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Vehicles of the PLA: Now with refreshing new topic title!


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3 hours ago, U-47 said:

It seems you may didn't know about Chinese T-72B's story before: yes, technically, T-72B has never been exported, but, in the early 1990s, Russian army is busy on selling almost everything to feed themself, official or unofficial, legal or illegal. And there are rumors so we smuggled some T-80U and T-72B from your far eastern military district. Now, I don't know if the T-72B part is true (some of my friends said it is true), I never saw its confirmed photos, but the T-80U part is real for sure, here is the photo:

Now, back to the photo of plant 617's testing groud, I know you are far more professional on Russian tank than me, you said it should be a T72M (or T72A), do you mean you found some T72M's  features in the photo, or do you mean it is too hard to check out the specific type of this T72 in the photo but you believe it should be a T72M because there shouldn't be any T72B outside Russia?

I always thought that T-80U deal was official. There were no such tanks in districts bordering China, so this could not have been done without government's consent. Probably they hoped to sell it, probably it was done in exchange for some other favor. But it was already in 90s. WZ-123 program was based on T-72, and as far as I know, it started before 90s (correct me if I am wrong here). That's why I thought that getting hands on T-72B in 90s would have been insignifficant.

My identification of this T-72 as T-72M1 (and not T-72M) was not just a product of deduction - features of "Dolly Parton" turret (specific to T-72A and T-72M1) are clearly apparent. It is distinctively different from both full cast turret of T-72 and T-72M, and "Super Dolly Parton" of T-72B. This is interesting because it could not have been the tank from Romania - there were only T-72Ms there. It seems that China was collecting Russian tanks from different sources at some point.

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for some reason the hull looks like KV-1

676 ‘s model.

Where is the gallery now..... OK, here are some Chinese cold-war prototype tank. 1980s, Type 80 tank with welded turret,this is one of the first Chinese welded tank turrets, as you can see i

Posted Images

1 hour ago, Levi said:

I always thought that T-80U deal was official. There were no such tanks in districts bordering China, so this could not have been done without government's consent. Probably they hoped to sell it, probably it was done in exchange for some other favor. But it was already in 90s. WZ-123 program was based on T-72, and as far as I know, it started before 90s (correct me if I am wrong here). That's why I thought that getting hands on T-72B in 90s would have been insignifficant.

My identification of this T-72 as T-72M1 (and not T-72M) was not just a product of deduction - features of "Dolly Parton" turret (specific to T-72A and T-72M1) are clearly apparent. It is distinctively different from both full cast turret of T-72 and T-72M, and "Super Dolly Parton" of T-72B. This is interesting because it could not have been the tank from Romania - there were only T-72Ms there. It seems that China was collecting Russian tanks from different sources at some point.

Yes, WZ123 started in 1980s.

But T-80U's superior armour and M1A1HA's slaughter on T72s in 1991 shocked PLA, that makes PLA believe WZ123's original design (basicly a heavily improved T-72M as you know it) is not enough at all. I always thought WZ123 may goes to production much earlier if without these 2 events, and if so, we would probably have a Type 93 or Type 94 tank instead of the Type 99.

T-72M1 and T-72A look like the same, right? I mean, could that T-72 in fact be a T-72A?

And thank you for your great help, you corrected a lot of our mistakes (like museum's Storm-1's turret and the so called T-72B's interior photos).

And, so far, I still found 0 info about the 1-piece casted turret Type59 aside WZ111, nobody knows what's that turret. I think I may have to visit the museum myself someday, try to find out more info.

 

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On 24.02.2017 at 11:02 PM, U-47 said:

T-72M1 and T-72A look like the same, right? I mean, could that T-72 in fact be a T-72A?

T-72A models produced from 1982 onwards can be easily distinguished from T-72M1. Those made prior to 1982 are identical to T-72M1 at least on the exterior. But there are substantial differences (see below).

On 25.02.2017 at 0:06 AM, Mighty_Zuk said:

Question here: Were the T-72A and T-72M1 given the same ammo? I've heard that T-72M1 users were given older ammo. If that is the case, can they be distinguished by their ammo selection in the FCS? Or was it the same for both?

There were two primary types of APFSDS rounds during the production period of T-72A/M1. 3BM15 was the older type, designed for T-64A and T-72. 3BM22 is a newer one, and was specific to Soviet inventory of the period, while 3BM15 was widely exported. The thing is, autoloader controls allowed only the selection between apfsds, heat and hef rounds, while specific apfsds type was to be selected in gunner's sight's presets, and the process was not exactly straightforward. And I do not know, whether T-72M1 had any artificial limitations here. But regardless whether it did or not, there is a WAY easier method of telling T-72A apart from T-72M1: those two had entirely different infrared sights. T-72A was equipped with dual mode active/passive image intensifier, not unlike that M60A1 RISE PASSIVE had:
interior_002.jpg
(this is not T-72, but the sight is the same)
While T-72M1 had this:
dsvgrftshthsr.jpg

By the way, speaking of WZ123. The most interesting (to me) version of it was the one you were talking about - "would be type 93 or 94". Here it is I assume:
19098779.jpg
How much information about this vehicle is there?

EDIT (this is important): since I didn't provide the clear answer to Zuk's question, I have done some searching and came up with something more solid. It turns out that unlike T-72B, T-72M1 and T-72A both lack controls to set the type of ammo used. Their FCS use the same ballistic settings for all types apfsds, heat and hef rounds. It may be possible that T-72As got retrofitted with "correction input devices" during overhauls (since it wouldn't require modifications to the sight itself), but at least judging by manuals released at the time of T-72B appearance, production T-72A didn't have them. As I said, I know little about T-72M/M1 specifics, but it is unlikely that those tanks were equipped better than their domestic versions. Still, the easiest way is just to look at the night vision sight.

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On 2017/2/25 at 4:58 PM, Levi said:

By the way, speaking of WZ123. The most interesting (to me) version of it was the one you were talking about - "would be type 93 or 94". Here it is I assume:

19098779.jpg
How much information about this vehicle is there?

Not much, I know sth about what we have in that era ( specific armour and weapon performance, but it is still classified info, so I can't told you the detail, what I can share is in 1989, the lowest Chinese composite armour is a copy of early T72's UFP armour, 200mm at 22  degree, which resist 320mm VS AP and 425mm VS HEAT; the best one is also 200mm/22 degree, which can resist 400mm+ VS AP and 600mm+ VS HEAT. So we may assume that's what the first prototype has ), but not WZ123's original design's detail info.

All I have about it, is another photo of its early model, this is declassified:

32373177663_3a48bc1321_b.jpg

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12 hours ago, U-47 said:

Not much, I know sth about what we have in that era ( specific armour and weapon performance, but it is still classified info, so I can't told you the detail, what I can share is in 1989, the lowest Chinese composite armour is a copy of early T72's UFP armour, 200mm at 22  degree, which resist 320mm VS AP and 425mm VS HEAT; the best one is also 200mm/22 degree, which can resist 400mm+ VS AP and 600mm+ VS HEAT. So we may assume that's what the first prototype has ), but not WZ123's original design's detail info.

All I have about it, is another photo of its early model, this is declassified:

Didn't see this one before, hence many thanks!
So, as we now have seen the vehicle's engine compartment, I assume it was to be powered by the same engine the final Type 99 version ended up with, wasn't it? Is it actually based on MTU MB 873 design as many articles suggest, or is it just a rumor?
I also have couple photos of WZ123 running prototype, more advanced design than what this mockup represents, but still inferior to the final Type 99:
779.jpg
2008021221060875969.jpg
Note that it is armed with 2A46 gun instead of ZPT-98, lacks commander's panoramic sight, and turret's cheek armor has visibly less los thickness than production variant.
Another interesting thing - unknown Type 80 prototype armed with D-10:
1438345997233.jpg

And another bunch of my questions:
-What were the factory codes for Type 80 and Type 85 family vehicles? Not all of them were developed out of factory's own initiative.
-What is the difference between Type 85-II and Type 85-IIA? Was Type 85-IIA ever made? I have seen no photos.
-What engine and transmission did Type 85-III have? Some sources claim it was equipped with 1000hp V-2 derivative and BKPs. If yes, then are we to assume these originated from Poland?
-Can you give a rundown of Chinese V-2 derivatives and transmissions Type 80 and 85 tanks had?

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4 hours ago, Levi said:

Didn't see this one before, hence many thanks!
So now, as we now have seen the vehicle's engine compartment, I assume it was to be powered by the same engine the final Type 99 version ended up with, wasn't it? Is it actually based on MTU MB 873 design as many articles suggest, or is it just a rumor?

It's a rumor, but comes with good reason, because we do imported 10 sets of MTU 8V331TC41 engine ( Leopard 2's MTU873's civil use version) in 1978, what we wanted is to make a tank engine version of it, for our future tank (at that time's future tank).

The question is, the 960hp 8V165 ( V-8, cylinder diameter=165mm, which means 120hp per cylinder) prototype engine based on MTU failed in test again and again, the reason is simply: we don't have that level of technology in early 1980s, and Germans refuse to give us any help when we asked, so this engine had no way to go but died.

After it failed, in 1981, we decided to devlop a new 1000hp 12V150 engine (and we hope we can improve it to 1200hp later) , which means 83hp per cylinder, so it's more easier to made than the 8V165. With the help from CV12 ( Challenger tank's 1200hp engine, we imported from British in 1985 and made a lot of live test on BK1850~BK1871, and obviously our technology level was better in 1985 than 8V165's 1978 ) and western experts ( I know they helped, but I don't know how much ),  this one is at least more reliable and been installed to WZ123's prototype. It was declare success in 1998, here, I don't know if it achieved 1000hp in 1998 or before 1998, anyway this is 9910's engine. And Type99 (the 2004 type) installed its 1200hp version.

So basicly this engine is a Chinese one with some technology from British more than German.

Type99A has a new engine, it is said it's a whole new engine developed all by ourself, but I don't know its detail.

4 hours ago, Levi said:

-What were the factory codes for Type 80 and Type 85 family vehicles? Not all of them were developed out of factory's own initiative.
-What is the difference between Type 85-II and Type 85-IIA? Was Type 85-IIA ever made? I have seen no photos.
-What engine and transmission did Type 85-III have? Some sources claim it was equipped with 1000hp V-2 derivative and BKPs. If yes, then are we to assume these originated from Poland?
-Can you give a rundown of Chinese V-2 derivatives and transmissions Type 80 and 85 tanks had?

I don't know the whole codes for Type80 and Type85 family, I only know Type85-II AP's code is BK1055, and Type90-II is BK1062. And there is another interesting thing, somehow Plant 617 has a T-72 upgrade plan called BK1041, no detail info.

I never heard Type85-IIA, I don't think it has been built.

Type85-III's 1000hp engine pack comes from Yugoslavia, I never heard anything about we work with Poland on any tank.

Type80's engine: Max 730HP at 2000 r/min, fuel cost 237~313L/100km ( type59 is 180~190L/100km in the same file, doesn't mention if it is on road or in the field, maybe the lower one is on road and the higher one is in the field), lubricant cost 8.5~10.3L/100km (type59 is 6~8).

Type80: Max speed 57km/h (type59/69/79 is 50km/h in the same file), average speed on road is 35~40km/h (type59 is 30~33, type69/79 is 32~35).

 

 

I think the Type80 with D10T gun is a early prototype.

I don't know where you find this early Type99's picture, but that's nice, I never saw this photo before.

I have to sleep now, it's 01:31 here already.

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14 hours ago, U-47 said:

Type99A has a new engine, it is said it's a whole new engine developed all by ourself, but I don't know its detail.

Type 99A 1500hp power pack was spotted several times, and it is a spitting image of MB873 Ka501, which might have strengthened the rumor of Gernam connection even further:
5dee917f_5b9a_4c96_a500_aeee8ff8f560.jpg25734154643_f08d1b065d_k.jpg
26310974496_913414ea47_k.jpgu_3834102539_3571770819_fm_23_gp_0.jpg
But it is still very different from the German pack and the engine itself is clearly not a copy. So these pictures actually disprove the claim at least as much as they may suggest it.
 

14 hours ago, U-47 said:

After it failed, in 1981, we decided to devlop a new 1000hp 12V150 engine (and we hope we can improve it to 1200hp later) , which means 83hp per cylinder, so it's more easier to made than the 8V165. With the help from CV12 ( Challenger tank's 1200hp engine, we imported from British in 1985 and made a lot of live test on BK1850~BK1871, and obviously our technology level was better in 1985 than 8V165's 1978 ) and western experts ( I know they helped, but I don't know how much ),  this one is at least more reliable and been installed to WZ123's prototype. It was declare success in 1998, here, I don't know if it achieved 1000hp in 1998 or before 1998, anyway this is 9910's engine. And Type99 (the 2004 type) installed its 1200hp version.

What kind of engines did earlier Type 99 variants had I have no idea. Many sources refer to it as "150HB" while also claiming MTU connection, but I have seen neither any photos, nor any other kind of additional detail. 12V150ZL (as well as all of it's predecessors) was clearly based on V-2-54, but whether new engine was it's knock off, or an entirely new design, it's unclear.
By the way, you have mentioned "Type 99 - 2004 type", did you mean the version that also had a welded turret? I am asking because it was only spotted in 2006 if I remember correctly, so this may be a valuable clarification.
 

14 hours ago, U-47 said:

I don't know the whole codes for Type80 and Type85 family, I only know Type85-II AP's code is BK1055, and Type90-II is BK1062. And there is another interesting thing, somehow Plant 617 has a T-72 upgrade plan called BK1041, no detail info.

I never heard Type85-IIA, I don't think it has been built.

Type85-III's 1000hp engine pack comes from Yugoslavia, I never heard anything about we work with Poland on any tank.

Type80's engine: Max 730HP at 2000 r/min, fuel cost 237~313L/100km ( type59 is 180~190L/100km in the same file, doesn't mention if it is on road or in the field, maybe the lower one is on road and the higher one is in the field), lubricant cost 8.5~10.3L/100km (type59 is 6~8).

Type80: Max speed 57km/h (type59/69/79 is 50km/h in the same file), average speed on road is 35~40km/h (type59 is 30~33, type69/79 is 32~35).

I think the Type80 with D10T gun is a early prototype.

I don't know where you find this early Type99's picture, but that's nice, I never saw this photo before.

I have to sleep now, it's 01:31 here already.

Thanks for all of the info.

Type 85-IIA was according to several sources a version of 85-II (with L7 and simplified engine and transmission) that Pakistan was initially going to order, before switching to 85-IIM/85-IIAP.

I have only heared about 85-III's engine as having eastern european origins, Poland was my own assumption, do not mind it.

What about Type 96 engines? 96A is equipped with 12V150ZL, right?

Can't point to the source of Type 99 prototype photos unfortunately. I have those for a rather long time already. I once used to make a lot of searches in baidu with several specific queries such as "prototype" or "test vehicle". Likely there was not much additional info, on the site whewe it came from.

New questions (since you have mentioned BK1850). What are the recognition points of WZ1224/BK1850? I have gathered that one of them had rectangular exhaust tubes, while the other - round ones, but which is which? What was the purpose of BK1850? What kind of engine did it have? And snce we have touched this, what kind of engine did WZ1224 have? Was it the same as WZ1226 or something different?

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On 2017/3/3 at 4:26 PM, Levi said:

What kind of engines did earlier Type 99 variants had I have no idea. Many sources refer to it as "150HB" while also claiming MTU connection, but I have seen neither any photos, nor any other kind of additional detail. 12V150ZL (as well as all of it's predecessors) was clearly based on V-2-54, but whether new engine was it's knock off, or an entirely new design, it's unclear.
By the way, you have mentioned "Type 99 - 2004 type", did you mean the version that also had a welded turret? I am asking because it was only spotted in 2006 if I remember correctly, so this may be a valuable clarification.
 

Thanks for all of the info.

Type 85-IIA was according to several sources a version of 85-II (with L7 and simplified engine and transmission) that Pakistan was initially going to order, before switching to 85-IIM/85-IIAP.

I have only heared about 85-III's engine as having eastern european origins, Poland was my own assumption, do not mind it.

What about Type 96 engines? 96A is equipped with 12V150ZL, right?

Can't point to the source of Type 99 prototype photos unfortunately. I have those for a rather long time already. I once used to make a lot of searches in baidu with several specific queries such as "prototype" or "test vehicle". Likely there was not much additional info, on the site whewe it came from.

New questions (since you have mentioned BK1850). What are the recognition points of WZ1224/BK1850? I have gathered that one of them had rectangular exhaust tubes, while the other - round ones, but which is which? What was the purpose of BK1850? What kind of engine did it have? And snce we have touched this, what kind of engine did WZ1224 have? Was it the same as WZ1226 or something different?

1, like I said before, though we did try to make a tank engine based on MTU in 1978, but it failed. So maybe Type99 tank's engine still has some German tech, but that's not the major part.

2, in 1990s, a lot of Chinese  military fans worship German tech (even still today), so they hope our engine is also made by German tech, that's why the "99 engine is copyed from MTU" rumor keeps spreading.

3, 120V150ZLC engine (type 80/88/96, 730hp, also called as "730" by our old tank enginers and designers) is basicly a turbocharged V-2-54, here are 2 early photos of it:

prototype engine under test:

33123916872_8389f859b3_z.jpg

test tank ( looks like a Type69, maybe "68 revolution", according to WZ123's deputy chief designer's memoir, "68 revolution" is the frist test bed for 730 engine, it's a tank designed by a worker, yes, worker, not tank enginer, basicly a ordinary type 59/69 with some improvements, no detail info or photo ) with prototype engine under test:

33238409546_63d3bcf88f_z.jpg

4, Type99 (before 99A)'s engine is C12V150ZAL (1200hp, or 150HB), like I said before, it is basicly a new engine (with some tech from British CV12 much more than German MTU), and that's also why it's so unreliable for a very long time (unlike Type80/88's 730 engine based on V-2). Here are some photos of it:

32464765443_7a41fb9f8e_z.jpg.

(the photo above could either be 150X or 150HB, I'm not sure, sorry, I'm not good at engine. BTW, in case you don't know, 150X is another engine designed for WZ123, like F100/F110 for F-15/F-16 , but it's canceled before completed)

32464765613_7a6761863e_z.jpg

32464765623_9a9cbd33d1.jpg

I have to work now, I'll answer your rest questions later.

 

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U-47, what do you make of this? the SA2 76.2mm AA gun.

ukJKOGP.jpg

XxMgAbJ.jpg

xUslLP8.jpg

 

I haven't been able to get any solid info on it, but the rough specs I gather are.

76.2mm gun with an L/60 barrel.

-2 degrees depression/+85 degrees elevation.

Dual feed system with 50 rounds total carried ready.

an approximate rate of fire of 2 rounds per second (which would put at 120 rpm cyclic.)

various ranges, including.

total range of 10km vs fixed wing aircraft and helicopters at an angle

service ceiling of 8km

6km effective range vs UAVs and Cruise missiles. (with implications it has programmable rounds with advanced fuzings and pre fragmented rounds or submunition loadings to deal with such targets.)

+3km when used against ground targets and smaller vessels when deployed as a coastal gun.

Features an onboard muzzle velocity radar and the ability to fire laser guided munitions.

 

However, the name SA2 obviously isn't a military designation, would you think this has any chance of entering service or will it remain a research vehicle/export only item? Also, do you know what munitions it can use exactly? aside from the supposed submunition round for drones and missiles and the laser guided round I haven't heard of any others.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Khand-e said:

 

It's a export only stuff based on AK176 ( simplify AK176 to lose some weight and voloum so it can be installed on a truck), as far as I know, PLA army has no interest in it at all, so of course no military designation.

According to the intervies to its designer, this project started in 2012, it uses AHEAD and laser guided round, no any kind of AP round, that's all I know about it.

BTW, PLA Navy is interest in a quadruple AK176 as a super CIWS, I mean this is not a joke, they are serious on it.

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22 minutes ago, Scolopax said:

More info/images on these multi-barreled naval guns?  This sounds pretty insane.

I only know it was an actually theoretical scheme for higher fire rate, but I also heard that the prototype had been tested in NJUST's institute, I have been there though I found nothing, may be the machine had been already transfered.

This pic of the model came from a thesis of North University of China. Actually the gun barrels are not rotating but rotating the automatic loading machine behind the gun breech.

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23 hours ago, U-47 said:

3, 120V150ZLC engine (type 80/88/96, 730hp, also called as "730" by our old tank enginers and designers) is basicly a turbocharged V-2-54, here are 2 early photos of it:

test tank ( looks like a Type69, maybe "68 revolution", according to WZ123's deputy chief designer's memoir, "68 revolution" is the frist test bed for 730 engine, it's a tank designed by a worker, yes, worker, not tank enginer, basicly a ordinary type 59/69 with some improvements, no detail info or photo ) with prototype engine under test:

4, Type99 (before 99A)'s engine is C12V150ZAL (1200hp, or 150HB), like I said before, it is basicly a new engine (with some tech from British CV12 much more than German MTU), and that's also why it's so unreliable for a very long time (unlike Type80/88's 730 engine based on V-2). Here are some photos of it:

32464765443_7a41fb9f8e_z.jpg.

(the photo above could either be 150X or 150HB, I'm not sure, sorry, I'm not good at engine. BTW, in case you don't know, 150X is another engine designed for WZ123, like F100/F110 for F-15/F-16 , but it's canceled before completed)

32464765613_7a6761863e_z.jpg

32464765623_9a9cbd33d1.jpg

3. What about it's power output? Was it the same or did it grow over time? Engine compartment of 96A seems to be larger than of previous models (most likely because of larger radiator), could it be related to the power increase? Some sources claim 96A to have 1000hp engine.

3a. Could it actually be that the tank from the museum (the one that stands between WZ111 and Type 69) is actually "68 revolution"? It is a 59/69 model with turbocharged V-2 after all.

4. Photos 1 and 2 show the same engine, photo 3 is a V-2 version above Type96A. Engine from the first two pictures I have already seen before:
1609321206_13.png
Just haven't paid enough attention to the photo because of the overall informational "static" around the subject (too much irrelevant information out there). But since it is the same engine, Zhu Yusheng stands next to, it must be 99s 150HB indeed. And yes, it does look neither like MTU, nor CV12 or V-2. Seems to be original.

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55 minutes ago, Levi said:

3. What about it's power output? Was it the same or did it grow over time? Engine compartment of 96A seems to be larger than of previous models (most likely because of larger radiator), could it be related to the power increase? Some sources claim 96A to have 1000hp engine.

3a. Could it actually be that the tank from the museum (the one that stands between WZ111 and Type 69) is actually "68 revolution"? It is a 59/69 model with turbocharged V-2 after all.

4. Photos 1 and 2 show the same engine, photo 3 is a V-2 version above Type96A. Engine from the first two pictures I have already seen before:
Just haven't paid enough attention to the photo because of the overall informational "static" around the subject (too much irrelevant information out there). But since it is the same engine, Zhu Yusheng stands next to, it must be 99s 150HB indeed. And yes, it does look like neither MTU, nor CV12 or V-2. Seems to be original indeed.

3,

Type 80/88/96 uses 120V150ZLC engine, 730HP, I have showed its detail info before;

Type 96A (the 2014 Russian tank game ) uses 12V150ZLD, 800hp, it's a improved 120V150ZLC;

Type 96A1 (the 2015 Russian tank game ) uses a improved 12V150ZLD, still 800hp, no other info;

Type 96B (the 2016 Russian tank game ) uses a complete new 8V150 engine based on 99A's 1500hp 12V150 engine (only know their name are "new 150HB series", and installed on new SPG/ZTD-05 ,etc, no other info), 1000hp.

3a, I thought it before, but unlikely, because it uses a 1-piece cast turret, yet WZ123's deputy chief designer said first Chinese 1-piece cast turret is 1972's WZ122's turret, and "68 revolution" is built in 1968, so, a 1968 tank shouldn't have a 1-piece cast turret. Yet, the museum made a lot of "A's turret + B's hull" hybrid tank (like WZ1223 turret + Type80's hull, or WZ123's turret + Storm's hull which you mentioned before ), so maybe this type 59's hull it is "68 revolution", just has a turret from somewhere else.

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On 2017/3/3 at 4:26 PM, Levi said:

New questions (since you have mentioned BK1850). What are the recognition points of WZ1224/BK1850? I have gathered that one of them had rectangular exhaust tubes, while the other - round ones, but which is which? What was the purpose of BK1850? What kind of engine did it have? And snce we have touched this, what kind of engine did WZ1224 have? Was it the same as WZ1226 or something different?

And for your other questions before:

WZ1224 uses [ imported MTU 8V331TC41 engine ( yes, the civil engine, according to MTU it's a 748hp engine) + Chinese hydraulic transmission ( learned from M46 captured in Korean war and M48 captured in Vietnam war) ] power pack ( the first Chinese power pack),

WZ1226 uses 8V165 engine ( 960hp, the Chinese tank engine version of MTU8V331 which failed as I said before) of Changchun plant, WZ1226F2 uses 12V150 engine ( some said it is 12150L, which means V-2-54's copy, maybe with some improvements. If 12150L is ture, then this is obviously a very reliable backup choice) of Datong plant, and they both use Chinese automatic transmission ( no detail info).

After WZ1224 became BK1850 it uses [ British CV12 engine (1200hp) + western transmission ( either be British TN12 or French ENC200, nobody said which one exactly) ] power pack, in order to install this bigger pack, it cut out the rear hull and welded a new one.

WZ1224:

20110403162057672-1194377.jpg

33300205585_03784f2067_z.jpg

WZ1224's engine:

33259503146_8d08c66a34_n.jpg

WZ1224 installed 2 extra cooling fan later when we found its original cooling system is not strong enough, like this:

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Then installed western power pack and became BK1850:

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I think the difference of its rear part is clear visible:

1, the shape of exhaust hole: in WZ1224 it is square, in BK1850 it is round.
2, the shape ( size) of the engine part: in WZ1224 it is trapezoid and havn't cover the whole width above the track, in BK1850 it is square and covered the whole width above the track.

(maybe you can find more difference)

I'll post more photos of WZ1226 and 1226F2's engines later.

 

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2 more new photos from plant's testing ground:

33274327682_5648b2bb87_z.jpg

this "T-72" is interesting, it looks like some kind of T-72's hull + Type80's roadwheels. Levi, do you have any idea what it might be if it is still a Russian made tank?

On 2017/3/3 at 4:26 PM, Levi said:

 

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By the way, Type85-III's 1000hp engine pack from Yugoslavia:

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WZ122-4's engine pack's running test in March 1979 before it been installed to the tank ( MTU8V331TC41 engine + Chinese hydraulic transmission ):

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WZ122-6 &WZ122-6F2 's Chinese automatic transmission:

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WZ122-6's 8V165 engine:

33430127455_78b8141a1a_b.jpg

33430127405_2ce95789e4_b.jpg

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2 hours ago, U-47 said:

this "T-72" is interesting, it looks like some kind of T-72's hull + Type80's roadwheels. Levi, do you have any idea what it might be if it is still a Russian made tank?

Thanks for your answers and new photos, which are great, just as always. As for the T-72-ish vehicle in the backyard, it's an interesting one indeed. But I don't think it's Russian made. Judging by the splash guard and overall shape of the upper glacis plate, I'd say it is WZ123 based.

Also, going back to BK1871 you have mentioned earlier. I have only two pics of it (I think someone might have already posted them here)
A3xj_Ba_C.jpgd_QDGPum.png

Do you have any extra info? Actual vehicle seems to have T-72M turret, but judging by the schematic, something else was originally intended, different from both T-72 and later Type 90-II developments.

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14 minutes ago, Levi said:

Do you have any extra info? Actual vehicle seems to have T-72M turret, but judging by the schematic, something else was originally intended, different from both T-72 and later Type 90-II developments.

No, I don't have any more photos of BK1871.

According to WZ123's deputy chief designer's memoir: BK1871 is a test bed for western engine pack, specificlly British CV12 engine + German LSG3000 transmission. It's also a early stage/prototype of 90-II.

That's all the info I know about BK1871. It looks like a T72 chassis + western engine pack to me, but it's just a guess.

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5 hours ago, Levi said:

Thanks for your answers and new photos, which are great, just as always. As for the T-72-ish vehicle in the backyard, it's an interesting one indeed. But I don't think it's Russian made. Judging by the splash guard and overall shape of the upper glacis plate, I'd say it is WZ123 based.

Also, going back to BK1871 you have mentioned earlier. I have only two pics of it (I think someone might have already posted them here)
A3xj_Ba_C.jpgd_QDGPum.png

Do you have any extra info? Actual vehicle seems to have T-72M turret, but judging by the schematic, something else was originally intended, different from both T-72 and later Type 90-II developments.

I asked my friend about the chassis which looks like T-72/WZ123, the plant's source says it is a WZ123's prototype, and it has been restored for other test purpose in the recent time.

Also by plant source, the T-72 in the background is a T-72M (not T-72M1), and he send me a close photo of it (and some photo of other tanks here), but I'm sorry, I am forbidden to share these photos.

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