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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.


Khand-e

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31 minutes ago, Donward said:

I just realized that the small arms thread has gotten to 303.

Sergeant_H.A._Marshall_of_the_Sniper_Sec

Edit: Awww. Wasted opportunity...

 

We didn't even get a single Meplat post on page 303

What is life?

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On 3/16/2017 at 4:36 PM, Donward said:

I just realized that the small arms thread has gotten to 303.

Sergeant_H.A._Marshall_of_the_Sniper_Sec

Edit: Awww. Wasted opportunity...

Indeed, Sadly I was in a VA Hospital. I had to console my Long Branch No4 with a fifth of Canadian whiskey. She is still a bit depressed.

I still have not informed her of current Canadian gun laws, lest she steal my phone, call all the people I know with Canuck ordinance, and commence a coup...

On 3/16/2017 at 5:08 PM, Khand-e said:

 

We didn't even get a single Meplat post on page 303

What is life?

Because I thought others would express their love for the .303".. Seems, I was mistaken.  While I was away, the standard fell.  (sad eyes).

On 3/16/2017 at 6:14 PM, Xlucine said:

He's saving it up for page 455

My Mk VI is ready. And loaded. (not that it's unloaded. Unless I shoot it, but then it's reloaded. so..Nevermind, Fix bayonets!)

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Speaking of British weapons, just what do we know about the L85A2?

For some reason I watched this video on the subject:
 

Now, I'm not going to ask you to watch the video too.  You don't have to, unless you really want to.  Matsimus' content is decidedly second-tier and this is no exception.  His history of the EM-1 and EM-2, is thoroughly conventional, which is to say wrong, and nothing else he brings up is new.  But the fact that he actually used the L85 in some capacity and seems to think highly of it was interesting.  So I checked ARRSE, and sure enough, the consensus there seems to be that the L85A2 is alright, although a few people who have actually used it still despise the revised model.

I didn't expect this.  Steve Raw's book on the SA80 program, which is really a must-read for anyone interested in the topic, has a pretty jaundiced view of the A2 upgrade program.  Raw exhaustively documents the MoD's obfuscations and outright lies about the SA80's performance, and saw no reason that they would stop lying with the introduction of the A2.  He was therefore quite dubious that the A2 upgrade program fixed everything.  Indeed, there were some complaints about the rifle in the 2003 Iraq war.  Also, some of the comparative trials between the SA80 and other rifles were obvioously rigged.  I do not even begin to entertain the idea that magazine changes are faster on the SA80 than on other rifles, as the MoD has claimed was the result in competitive trials, and neither does anyone else who has ever fired a rifle in a three gun match on a clock.  The L85's control layout is simply not conducive to fast magazine changes.

But apparently the squaddies think it's alright now.  Go figure.

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The 1970s: when all American men had luxurious porno-staches, all the women wore bell bottoms or hot pants, and all the cops carried submachine guns that fired twenty tiny bullets per second.

 

I've never actually been to the 1970s, but once I stared at a disco ball while doing tab of LSD and tried to watch Deep Throat.  I think that's close enough.

 

The drum design is interesting.  The receiver is hysterically overbuilt.

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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/18/interview-kori-phillips-program-officer-lsat-ctsas-part-2-ammunition-technical-discussion-contd/

 

It's interesting how the plastic case of LSAT helps seal the chamber - maybe the new UK/french 40mm enjoys a similar effect? I link the links; changing to a system that can feed from a link with no gap in it makes the shape much stronger, so you can get away with much softer material. It occurs to me that with the moveable chamber and single-direction feed and extraction, a system where the empty cases were pooped out the front of the gun would be easier (and looking at pictures of the 6.5mm carbine, it may already have such a system). This would work well with a bullpup setup, and the 4 row magazine mentioned in the NDIA briefing would alleviate the trouble of reloading a bullpup

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Via Tony's forum:

 

Quote

It is looking very likely that RDECOM / Textron's new CTSAS system in 6.5 mm will be the US Army's next small arms system. I can't say much more than this at this time, but someone familiar with the topic recently suggested that this is the US Army's preferred future option. The new low-drag EPR projectile developed for it is extremely efficient and lethal. There is no doubt that the CTSAS cartridge in 6.5 mm is vastly superior to 7.62 mm NATO ballistically as well as being much lighter in weight. What is not yet clear is whether the US Army will retain a smaller secondary caliber, also using a CT case, as carbine / PDW caliber - similar to what it had in WW2. The findings of the US Army's SAAC study should be released in April and then the path to overmatch should become clear. 

 

I know who the poster is, and he is someone in the industry. I can't confirm the veracity of the information, but if he's saying it then he has good reason to believe it.

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45 minutes ago, roguetechie said:

The one that's not financially or emotionally invested either way.

 

Though it could be close to death here and on its way to adoption up north.

 

AFAIK, neither source are invested emotionally or financially. Both actually think CT is not the most practical option.

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Well that makes it substantially more interesting...

 

My vote is for them to use your roided up 5.56 in CT format for the pdw!

 

That way we're at least covering our bases, especially while we wait for the rest of the world to catch up and start adopting nearly 3,000 joule ME individual weapons...

 

It's that transition period that I'm leery of where good tactics and discipline by opposing forces could potentially create a dangerous situation here and there.

 

Though honestly kori seems extraordinarily certain that they've adequately covered their bases.

 

I wonder how much any potential decision WRT the program being rushed has anything to do with technical intelligence coming out of Russia.

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I've been warning Tony of this failure mode for years. He never listened to me (although I was probably too late to begin with).

 

It's funny that recently he tried to trot out the bogeyman that my proposals would result in failure modes similar to his GPC... So what he's saying is that I'm right, and you need to push for proposals that are as light as possible because otherwise the powers that be will overdo it? I never understood why I was supposed to be so terrified of that "revelation". Anyway, I guess he still thinks of me as being on one side of the fence or the other.

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So, I remembered why CZ decided to stake in the pins and screws that hold together a fair number of components in the SP-01 Tactical. They really don't want you taking them out, because getting them back in requires a gunsmith. Fortunately for me, I am a gunsmith, so getting it back together was not really an issue. I did have to use the rare "double slave pin" trick to get the FCG back into position, though. I almost forgot how fiddly they are internally. But, after carrying that gun for eight years, it was overdo for a detailed strip.

 

On a related note, I discovered that CZ will sell most parts al la carte on their website. They even have a handy exploded diagram with links to each part that you can purchase separately. This was very valuable because I have a spare stripped CZ 75 frame laying around that I picked up back when I was in gunsmithing school.

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31 minutes ago, Ulric said:

So, I remembered why CZ decided to stake in the pins and screws that hold together a fair number of components in the SP-01 Tactical. They really don't want you taking them out, because getting them back in requires a gunsmith. Fortunately for me, I am a gunsmith, so getting it back together was not really an issue. I did have to use the rare "double slave pin" trick to get the FCG back into position, though. I almost forgot how fiddly they are internally. But, after carrying that gun for eight years, it was overdo for a detailed strip.

 

On a related note, I discovered that CZ will sell most parts al la carte on their website. They even have a handy exploded diagram with links to each part that you can purchase separately. This was very valuable because I have a spare stripped CZ 75 frame laying around that I picked up back when I was in gunsmithing school.

 

CZ is a great company with great service. Their new P-10 is a boring, overhyped Glock clone, but it's a good entry into the handgun market JUST because of the company it's attached to.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

CZ is a great company with great service. Their new P-10 is a boring, overhyped Glock clone, but it's a good entry into the handgun market JUST because of the company it's attached to.

 

 

 

I've been spoiled with handguns ever since getting an SP-01 Shadow, It's the only handgun out of the box that I couldn't find a single (even very minor) complaint about that I've ever gotten.

 

I got a version that still has the back competition raised sights, only with 2 tritium lit dots installed out of the factory, I can't even complain about that!

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