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SH_MM last won the day on April 25

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  1. SH_MM

    General AFV Thread

    Austrian Pandur Evo being manufactured: http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2913194/
  2. SH_MM

    The Leopard 2 Thread

    Turret down position.
  3. SH_MM

    Tanks guns and ammunition.

    Targets for the 30 mm APFSDS ammunition from Rheinmetall representing the BMP-3. Range 2,000 m, but the official effective combat range of the Puma's MK 30-2/ABM is listed as 3,000 metres. The penetrator is optimized to remain intact after penetrating spaced armor arrays (which older types of medium calibre ammo couldn't do) and to create spall. In an older presentation, a 30 mm APFSDS managed to penetrated 15 mm HHA and 30 mm RHA in a spaced configuration at 45° slope and 2,000 metres distance. The official armor penetration of the APFSDS-T PMC 287 is listed as 106 mm line-of-sight against a 60° sloped plate at a range of 1,000 m in Rheinmetall's flyers. The APFSDS-T PMC 359 round (with ECL instead of EL propellant) is listed with the same penetration value.
  4. SH_MM

    Fucking NERA everywhere

    NERA & ERA from South-Africa Ingwe ATGM being tested against armor
  5. One option considered for the air defence system is to use the Puma turret with minor modifications. The Puma turret has been offered on the Boxer chassis since 2010, so it is an existing and proven solution with low development effort. I don't know about the Kongsberg system; I'd assume that it is based on (V)SHORAD missiles, because they probably wouldn't want to compete against KMW's and Rheinmetall's turret offerings. Kongsberg has developed a computerized controll system for (V)SHORAD missiles, which might encompass their offer: https://www.kongsberg.com/en/kds/products/groundbasedairdefencesystems/shorad-vshorad/ Aside of the Skyranger turret, Rheinmetall seems to also offer the MPCS turret developed in cooperation with MBDA, which was first presented at ILA 2016. At least some of Rheinmetall's investor presentations use a photo of the MPCS turret for the NNBS program. As far as I know the Qualified Air Defence is part of the NNBS.
  6. Trophy on the Abrams weighs 2.2 tons. There definetly is something fishy with the proclaimed weight of Trophy for the Merkava 4.
  7. SH_MM

    Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!

    According to the following drawing, the gun mantlet armor is actually a lot thinner, because the 420 mm thickness are also the trunnion of the main gun! The Type 90 tank seems to be rather poorly protected.
  8. SH_MM

    105x617 DM53 APFSDS-T?

    I cannot remember either. However in another forum, where somebody posted all forums of his visit, he claimed that this was the 105 mm DM53.
  9. SH_MM

    Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!

    (posted by Wiedzmin on the Tank-Net) The Challenger 1 has enough armor to stop a 125 mm APFSDS at about 1,000 metres distance. Given that the British estimated a penetration performance of 475 mm steel armor at 0 metres for a 125 mm tungsten-cored APFSDS round, it seems likely that the Challenger 1 has 400-450 mm protection vs KE; this also would match the statement that the Challenger 1 has protection roughly equal to a T-64BV, T-72AV or T-80BV tank. The Challenger 2 design - not necessarily identical to the production model - at some point of time was to have improved hull armor; there is no mention of upgraded turret armor (at that time). That leads to: XM1 Abrams - resists 115 mm APFSDS at 800 - 1,200 metres (official requirement), penetrated by 125 mm APFSDS even at 4,000 metres (British claims) Leopard 2 - turret resists 115 mm APFSDS at 1,000 metres & 125 mm APFSDS at 1,500 metres (Swiss estimates) Challenger 1 - turret resists 125 mm APFSDS at 1,000 metres, hull weaker Challenger 2 - turret and hull resist 125 mm APFSDS at 1,000 metres (design specifications) Chieftain with Stillbrew - turret resists 105 mm APFSDS point blank and 120 mm APFSDS at 1,000 metres
  10. SH_MM

    105x617 DM53 APFSDS-T?

    Most of the German 105 mm APFSDS ammunition was made by Diehl BGT Defence rather than Rheinmetall; apparently Diehl produced the 105 mm DM13 APDS (licence production of a British design), the 105 mm DM23 APFSDS (licenced copy of the Israeli M111 "Hetz"), the 105 mm DM33 APFSDS (IMI M413) and the 105 mm DM63 (IMI M426). The 105 mm DM43 APFSDS was made by Rheinmetall however. I don't know who made the 105 mm DM53, maybe it never entered full service and was skipped like the 120 mm DM43 APFSDS. There is a projectile claimed to be from a 105 mm DM53 round on display in a German museum.
  11. SH_MM

    General AFV Thread

    I am fairly certain the quoted contract price for the Estonian CV90s is wrong. 625,000 Euro might be the cost per CV90 hull.
  12. SH_MM

    Explosive Reactive Armor

    It is ERA with limited exploding area. I.e. there are documents suggesting using small pellets of explosives inside another elastic material (such as rubber or GFRP). Only one or two pellets will explode during penetration, limiting the destroyed area (in contrast to blowing up a complete ERA tile).
  13. SH_MM

    The Leopard 2 Thread

    I posted about this on another forum quite a while ago, so you may already know this: The company FWH manufactures cast armor parts for German AFVs. It offers three quality classes. Quality class "P" with a hardness of 350 to 380 on the Brinell scale was used for the Leopard 2 to 2A3 (I suppose the early batches of 2A4 tanks also received casts parts of the same quality class). Quality class "Q" with a hardness of 380 to 420 HB was used on the Leopard 2A4, 2A5 and the 2A6 models for Greece and Spain. The quality class "R" with a hardness of 480 to 520 HB is used for the Puma and Boxer. Most German combat vehicles make use of welded armor, so this info is rather meager. However the Boxer uses 45 cast armor parts made by FWH with a size of up tp 1,600 mm. On the Leopard 2 cast armor elements might be used for the gun mount, the mounting system for the suspension elements and maybe parts of the hatches. But this information gives a general idea about what steel was used for this tank and how protection was improved from the earlier models to the later Leopard 2A4 batches and the following models. Welding is done austenitic for steel elements of quality class "P" and ferritic for the quality classes "Q" and "R". There is a document suggesting that the welded steel plates for the Leopard 2's basic construction were delivered by the Stahlwerk Geisweld. The steel is branded "HFX 130" and has a thickness ranging between 5 and 45 mm depending on location. Unfortunately there is no HFX 130 steel being advertised anymore. An interessting fact is that the Stahlwerk Geisweld is nowadays owned by Schmolz und Birkenbach, which also owns the Swiss company SteelTec. While Stahlwerk Geisweld seems to be focused on manufacturing stainless steel for industry applications, SteelTec offers a product called "HSX 130". Given that the "HF" stands for "hochfest" (German for "high strength") and "HS" also stands for "high strength", both of these steel alloys might be the same. HSX 130 steel is offered with a maximum thickness of 45 mm (like shown in the German document mentioning HFX 130) and has a hardness of 395 HB on average (tensile strength ranges from 1,250 to 1,400 N/mm². This might be used on the Leopard 2, given that flyers from Krauss-Maffei talked about the high quality steel used for the tank. ___ German Leopard 2A6MA2 being handed over to the Netherlands:
  14. SH_MM

    Tanks guns and ammunition.

    DE 20 2016 104 939 U1 is a patent from Rheinmetall about the 130 mm smoothbore gun. In particular the patent is about a new gun with greater calibre designed to fit into the space of an already existing gun system such as the 120 mm smoothbore gun. The idea is that the design results in the room for the ammo storage being the limiting factor for gun upgrades. From the claims: existing gun must be swappable/replaceable new gun has a larger calibre the maximum catridge diameter must be nearly the same (not to be confused with the calibre of the projectile) the chamber of the new gun is longer how much of the chamber is used is depending on the ammunition type and propellant charge (I suggest that might mean that HE ammo has shorter catridges?) the new gun has a longer recoil path the new gun is designed for a MBT 130 mm gun details. 120 mm and 130 mm chamber comparison. So it seems that it is possible to upgrade the Leopard 2 with the 130 mm smoothbore gun, but it would require an autoloader and a new storage rack for the longer catridges.