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Yoshi_E

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Yoshi_E last won the day on January 28

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  1. The illustration shows RHAe - not RHA values. RHA being just a block of steel - while RHAe is often a simulated target of special armor. Modern rounds are specifically designed to deal better with special armor - something that you cant just calculate. As @FORMATOSE pointed out, I dont know if those are the official KMW/RH figures - or their own speculation. Thanks to more recent pics we know the penetrator is a bit longer than we initially assumed: Here is a better example that talks specifically about a steel target: 650mm@0° at 3km 750mm@60° at 3km On an old Bundeswehr slide from 2004 or so they lists DM53 as If you now also take into account that DM53/63 can bypass ERA such as K5 (~250mm RHAe) by non-initiation - you will arrive at the requirement of LKE II to perforate 1000mm RHAe
  2. On the topic of armor, there was this nice slide of the Perun Army in 2021 that was discussing the acquisition of older Leopard 2A4 tanks with apparently upgraded internal armor. 550-600mm arc protection on Leopard 2A4 - possible the drop-ins that were mentioned? The Mantlet would seemingly receive no improvement and stay at ~315mm RHAe.
  3. Im not yet fully convinced that the lines are just simple weld lines. Thats why I initially brought this up. In the center the blocks are directly welded with a smooth finish. On the outside they are cut into the steel and then filled - non of the lines have any visible typical weld patterns (though could be covered by thick layer of paint). Butt joints like these also usually bulge out of the plate - instead being embedded. Why is the pattern irregular (but also identical on all tanks)? If they are strongly welded together, why would there be two additional bolts to strap all the four blocks together? That's why I wondered if these might be crumple zones to allow for some minimal shift of the blocks to feed more material against a penetrator. I wonder if that could work for thicker blocks like these, maybe someone could simulate it. Anyway lets leave it at this, discussing it further would be unnecessary. The blocks are around 360-370mm thick based on my current estimate. Each section including the joint lines is 100mm, with the last block being a bit thinner, around ~60-70mm. Gunner side is 542kg - Loaders side is 389kg (@ TWMSR) What makes you think that the gunshield is some aluminum alloy? Its definitely some sort of tempered metal. Here a short animation displaying the parts The model is based on a mix of 3D photogrammetry scans of the entire turret and schematics, but still needs some fine tuning.
  4. For the right one I currently got 0.0707m^3 * 7750kg/m^3 ~= 548kg but the model is not fully tweaked yet. Im assuming thats without the bolts and the part attached on the back? Thanks for the info. Do you, or anyone else, have an idea why there is a 2nd hole below the MG that goes all the way through, even through the armor plate of the mantlet? On the Inside it looks like this: I assumed it would be just the mount for the MG and or a reservoir for the recuperators/intensifiers of the recoil system, but that doesn't seem to be the case? Why does it go all the way through, not only the cradle, also through the mantlet armor plate, but not the Mantlet main armor blocks. Or is it just and access for maintenance hatch will be closed before the gun mantlet armor is installed? Just like the MG Its not present in any form on the new 130mm. Edit: Seems to be a manual smoke extractor as far as i could find.
  5. Thats incorrect, the blocks themselves are much simpler in nature. They are solid steel blocks as I described them previously. What im interested is this part: The part that is secured by the bolts and has been removed here:
  6. This armor block is a one piece block with cutouts for a polymer at a 90% steel 10% polymer ratio, making 4 steel and 3 polymer layers. However I find the use of the screws in this construction rather odd. These bolts pass through the block and connect to something on its back. There is no threading on these bolts that interact with the steel block. They just pass through. Does anyone know how the backside of this armor block looks like / whats attached to these bolts? Presumably these screws ontop attach to the same thing. You can even see a glimpse of it next to the gunner optics:
  7. You think the value Rheinmetall has given is wrong? I doubt that. It also matches the recently measured weight on Pz 87. The barrel weight is commonly given, and known for all L44 and L55 variants. I think its more likely that the system or the armor on the system was changed, or increased in weight since 1982. E.g. the Turnunion there was not manufactured that precise in 1980, it should also be slightly smaller due to additional paint layer. Other changes could be the recoil system. The mount system for the MG was also changed. So 3655kg for Leopard A0-A3 and 3780kg or 3800kg for Leopard 2A4 - Leopard 2A5.
  8. I summarized all weights here: http://gamesound.eu/res/leopard2/leopard_120mm_compare.svg In most sources 3800kg or 3780kg is given (especially for more current version) @SH_MM Source to that? It looks alot like the 2AV armor array, how much is that applicable to Leopard 2A4, considering that the armor layout between them were changed quite considerably?
  9. I had that file already in my folder... guess i overlooked it or got deterred by the language. Thats why this thread is a gold mine The swedish document was difficult to translate, but I manged to find everything other than "Framförare vikt : 36kg" Translation is something like: "Front - Recoil reducing". Im assuming its part of the hydraulics / recuperators, but the "Front" part in it doesnt match that. I updated my post, though the total mass is still off by some 540kg. Other than the cradle tube i cant think of other locations where this weight could be. Any ideas? @Pardus: 240mm thickness 728mm wide (Swedish documents list 910mm including the bearings) 500mm tall The central hole should be around 310 mm in diameter (from the Swedish document) The smaller ones are larger on the inside and smaller on the front, but in general it should be 30-80mm in diameter. Based on:
  10. I spend recently a bit of time with the Rh-120mm L44 gun. Here are my findings (weight estimation): Here are also some great pics of the L44 cut open:
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