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Jackvony last won the day on September 17 2019

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  1. The below work is not mine but instead a nice synopsis made by a user on the War Thunder forums. As you may know, they are adding the M1A2 to the game and this was part of a discussion on its armor protection. "Well the armor is rated for being slightly stronger than the Challenger 2's from some British military report comparing the Challenger 2 to other NATO MBTs of the time. And as Jackvony said, it had additional armor to protect against the projected Soviet threat of the time. It would have more armor protection than the "M1A1 now in production," and in this 1989 document, would mean the M1A1 Heavy Armor. So it should be an improvement over the M1A1 Heavy Armor. And we know the export version of the M1A2 to Sweden's armor values are: But according to duckmartin's reference, PB 7-90-1 (Infantry magazine), the M1A1 Heavy Armor has armor almost matching (albeit the export M1A2 still is a bit worse than the export M1A2 in chemical protection) the export M1A2 Abrams given to Sweden. The basic M1 Abrams, for which we have the Material Need requirements for, also matches. So without a doubt, it should at least have more than 600mm of RHAe over a 60-degree frontal arc, as the older and less protected M1A1 Heavy Armor "only" had 600mm RHAe over a 60-degree frontal arc. This also agrees with one of those books you stated. Now, what did the United States believe the Challenger 2's frontal armor to be, considering the M1A2 supposedly had slightly better protection? Well, that would be 650mm RHAe over a 60-degree arc. So more than 650mm of RHAe over a 60-degree frontal arc would be a realistic amount for the turret of the M1A2 Abrams to have. I'll try finding more, but I doubt I will considering the M1A2 is a little classified and still in US service." In addition, here is a document discussing the upgrades (and problems) done to the block II Abrams, aka M1A2, also talks about armor upgrades: https://www.gao.gov/assets/220/212127.pdf If anyone else has some documents about M1A2 armor, us fellas on the WT forum would greatly appreciate it.
  2. Just adding some stuff I've found on the Abrams export packages offered to Sweden and then Greece and Turkey. I will paste the second one in a spoiler with the citation as it is behind a academic log in wall.
  3. So these are the measurements I made counting pixels. Feel free to critique. I'm afraid I was unable to get a picture of the bottom as I wasn't allowed to pick the round up. I'm tempted to bring a meter-stick down to measure the thing but I'll probably look waaaaayyy too suspicious. Already got some weird looks for measuring the add-on armor on a Bradley (35-55mm plates, thicker plates on the front turret).
  4. I disagree. Look at the sabot petals. They extend up a good further on the upper part of the projectile. The tip also seems to have a more fluid shape compared to M829A3. I'm going to take a less distorted picture today and then use the width of the round to estimate penetrator length.
  5. I can try to take more pictures today, especially to compare with photos of M829A3. I mentioned the hypothesis stated earlier in this thread that the datalink is used to program some kind of precursor to fly infront of the round to defeat heavy ERA to the Master Sergeant in charge of the display. He asked me if my parents worked for the military and when I said no, shook his head, smiled, and told me I knew too much. I know this is "heresay" but to me, it's pretty good confirmation you guys are on the right track.
  6. Yes thank you! The side skirts on the M1A2 SEPv2 here at USMA intrigued me as the serial number begins with a U, wondering if this means anything. I though if older sideskirts lacked this U it might shown an update in the composite maybe, similar to turret serial number.
  7. Does anyone have a close-up picture of an older Abrams (preferably M1A1-HA or older) sideskirt with the serial number readable?
  8. New here, but I've followed this thread (and Mech Warfare) for a good while. I attend the United States Military Academy and it is branch week here. Armor brought an M1A2 SEPv2 which, while awesome and cool to get inside of, was nothing new. However, they had a cutaway of a M829A4 round, which was on public display so it's not breaking OPSEC. Thought it would interest you guys. Edit: I have no official measurements but I've looked at some photos of M829A3 and the penetrator definitely seems longer based on the sabot petals seeming to be longer at the top.
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