Sturgeon Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 This thread is for the discussion of the "general purpose cartridge" concept and the ongoing debate surrounding both it and current infantry weapons and their ammunition.First, Tony Williams' article on his "GPC" idea, and why it should be the next infantry small arms ammunition paradigm.Next, my rebuttal. And my second rebuttal. And my third rebuttal.Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T___A Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Is there any reason for his future is now™ cartridge Tony Williams doesn't propose flechettes or duplex rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Duplex doesn't really mix well with the sort of ballistic performance he wants. His objection to flechettes is related to terminal effectivess. Really, though, it's very obvious to me that Mr. Williams is stuck in the past in this matter. He suggested the GPC first in 1971, and it was not a new idea then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T___A Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 His objection to flechettes is related to terminal effectivess. Doesn't he realize flechettes are really deadly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I do not think Mr. Williams has the strongest grasp of the actual mechanics of terminal effectiveness. For one, his barrier penetration equation seems highly questionable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 Re-reading his article... There is so much wrong with it; some of which I haven't addressed before. I'm very tempted to do a straight fisking of it, but I don't know that anyone would read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yeah. When he starts out by extolling the 6.5 Arisaka right off the bat - I own one and actually LIKE the action - he loses a lot of credibility. I like the current "golf bag" approach. But I'm a Mark 1 civilian and am used to having one gun that does - more or less - one job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T___A Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yeah. When he starts out by extolling the 6.5 Arisaka right off the bat - I own one and actually LIKE the action - he loses a lot of credibility. I like the current "golf bag" approach. But I'm a Mark 1 civilian and am used to having one gun that does - more or less - one job. So according to him the Fedorov is the best assault rifle ever made then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yeah. When he starts out by extolling the 6.5 Arisaka right off the bat - I own one and actually LIKE the action - he loses a lot of credibility. I like the current "golf bag" approach. But I'm a Mark 1 civilian and am used to having one gun that does - more or less - one job. It's a fine cartridge in my opinion, but he doesn't really account for the relevant internal ballistics of the round. He assumes there's this big gulf in performance for a given peak pressure that's possible now that wasn't then, and that's really not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 By far the best document yet written in favor of the GPC concept. I guarantee you'll learn something reading it, too.Note: While hosted on his site, it was written by a Frenchman - Emeric Daniau - participating in France's current small arms research program, not Tony Williams. LoooSeR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 So according to him the Fedorov is the best assault rifle ever made then? Our country worked on ~6 mm unified catridge for a new GPMG, new Avtomat and new DMR before collapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Our country worked on ~6 mm unified catridge for a new GPMG, new Avtomat and new DMR before collapse The PRC never collapsed though. :smug: (Yes I know you're referring to the 6x48mm the USSR was designing, but smug posting to Olifant is our prime directive.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 My critique of Emeric's paper, for those interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Anyone care to mock up a 6.66X66.6mm* cartridge, convert it to Imperial and then use it to bamboozle the GPC-plebs? It's the satanic thing to do, after all... * Bonus points if it has a velocity of 666m/s, steel case or sulphur-rich propellant... Khand-e 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted November 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 In which Tony Williams declares the caliber debate "over", while mis-representing a PEO Soldier report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 *Cue Rambo* "Nothing is over!" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7VZ1IflkWCY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xthetenth Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Re-reading his article... There is so much wrong with it; some of which I haven't addressed before. I'm very tempted to do a straight fisking of it, but I don't know that anyone would read it. I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I would. I will have to put it off. I just fisked General Richard Scale's article in the Atlantic, so I'll need a cool down period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 At 274 comments and raging, I'd say there needs to be a cool down period. Although they mostly seem to come down to "I'm a veteran! You don't know, man! You weren't there!" and "I own and X and have had Y stoppages over Z period of time". Edit: The "mechanical engineer" Seburo who calls everyone "mall ninjas" and "fobbits" is the "best" reading of the lot. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/31/dissection-yet-another-m4-hit-piece/#disqus_thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 340+ comments now. I think it's the most sensational thing I've ever written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donward Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 340+ comments now. I think it's the most sensational thing I've ever written. Sensational in the very literal sense of the word. Alright, wading into those comments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.E. Watters Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Looks like it has finally topped out at 435. Sturgeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted May 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Uh-oh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 Oh haha 6.5mm CT. Just wait until someone gets around to inventing a composite case (or even better, a carbon composite case) to add to the acronym stew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xlucine Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Holy fuck, look at that "lethal impact velocity range" graph. That has made my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.