BaronTibere
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BaronTibere reacted to a post in a topic:
United States Military Vehicle General: Guns, G*vins, and Gas Turbines
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Very similar to the old CIA docs
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Clan_Ghost_Bear reacted to a post in a topic:
Britons are in trouble
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Also a picture of the CR3 model is going around. Shows what looks like applique armour on the turret and UFP, as well as LWRs on the front corners. Also looks like there is a stowage bin on the roof next to the gunner's sight, though hard to say with so few pixels.
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This does theoretically allow them to order tracked boxers and have a common wheeled/tracked artillery system, should the tracked boxer make it to production.
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https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2024/04/british-army-s-most-lethal-tank-prototype-rolls-off-production-line?utm_source=BritishArmy_X&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Modernisation
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Cleb reacted to a post in a topic:
Piranha/ LAV, success story
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LoooSeR reacted to a post in a topic:
Piranha/ LAV, success story
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Serge reacted to a post in a topic:
Piranha/ LAV, success story
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10x10s are back on the menu boys. They made one up with the RCH-155.
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BaronTibere reacted to a post in a topic:
The Leopard 2 Thread
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Good view of the UFP pack: And looks like this one has the roof applique roughed in, but empty (maybe its just spaced once again).
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BaronTibere reacted to a post in a topic:
Britons are in trouble
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BaronTibere reacted to a post in a topic:
Contemporary Western Tank Rumble!
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This is attributing things to this document that it cannot say, while ignoring what it does say. This document was rather popular on the war thunder forums among people looking for sources for buffs they wanted, instead of evaluating the document for what it is. "In this quick study" Not a roadmap of planned changes, a study of potential improvements to the platform. That there is a II and III and that the dates are similar does not really prove anything except that they spaced them out in roughly 3 year intervals. I cannot remember if there are additional pages but this makes no mention of TOGS. The Glacis protection could not be improved to that degree without obvious visual changes (i.e.: thicker, way thicker) and we have later documents that peg it at ~300mm KE (350mm with the gulf war applique). The new gun would not happen until Challenger 2, same with the free gunner's sight and transmission improvements. I'm not entirely sure on the date of the document but it predates Mk.1 service (1983). You can infer this based on the wording regarding the OE ammo (L23A1) being in service in 1982, meaning the document is likely 1981 or earlier. Note L23A1 and L26A1 were already in development at this point, so predicting their service dates really just means that they managed to stay on schedule (though L26A1 would not be fielded until the gulf war). This document is a fun read, and points to how early back they were aware of Challenger 1 short comings that would be remedied on Challenger 2, but it has zero bearing on what actually did happen.
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This document really needs to die. It is not talking about the Mk.2. It is talking about potential major upgrades to the challenger program. Some of these ideas eventually found their way into the CR2 but none were applied to the CR1.
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https://vxtwitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1749478595796381994?s=46&t=VskD77pvFSopBzS65us6aA First pic of a CR3 prototype. Upper glacis seems thicker but no massive change in geometry.
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At a certain point in tank development you have a design freeze. CR2's ISD was 1998 but deliveries started in 1994, the 4 year delay was down to reliability and quality issues. That means it's exceedingly likely that the internal armour composition was finalized and frozen prior to 1994 by a year or so, if not more.
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Gaijin actually posted some images of a detail I've never noticed before which is there are two bolts running though the mantlet envelopes similar to the ones the challenger 1/2 use to mount their composites, which would align with the leaked description of the envelopes having some sort of array.
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This makes sense to me, the Haynes manual refers to it becoming the CR2 but from reading the docs it does seem more as you said. I think you've misunderstood me as I didn't explain this well. There is a belief that the CR2 *hull* has 500mm KE protection, based on old documents during the initial CR1 years for future improved challenger versions. As the requirement 4026 is only 350mm, and the proposed upgrade of CR1 with improved chobham is also only 350mm, and the CR2 glacis bears no major difference to the CR1 outwardly, it seems unlikely to have achieved 500mm KE.
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It's quite complicated as while KNDS (via KMW) owns the Leopard 2 IP, Rheinmetall is a major supplier (via itself and also acquisitions) and also by way of subsidiary acquisition has some license production rights which are disputed by KNDS. The new proposal to construct KF51s in Hungary will use a "new" hull based on the Buffel (which is itself Leopard 2 based) as Rheinmetall has rights to through the acquistion of MaK in 1990.
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Yeah I'm completely unsure what the difference is between the two appliques. I do wonder if 4026 and "Proposed" were able/required to reach 350/650 without an external applique via some minor internal changes - might explain why there is a 50mm difference in CE between Gulf config and 4026/Proposed. This is just speculation however. I feel fairly confident that the CR2 isn't able to reach 500mm KE as some claim based on old unspecific CR1 era proposals.
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Ramlaen reacted to a post in a topic:
The Leopard 2 Thread
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Do we have a thread for the KF51 or are we just lumping it into the Leopard thread? Rheinmetal to develop KF51 EVO in Hungary Hull based on Bergepanzer 3 120mm L55A1 (ready for 130mm) Autoloader
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