WoT v WT effort-thread

[Ulric]

Vert stab on Type 64, though and AMX 13 57, though. That should be hilarious.

[Donward]

Played the M7 two games now. It feels like complete shit. But maybe I'm pissed because I have been in two Tier 7 matches where I got derped in one shot from across the entire map by an OI and a Toaster.

 

Honestly, I see no reason to play it anymore when I have my Chaffee instead.

[Ulric]

I don't even want to play, because the new MM seems like its just going to put me at bottom tier all the time.

[Donward]

All the matches i've done through 1 chaffee, 2 m7, my M4E2 and T29 has had arty as top tier.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

 what changed with the MM?

[ApplesauceBandit]

3 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 what changed with the MM?

from what I recall, it tries for 3 top tier, 5 mid tier, and 7 bottom tier tanks per team.  If MM is flood with a certain tier, it can also go 5/10 or just straight up 15 tanks of the same tier.  I feel like other things may have happened too, but I would need to look at the patchnotes.

[Legiondude]

The 3/5/7, 5/10, and 15 flush templates were the highlights, but WG's video implied well over 10 major templates which MM will now pattern itself around to balance teams

[Donward]

10 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 what changed with the MM?

From what I've seen in those five games, all three top tiers have been an arty, light tank and TD.

 

I can imagine how interesting Tier X will be with all the shitter Uniscum 3-man platoons vs 3-man tomato squads.

 

 

[Ulric]

Ok, I did play some games, and I found a way to abuse the new MM even harder than before. The Valentine II and Pz B2 will almost always be in a very favorable match. MM always makes sure that the high tier tanks are outnumbered by low tier tanks, unless it has enough of a single tier to fill an entire battle. What this means is that most of the time you will only have 4-7 other tier 4 tanks to contend with, and 8-11 tier 3 tanks to club like the filthy pedo that you are.

 

This also means that pref 3s got a serious buff, because they will only have to fight a limited number of tier 4s, and when they are top tier, they will not have much competition from other tier 3s.

 

This doesn't really work to well with tier 8 pref, simply because of the power creep that has occurred at that tier. What I have found is that you will usually be in an entirely tier 8 match, or be facing tier 9s. I didn't play that many battles in tier 8 pref, though.

 

I will say this, the new system give MM another dimension in which it can completely fuck you. I have seen battles where the limited number of top tier tanks is rather lopsided in terms of tanks selection. One team got an arty and two light tanks for top, the other team got a T-54, a light tank, and an arty. Effectively, the T-54 was the only tier 9 tank in that battle, and he got to stomp on a bunch of 7s and 8s. This new system makes it dangerous to take in niche and one trick pony (read bad) tanks like the FV4005. Something that used to be fun to take in every once in a while is now a major hindrance for your team. So, if you want a good chance of winning tier 10 battles, you are almost always required to take some variety of try hard all rounder such as an E5, 113, hard top med, etc. Forget taking tier 10 arty, you are just depriving your team of one of the precious few slots that you need for your carry tanks.

[Donward]

 I refuse to play Tier 10. I hate it. I hate the players in Tier 10, I hate the game play, I hate the camping and stat padding and the level of chat discourse that resembles a howler monkey cage. If I could pay to never play another Tier 10 match, I would.

 

So my experience so far at Tier 8 and 9 is that I've played 13 or 14 games just getting the doubles in on my Tier 8s and Tier 9s. I've been put into only 3 Tier 10 matches. Two have had 1 or  2 top tier arty in them. The other had a 3-man E-100/JapHeavy/JgPnz100 platoon on our side and MM took a funny dump depriving us of an arty but giving the enemy team one arty.

 

Now previously, playing on the West Coast server, on any given night I'd be dragooned into playing in Tier 10 matches in my Tier 8s about 50-60 percent of the time. And my Tier 9s would be in a Tier 10 match about 3/4s of the time.

 

If this is how the MM behaves the rest of the time, I'm happy because I absolutely LOATHE Tier 10 play. Have all the Tier 10 shitters play 15 vs 15 matches and leave the rest of us alone.

 

Another observation is that the rechargeable consumable for med, repair and fire extinguishers is really going to help better players immeasurably since there is only a 90 second recharge time. I've taken advantage of this multiple times already and I have no compunction about jamming the repair or heal button whenever now.

[Bronezhilet]

I wonder how the new MM will turn out on the EU server, which has a much bigger population.

[Donward]

Let it be known.

 

Arty is now officially an awesome class and fun to play. 

[Bronezhilet]

27 minutes ago, Donward said:

Let it be known.

 

Arty is now officially an awesome class and fun to play. 

Oh yeah I agree. I've played it a bunch on the test server, where it was a whole load of fun actually. There's a bit more thinking involved other than "Lets click the most exposed tank", and I like that.

 

I'm still not going to play it much though, since no arta isn't allowed in platoons to "encourage teamplay". And I have my arta missions done already, so I don't need to play arty anyway.

[Donward]

Just now, Bronezhilet said:

Oh yeah I agree. I've played it a bunch on the test server, where it was a whole load of fun actually. There's a bit more thinking involved other than "Lets click the most exposed tank", and I like that.

 

I'm still not going to play it much though, since no arta isn't allowed in platoons to "encourage teamplay". And I have my arta missions done already, so I don't need to play arty anyway.

Yeah. I just play arty now to do the missions myself. That and a whole healthy helping of self hatred and frustration where you prayed that RNGesus would guide your shot towards whoever was stupid enough to park in known arty kill spots long enough for you to hover the cursor over him and wait for the aiming circle to get slower in an agonizingly long manner.

 

I played my GwPanther and Hummel a lot the last two days to get a feel for how it "used" to be in order to prepare for today. 

 

It is fun now to be able to switch back and forth across the map and engage targets. I'm more willing to take risks in order to sling a shot at a fleeting target. Furthermore, I am not consigned to just watching one side of the map, hoping an enemy is stupid enough to pop his head out while I'm keeping an eye on the other and debating whether to make the 30-45 second commitment to aim over there, wait for the reticle bloom to go away and aim and fire.

 

Got three missions done today in 8 games with my arty.

[Donward]

Oh yeah! Before I forget.

 

Counter battery is now officially a thing again!

[Bronezhilet]

10 minutes ago, Donward said:

Yeah. I just play arty now to do the missions myself. That and a whole healthy helping of self hatred and frustration where you prayed that RNGesus would guide your shot towards whoever was stupid enough to park in known arty kill spots long enough for you to hover the cursor over him and wait for the aiming circle to get slower in an agonizingly long manner.

 

I played my GwPanther and Hummel a lot the last two days to get a feel for how it "used" to be in order to prepare for today. 

 

It is fun now to be able to switch back and forth across the map and engage targets. I'm more willing to take risks in order to sling a shot at a fleeting target. Furthermore, I am not consigned to just watching one side of the map, hoping an enemy is stupid enough to pop his head out while I'm keeping an eye on the other and debating whether to make the 30-45 second commitment to aim over there, wait for the reticle bloom to go away and aim and fire.

 

Got three missions done today in 8 games with my arty.

Yeah I like that they changed arty from a pure RNG-based class to a more predictable class. And this goes for both sides. When you're playing a normal tank you can kinda predict how much damage you're going to take when engaging an enemy. But arty was always the "well I have no idea what that's going to do to me"-factor. It could oneshot me, but it could also do nothing to me. Now I can predict how much stun I am going to get, and the damage itself is manageable.

And for arty itself it too isn't the "all or nothing"-class anymore. Who cares if I'm going to miss by a few meters, I'm still going to stun him for quite some time. Sure, a direct hit would stun him for longer, but only for a few seconds longer.

 

4 minutes ago, Donward said:

Oh yeah! Before I forget.

 

Counter battery is now officially a thing again!

Huh interesting, I thought that would be less of a thing, because the damage and pen got nerfed. On the test server I got countered a few times, but I survived because the enemy didn't pen me and didn't have enough splash to splash-kill me.

Or maybe he missed me by a mile and still did damage, I dunno. I thought counter-arty would be completely gone now since I expected you'd need two shots to kill arty instead of one.

[Donward]

4 minutes ago, Bronezhilet said:

 

Huh interesting, I thought that would be less of a thing, because the damage and pen got nerfed. On the test server I got countered a few times, but I survived because the enemy didn't pen me and didn't have enough splash to splash-kill me.

Or maybe he missed me by a mile and still did damage, I dunno. I thought counter-arty would be completely gone now since I expected you'd need two shots to kill arty instead of one.

 

I just got through a couple games where counter battery was a thing against us and I decided to give it a whirl back.

 

The issue before is that arty had SUCH  a long load time, it just didn't make sense to go hunting for enemy arty who may or may not be in that particular bush. Not when you can be doing 1,000 hitpoints a damage a shot by farming the idiot Tiger 2 player camping out in the open or LOL one-shotting some open top TD. Also, all of the time spent counter arty before was so - what? - you could try to take out a guy that might be missing all of his shots too?

 

Honor among thieves. Honor among thieves.

 

Now, especially if there are 3 arty on each side, if you're flinging a shot out every 20 seconds, it is worth prospecting or waiting for the tell tale tracer to go out. Sure, you're only doing 100 damage if you miss, but it's still a thing.

 

Anyway, my experience so far on Day 1. The meta might change as people get bored with trying the new thing.

[Bronezhilet]

3 minutes ago, Donward said:

 

I just got through a couple games where counter battery was a thing against us and I decided to give it a whirl back.

 

The issue before is that arty had SUCH  a long load time, it just didn't make sense to go hunting for enemy arty who may or may not be in that particular bush. Not when you can be doing 1,000 hitpoints a damage a shot by farming the idiot Tiger 2 player camping out in the open or LOL one-shotting some open top TD. Also, all of the time spent counter arty before was so - what? - you could try to take out a guy that might be missing all of his shots too?

 

Honor among thieves. Honor among thieves.

 

Now, especially if there are 3 arty on each side, if you're flinging a shot out every 20 seconds, it is worth prospecting or waiting for the tell tale tracer to go out. Sure, you're only doing 100 damage if you miss, but it's still a thing.

 

Anyway, my experience so far on Day 1. The meta might change as people get bored with trying the new thing.

Good point, I only played the tier 10 arties on the test server. These still had a reload time of 40 seconds or something. And I think that with that reload you're better off helping your team by stunning people.

 

I wonder how light meta is going to change. Looking at the stats, they got ruined. Shit, half of the tier 8 lights have better viewrange than half of the tier 10 lights. 

[Donward]

1 minute ago, Bronezhilet said:

Good point, I only played the tier 10 arties on the test server. These still had a reload time of 40 seconds or something. And I think that with that reload you're better off helping your team by stunning people.

 

I wonder how light meta is going to change. Looking at the stats, they got ruined. Shit, half of the tier 8 lights have better viewrange than half of the tier 10 lights. 

I played my Chaffee, won, and it feels the same. The M7 is ruined and as we all know, it's not a light. Played the Kraut Tier 9 Ru 251 and was laughably top tier with 2 other light tanks. Got raped by a platoon of Tier 9 bulldogs on Himmelsdorf Encounter. That's all the light tanks I've played today.

[Sturgeon]

Having the AMX-13-90 be replaced by the BC12t feels like a slap in the face with a giant dong. What am I supposed to do with 170 damage and 4 shells in the mag at tier 8?

 

I seriously would rather be in the Firefly, even with the same MM.

[Bronezhilet]

Just now, Donward said:

I played my Chaffee, won, and it feels the same. The M7 is ruined and as we all know, it's not a light. Played the Kraut Tier 9 Ru 251 and was laughably top tier with 2 other light tanks. Got raped by a platoon of Tier 9 bulldogs on Himmelsdorf Encounter. That's all the light tanks I've played today.

I've heard that the premium lights are super OP right now since they weren't touched, and looking at tanks.gg it really does look like it. The Blackdog has better DPM and arguably a better gun than all other tier 8 lights.

 

Just now, Sturgeon said:

Having the AMX-13-90 be replaced by the BC12t feels like a slap in the face with a giant dong. What am I supposed to do with 170 damage and 4 shells in the mag at tier 8?

 

I seriously would rather be in the Firefly, even with the same MM.

Go scout for the mediums with 390 meter viewrange in your tank with 380 meter viewrange, what else?

[Bronezhilet]

I just went and double checked whether there actually were tier 8 mediums with 390 viewrange. And of course there were.

 

There are also tier 8 mediums with 400 meter viewrange, which is better than some fucking tier 10 lights. What the fuck Wargaming. "We don't want lights to act like mediums, but who the fuck cares if mediums are better at spotting than lights?".

[Sturgeon]

*sigh*

At least the M7 appears to have been buffed (it can mount stabilizers and gets the otm camo thingie now). And the new Chaffee MM should make it betterish.

Also, if you have an M7 in your garage, this patch demounted all your equipment for you. Happened to some other tanks, too.

[Donward]

14 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

Having the AMX-13-90 be replaced by the BC12t feels like a slap in the face with a giant dong. What am I supposed to do with 170 damage and 4 shells in the mag at tier 8?

 

I seriously would rather be in the Firefly, even with the same MM.

I was actually given a BC12t for some reason (I have the Tier 9 BC25t AP so maybe that's why).

 

In their graciousness, they even threw in three 50 percent trained crewmembers. Fuck if I'm spending a 1.5 million credits to buy modules, expendibles, retrain the crew and buy ammo for that fucking turd.

 

On the other hand, it is a free garage slot. I'll be selling it when I make sure there isn't any special missions planned for it coming up. And even then I might not participate.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Bronezhilet said:

I've heard that the premium lights are super OP right now since they weren't touched, and looking at tanks.gg it really does look like it. The Blackdog has better DPM and arguably a better gun than all other tier 8 lights.

 

Go scout for the mediums with 390 meter viewrange in your tank with 380 meter viewrange, what else?

 

Got 4 arty missions done today. I'll be playing some lights before going to bed. Will see if the experience doesn't punch my winrate that I improved on today right square in the nuts.

[Donward]

1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

*sigh*

At least the M7 appears to have been buffed (it can mount stabilizers and gets the otm camo thingie now). And the new Chaffee MM should make it betterish.

Also, if you have an M7 in your garage, this patch demounted all your equipment for you. Happened to some other tanks, too.

You think the m7 is buffed? I'm this close to selling it. Will be giving it one more go.

 

And there are a bunch of tanks that got the equipment demounted. Ru251. VK2801. My Hummel and GWpanther. The BC25t ap that I mentioned, a few others. Hell, I had to put my decals and camo back on.

 

It looks like all the arty and all the lights had this happen.

 

Oh, I also got a "free" German kraut light called the HWK 12. With a shit 50 percent crew and no equipment. So that's two garage slots for free this patch.