Mighty_Zuk

And what did I ever do to deserve such hostility?

http://www.janes.com/article/80187/australia-selects-spike-lr2
 
Australia chooses the Spike LR2 missile for the Boxer CRV and becomes the 2nd export customer of the missile.

Sounds great. Doesn't work. A guy goes on a rampage on the street. Should you shoot him right away before he can do any damage, or only after he stabbed you 3 times in the face, 12 times in the chest, and performed a pagan ritual on your body?
 
 
 
How do you think Gaza became what it is today? A few settlements were shut down, their residents compensated and relocated, all their property was given for free to Gazans (agricultural equipment, technology, and the necessary infrastructure to create and run a product-centric economy as a kickstart), and they became an independent, autonomous region 100% free of Israelis. Long story short they messed it all up, destroyed all the infrastructure they were given almost immediately, elected a terrorist organization for a government, cancelled all further elections, started several wars, declared themselves uninhabitable by 2020-ish, and now they also cut off the only line of supplies they had.
 
Yeah, I don't think disbanding settlements in unilateral moves, i.e outside any agreements, is going to work either.
 
 
Been there, done that. Anything else?
 
 
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's illegal. By all means, it is very much legal. 
But I want to hear you out on this. What could the Palestinians benefit from the removal of the blockade?
 
 
Not as easy as sitting comfortably at home and clicking away on your keyboard some nonsense commentary about how those who act, should behave. Why don't you pick up a rifle, go to a conflict zone, finish a tour, and only then brag about how humane you are.
 

Sounds great. Doesn't work. A guy goes on a rampage on the street. Should you shoot him right away before he can do any damage, or only after he stabbed you 3 times in the face, 12 times in the chest, and performed a pagan ritual on your body?
 
 
 
How do you think Gaza became what it is today? A few settlements were shut down, their residents compensated and relocated, all their property was given for free to Gazans (agricultural equipment, technology, and the necessary infrastructure to create and run a product-centric economy as a kickstart), and they became an independent, autonomous region 100% free of Israelis. Long story short they messed it all up, destroyed all the infrastructure they were given almost immediately, elected a terrorist organization for a government, cancelled all further elections, started several wars, declared themselves uninhabitable by 2020-ish, and now they also cut off the only line of supplies they had.
 
Yeah, I don't think disbanding settlements in unilateral moves, i.e outside any agreements, is going to work either.
 
 
Been there, done that. Anything else?
 
 
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's illegal. By all means, it is very much legal. 
But I want to hear you out on this. What could the Palestinians benefit from the removal of the blockade?
 
 
Not as easy as sitting comfortably at home and clicking away on your keyboard some nonsense commentary about how those who act, should behave. Why don't you pick up a rifle, go to a conflict zone, finish a tour, and only then brag about how humane you are.
 

Because sometimes you have to act even though you know this is what your adversary wants.
This has been a lose-lose situation for Israel from the very beginning. There was no possible way to turn this around.
 
First, it's important to understand in what cases the IDF uses the following methods:
1)Arrest.
2)Tear gas.
3)Rubber bullets.
4)Water cannons.
5)Live ammo to maim.
6)Live ammo to kill.
 
=====================================================================
 
1)Ideally, every infiltration attempt is handled by quick response units who are geared to make an arrest, even if the infiltrator is armed. In most cases they are armed, albeit usually not for the intent of killing, but that's a topic for another debate. BUT, you cannot make an arrest when there are another 20 people nearby who can assault the soldiers. This is why throughout these protests, the number of arrests has been very low. I think only 2 or 3 incidents.
 
2)Tear gas is used at any range within the buffer zone. 
 
3)Rubber bullets are very limited in their range. These sand berms are located maybe 20-30 meters from the fence. Many times going to several hundred meters. Thus normally they would only be effective against people who are already at the fence. However, they almost never go to the fence alone. These are coordinated efforts of usually dozens of men. Firing rubber on them becomes ineffective as the rate of fire is very low, and their lethality is substantially increased. When you only have a couple sharpshooters in a position and the border is rushed by 50-something people, you may not have the time to load 50 rubber bullets before it turns into a life threatening event. Thus although they are used, they are not enough in many cases.
 
 
4)Range is even more limited, and they're used almost exclusively to put out tire fires. 
 
5)Used against those who enter too deep into the buffer zone, which used to be 300m but was reduced to 100m to reduce casualties, and those who pose a high threat to soldiers - Slingshots, firebombs (aka molotovs), IED kites. 
 
6)Used only against those who are breaching the fence, those who already breached, and those who pose an immediate threat - any sort of firearm, explosive devices (IEDs, pipe bombs, grenades) etc.
 
=====================================================================
 
There's also the question of why shoot to kill infiltrators anyway instead of just sending quick reaction forces to try and catch them. The answer to that would be.... Google maps. 
 
This one is from 2014 and shows a simple map of tunnels coming out from the Gaza strip, but it illustrates my point fairly well:
 
There are villages, towns, and cities located so close to the Gaza strip that you could get to them from the fence in just a couple minutes' walk. Sa'ad in this picture less so, but Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, and the largest of them Sderot, a city of 25,000 people, are only less than a kilometer from the Gaza border. It's even frequent for houses in Sderot to be hit with machine gun fire. When you have population centers about half a mile away from the border, and a quarter of a mile from your position, you don't take risks.
 
Even a single man carrying a knife that gets past the border fence, past the soldiers, and into one of these, could cause a massacre. Most men, however, who tried to infiltrate, weren't holding kitchen knives. They were packing firearms and grenades.
 
So when Hamas say they're going to breach the border and murder as many people as they can, well even if it's just propaganda talk to rile up the people, you gotta take them seriously, because even if they do live up to their word, they don't lose. It's still a victory for them because they need not only international support, but inner support. It's why they also decided to take the hit and admit 50 of the dead were theirs - They need to show the locals they're men of actions, whether or not that number is real or made up. And that sort of action is not viewed nicely in Israel.
 
=====================================================================
 
Some cases were reported and went viral, of fire that seemed grossly unjustified, such as the man running with a tire about a month ago, or more recently the doctor that was shot in the leg (I think that even though he was very close to the fence, it's unjustified as doctors are frequently brought there to drag away the injured). But in the end the guys holding these rifles are just normal human beings, and whose judgement and circumstances we do not know. My take from this is that overall there needs to be some more transparency, that some incidents probably should have been avoided entirely, but in a very general sense I think the IDF handled it in the closest way to optimal that it could, given its circumstances.
 
 
@roguetechie My sincerest apologies for writing this. Just try to ignore it, please.

Because sometimes you have to act even though you know this is what your adversary wants.
This has been a lose-lose situation for Israel from the very beginning. There was no possible way to turn this around.
 
First, it's important to understand in what cases the IDF uses the following methods:
1)Arrest.
2)Tear gas.
3)Rubber bullets.
4)Water cannons.
5)Live ammo to maim.
6)Live ammo to kill.
 
=====================================================================
 
1)Ideally, every infiltration attempt is handled by quick response units who are geared to make an arrest, even if the infiltrator is armed. In most cases they are armed, albeit usually not for the intent of killing, but that's a topic for another debate. BUT, you cannot make an arrest when there are another 20 people nearby who can assault the soldiers. This is why throughout these protests, the number of arrests has been very low. I think only 2 or 3 incidents.
 
2)Tear gas is used at any range within the buffer zone. 
 
3)Rubber bullets are very limited in their range. These sand berms are located maybe 20-30 meters from the fence. Many times going to several hundred meters. Thus normally they would only be effective against people who are already at the fence. However, they almost never go to the fence alone. These are coordinated efforts of usually dozens of men. Firing rubber on them becomes ineffective as the rate of fire is very low, and their lethality is substantially increased. When you only have a couple sharpshooters in a position and the border is rushed by 50-something people, you may not have the time to load 50 rubber bullets before it turns into a life threatening event. Thus although they are used, they are not enough in many cases.
 
 
4)Range is even more limited, and they're used almost exclusively to put out tire fires. 
 
5)Used against those who enter too deep into the buffer zone, which used to be 300m but was reduced to 100m to reduce casualties, and those who pose a high threat to soldiers - Slingshots, firebombs (aka molotovs), IED kites. 
 
6)Used only against those who are breaching the fence, those who already breached, and those who pose an immediate threat - any sort of firearm, explosive devices (IEDs, pipe bombs, grenades) etc.
 
=====================================================================
 
There's also the question of why shoot to kill infiltrators anyway instead of just sending quick reaction forces to try and catch them. The answer to that would be.... Google maps. 
 
This one is from 2014 and shows a simple map of tunnels coming out from the Gaza strip, but it illustrates my point fairly well:
 
There are villages, towns, and cities located so close to the Gaza strip that you could get to them from the fence in just a couple minutes' walk. Sa'ad in this picture less so, but Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, and the largest of them Sderot, a city of 25,000 people, are only less than a kilometer from the Gaza border. It's even frequent for houses in Sderot to be hit with machine gun fire. When you have population centers about half a mile away from the border, and a quarter of a mile from your position, you don't take risks.
 
Even a single man carrying a knife that gets past the border fence, past the soldiers, and into one of these, could cause a massacre. Most men, however, who tried to infiltrate, weren't holding kitchen knives. They were packing firearms and grenades.
 
So when Hamas say they're going to breach the border and murder as many people as they can, well even if it's just propaganda talk to rile up the people, you gotta take them seriously, because even if they do live up to their word, they don't lose. It's still a victory for them because they need not only international support, but inner support. It's why they also decided to take the hit and admit 50 of the dead were theirs - They need to show the locals they're men of actions, whether or not that number is real or made up. And that sort of action is not viewed nicely in Israel.
 
=====================================================================
 
Some cases were reported and went viral, of fire that seemed grossly unjustified, such as the man running with a tire about a month ago, or more recently the doctor that was shot in the leg (I think that even though he was very close to the fence, it's unjustified as doctors are frequently brought there to drag away the injured). But in the end the guys holding these rifles are just normal human beings, and whose judgement and circumstances we do not know. My take from this is that overall there needs to be some more transparency, that some incidents probably should have been avoided entirely, but in a very general sense I think the IDF handled it in the closest way to optimal that it could, given its circumstances.
 
 
@roguetechie My sincerest apologies for writing this. Just try to ignore it, please.

Mantis 4x4 ATV in the under 9 ton category:
 

 
 
EDIT: To be fully unveiled in Eurosatory (mid-June).

Because sometimes you have to act even though you know this is what your adversary wants.
This has been a lose-lose situation for Israel from the very beginning. There was no possible way to turn this around.
 
First, it's important to understand in what cases the IDF uses the following methods:
1)Arrest.
2)Tear gas.
3)Rubber bullets.
4)Water cannons.
5)Live ammo to maim.
6)Live ammo to kill.
 
=====================================================================
 
1)Ideally, every infiltration attempt is handled by quick response units who are geared to make an arrest, even if the infiltrator is armed. In most cases they are armed, albeit usually not for the intent of killing, but that's a topic for another debate. BUT, you cannot make an arrest when there are another 20 people nearby who can assault the soldiers. This is why throughout these protests, the number of arrests has been very low. I think only 2 or 3 incidents.
 
2)Tear gas is used at any range within the buffer zone. 
 
3)Rubber bullets are very limited in their range. These sand berms are located maybe 20-30 meters from the fence. Many times going to several hundred meters. Thus normally they would only be effective against people who are already at the fence. However, they almost never go to the fence alone. These are coordinated efforts of usually dozens of men. Firing rubber on them becomes ineffective as the rate of fire is very low, and their lethality is substantially increased. When you only have a couple sharpshooters in a position and the border is rushed by 50-something people, you may not have the time to load 50 rubber bullets before it turns into a life threatening event. Thus although they are used, they are not enough in many cases.
 
 
4)Range is even more limited, and they're used almost exclusively to put out tire fires. 
 
5)Used against those who enter too deep into the buffer zone, which used to be 300m but was reduced to 100m to reduce casualties, and those who pose a high threat to soldiers - Slingshots, firebombs (aka molotovs), IED kites. 
 
6)Used only against those who are breaching the fence, those who already breached, and those who pose an immediate threat - any sort of firearm, explosive devices (IEDs, pipe bombs, grenades) etc.
 
=====================================================================
 
There's also the question of why shoot to kill infiltrators anyway instead of just sending quick reaction forces to try and catch them. The answer to that would be.... Google maps. 
 
This one is from 2014 and shows a simple map of tunnels coming out from the Gaza strip, but it illustrates my point fairly well:
 
There are villages, towns, and cities located so close to the Gaza strip that you could get to them from the fence in just a couple minutes' walk. Sa'ad in this picture less so, but Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, and the largest of them Sderot, a city of 25,000 people, are only less than a kilometer from the Gaza border. It's even frequent for houses in Sderot to be hit with machine gun fire. When you have population centers about half a mile away from the border, and a quarter of a mile from your position, you don't take risks.
 
Even a single man carrying a knife that gets past the border fence, past the soldiers, and into one of these, could cause a massacre. Most men, however, who tried to infiltrate, weren't holding kitchen knives. They were packing firearms and grenades.
 
So when Hamas say they're going to breach the border and murder as many people as they can, well even if it's just propaganda talk to rile up the people, you gotta take them seriously, because even if they do live up to their word, they don't lose. It's still a victory for them because they need not only international support, but inner support. It's why they also decided to take the hit and admit 50 of the dead were theirs - They need to show the locals they're men of actions, whether or not that number is real or made up. And that sort of action is not viewed nicely in Israel.
 
=====================================================================
 
Some cases were reported and went viral, of fire that seemed grossly unjustified, such as the man running with a tire about a month ago, or more recently the doctor that was shot in the leg (I think that even though he was very close to the fence, it's unjustified as doctors are frequently brought there to drag away the injured). But in the end the guys holding these rifles are just normal human beings, and whose judgement and circumstances we do not know. My take from this is that overall there needs to be some more transparency, that some incidents probably should have been avoided entirely, but in a very general sense I think the IDF handled it in the closest way to optimal that it could, given its circumstances.
 
 
@roguetechie My sincerest apologies for writing this. Just try to ignore it, please.

Because sometimes you have to act even though you know this is what your adversary wants.
This has been a lose-lose situation for Israel from the very beginning. There was no possible way to turn this around.
 
First, it's important to understand in what cases the IDF uses the following methods:
1)Arrest.
2)Tear gas.
3)Rubber bullets.
4)Water cannons.
5)Live ammo to maim.
6)Live ammo to kill.
 
=====================================================================
 
1)Ideally, every infiltration attempt is handled by quick response units who are geared to make an arrest, even if the infiltrator is armed. In most cases they are armed, albeit usually not for the intent of killing, but that's a topic for another debate. BUT, you cannot make an arrest when there are another 20 people nearby who can assault the soldiers. This is why throughout these protests, the number of arrests has been very low. I think only 2 or 3 incidents.
 
2)Tear gas is used at any range within the buffer zone. 
 
3)Rubber bullets are very limited in their range. These sand berms are located maybe 20-30 meters from the fence. Many times going to several hundred meters. Thus normally they would only be effective against people who are already at the fence. However, they almost never go to the fence alone. These are coordinated efforts of usually dozens of men. Firing rubber on them becomes ineffective as the rate of fire is very low, and their lethality is substantially increased. When you only have a couple sharpshooters in a position and the border is rushed by 50-something people, you may not have the time to load 50 rubber bullets before it turns into a life threatening event. Thus although they are used, they are not enough in many cases.
 
 
4)Range is even more limited, and they're used almost exclusively to put out tire fires. 
 
5)Used against those who enter too deep into the buffer zone, which used to be 300m but was reduced to 100m to reduce casualties, and those who pose a high threat to soldiers - Slingshots, firebombs (aka molotovs), IED kites. 
 
6)Used only against those who are breaching the fence, those who already breached, and those who pose an immediate threat - any sort of firearm, explosive devices (IEDs, pipe bombs, grenades) etc.
 
=====================================================================
 
There's also the question of why shoot to kill infiltrators anyway instead of just sending quick reaction forces to try and catch them. The answer to that would be.... Google maps. 
 
This one is from 2014 and shows a simple map of tunnels coming out from the Gaza strip, but it illustrates my point fairly well:
 
There are villages, towns, and cities located so close to the Gaza strip that you could get to them from the fence in just a couple minutes' walk. Sa'ad in this picture less so, but Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, and the largest of them Sderot, a city of 25,000 people, are only less than a kilometer from the Gaza border. It's even frequent for houses in Sderot to be hit with machine gun fire. When you have population centers about half a mile away from the border, and a quarter of a mile from your position, you don't take risks.
 
Even a single man carrying a knife that gets past the border fence, past the soldiers, and into one of these, could cause a massacre. Most men, however, who tried to infiltrate, weren't holding kitchen knives. They were packing firearms and grenades.
 
So when Hamas say they're going to breach the border and murder as many people as they can, well even if it's just propaganda talk to rile up the people, you gotta take them seriously, because even if they do live up to their word, they don't lose. It's still a victory for them because they need not only international support, but inner support. It's why they also decided to take the hit and admit 50 of the dead were theirs - They need to show the locals they're men of actions, whether or not that number is real or made up. And that sort of action is not viewed nicely in Israel.
 
=====================================================================
 
Some cases were reported and went viral, of fire that seemed grossly unjustified, such as the man running with a tire about a month ago, or more recently the doctor that was shot in the leg (I think that even though he was very close to the fence, it's unjustified as doctors are frequently brought there to drag away the injured). But in the end the guys holding these rifles are just normal human beings, and whose judgement and circumstances we do not know. My take from this is that overall there needs to be some more transparency, that some incidents probably should have been avoided entirely, but in a very general sense I think the IDF handled it in the closest way to optimal that it could, given its circumstances.
 
 
@roguetechie My sincerest apologies for writing this. Just try to ignore it, please.

Because sometimes you have to act even though you know this is what your adversary wants.
This has been a lose-lose situation for Israel from the very beginning. There was no possible way to turn this around.
 
First, it's important to understand in what cases the IDF uses the following methods:
1)Arrest.
2)Tear gas.
3)Rubber bullets.
4)Water cannons.
5)Live ammo to maim.
6)Live ammo to kill.
 
=====================================================================
 
1)Ideally, every infiltration attempt is handled by quick response units who are geared to make an arrest, even if the infiltrator is armed. In most cases they are armed, albeit usually not for the intent of killing, but that's a topic for another debate. BUT, you cannot make an arrest when there are another 20 people nearby who can assault the soldiers. This is why throughout these protests, the number of arrests has been very low. I think only 2 or 3 incidents.
 
2)Tear gas is used at any range within the buffer zone. 
 
3)Rubber bullets are very limited in their range. These sand berms are located maybe 20-30 meters from the fence. Many times going to several hundred meters. Thus normally they would only be effective against people who are already at the fence. However, they almost never go to the fence alone. These are coordinated efforts of usually dozens of men. Firing rubber on them becomes ineffective as the rate of fire is very low, and their lethality is substantially increased. When you only have a couple sharpshooters in a position and the border is rushed by 50-something people, you may not have the time to load 50 rubber bullets before it turns into a life threatening event. Thus although they are used, they are not enough in many cases.
 
 
4)Range is even more limited, and they're used almost exclusively to put out tire fires. 
 
5)Used against those who enter too deep into the buffer zone, which used to be 300m but was reduced to 100m to reduce casualties, and those who pose a high threat to soldiers - Slingshots, firebombs (aka molotovs), IED kites. 
 
6)Used only against those who are breaching the fence, those who already breached, and those who pose an immediate threat - any sort of firearm, explosive devices (IEDs, pipe bombs, grenades) etc.
 
=====================================================================
 
There's also the question of why shoot to kill infiltrators anyway instead of just sending quick reaction forces to try and catch them. The answer to that would be.... Google maps. 
 
This one is from 2014 and shows a simple map of tunnels coming out from the Gaza strip, but it illustrates my point fairly well:
 
There are villages, towns, and cities located so close to the Gaza strip that you could get to them from the fence in just a couple minutes' walk. Sa'ad in this picture less so, but Nahal Oz, Kfar Aza, and the largest of them Sderot, a city of 25,000 people, are only less than a kilometer from the Gaza border. It's even frequent for houses in Sderot to be hit with machine gun fire. When you have population centers about half a mile away from the border, and a quarter of a mile from your position, you don't take risks.
 
Even a single man carrying a knife that gets past the border fence, past the soldiers, and into one of these, could cause a massacre. Most men, however, who tried to infiltrate, weren't holding kitchen knives. They were packing firearms and grenades.
 
So when Hamas say they're going to breach the border and murder as many people as they can, well even if it's just propaganda talk to rile up the people, you gotta take them seriously, because even if they do live up to their word, they don't lose. It's still a victory for them because they need not only international support, but inner support. It's why they also decided to take the hit and admit 50 of the dead were theirs - They need to show the locals they're men of actions, whether or not that number is real or made up. And that sort of action is not viewed nicely in Israel.
 
=====================================================================
 
Some cases were reported and went viral, of fire that seemed grossly unjustified, such as the man running with a tire about a month ago, or more recently the doctor that was shot in the leg (I think that even though he was very close to the fence, it's unjustified as doctors are frequently brought there to drag away the injured). But in the end the guys holding these rifles are just normal human beings, and whose judgement and circumstances we do not know. My take from this is that overall there needs to be some more transparency, that some incidents probably should have been avoided entirely, but in a very general sense I think the IDF handled it in the closest way to optimal that it could, given its circumstances.
 
 
@roguetechie My sincerest apologies for writing this. Just try to ignore it, please.

Mantis 4x4 ATV in the under 9 ton category:
 

 
 
EDIT: To be fully unveiled in Eurosatory (mid-June).

UPDATE: Eitan finished 2 years of rigorous mobility testing and will enter a mass production phase within 2 more years, more or less.

Some more infos on the VBMR light (as opposed to the 6x6 VBMR "heavy")
 
http://forcesoperations.com/le-vbmr-leger-sous-les-projecteurs/
 
Among other things:
 
-Hydrogas suspension
-350 hp for 15 to 18t
-Lots of off the shelf civilians components
-Texelis rejected the V shaped hull to use "another concept"
-Antares optical surveillance system by Thales
 
 
-Armor kit available (but they don't give the protection rating nor the basic protection of the vehicle)
-Pilar V acoustic shot detection system
 
 
-NBC protection
-A400M and C-130 transportable
-Connected to the Scorpion BMS
 
 
-10 infantryman with the FELIN system with 24h of combat load
 
The armored patrol vehicle (APV) version will be the first to be developed and shall start qualification in 2021.
There will be 10 kits for the APV version:
 
Basic infantry version 81 and 120 mm mortar Artillery observer Command post Ambulance Combat engineers MMP (AT version) Supply Short range air defense The two other versions will be :
Tactical informations node (NTC) which will basically be a relay in complicated environment. There will be 4 (unknown) sub-versions. Qualification in 2023 Surveillance, Acquisition, Intelligence and Reconnaissance (SA2R), the electronic warfare version with 2 sub-versions. Qualifications in 2022  

I really don't have the energy to deal with you right now so go and try provoke someone else. And yes, I do consider it perfectly legal, legitimate, and even in Syria's fault because I know it pisses you off so much.
 
I know you and @roguetechie have an agenda. I don't mind. I just expect you to act like an adult. 
Have a nice day.

So I don't get to voice my opinion? I merely reiterated that some people make mistakes, because judgement changes and gets colder when you cannot see the person. Usually people agree with such stance. If this antagonized you that much, maybe there is also a problem in you.
 
But I can definitely see a pattern here. I will be careful not to speak near you, so as to not antagonize you.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

I assume Germany would the strongest supporter of such a move. I heard they are planning to double their tank force and service a whole platoon.

We got candy...