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General artillery, SPGs, MLRS and long range ATGMs thread.


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5 hours ago, heretic88 said:

I think 2s35 will be used parallel with Msta-S, not as its replacement. The old Gvozdika, Akatsia, Giatsint will be replaced by them. 

   I was talking about tactical role, rather than physical replacement. We still have T-72AVs running around in some of military districts, after all. :D

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Object 326 SPG (Unofficial name - "Shayba"), was an initiative development by DB. 46 rounds, "double stack" in circular autoloader, crew in hull compartment outside of "turret". The gun, ammunition ra

2S18 Pat-S, an experimental precursor to the 2S31.  Armament was a SA61 152mm howitzer.    

New Japanese 155 mm SPG    

That's not surprising to be honest. Just to be clear that I read the graphs correct. The three colors represent the type of destroyed object by the threat? I.e. the number 65% means that 65% of destroyed artillery was destroyed by artillery? 

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4 hours ago, Beer said:

That's not surprising to be honest. Just to be clear that I read the graphs correct. The three colors represent the type of destroyed object by the threat? I.e. the number 65% means that 65% of destroyed artillery was destroyed by artillery? 

   Yes, you reading it right.

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   Mortars are not the only thing that some of Ukrainian military equipment makers can fuck up.

https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4423033.html

 

   Wladimir Shchettinin:

Quote

   Let me tell you about the fantastic successes of our (Ukrainian) military industry. If you read all kinds of media, then we "caught up and overtook", and then again lagged behind, but on purpose, then again overtake, with a smirk. Type scoff.

 

   I don’t know for the whole industry, we are working with art[illery], but I suspect that this pattern of behavior is everywhere, in medicine, education. Everywhere. In order to characterize the state of the artillery industry it is not necessary to select words. There is a suitable word. F .... k! [Pizdets!] This is the very capacious word. For those who do not know its meaning, I will try to explain. With photos and even videos.


   To begin, I’ll tell you the latest news, I was shocked. Not the one about Bogdana blowing up its gun breach. There we knew a year ago. And another, 40 year old news. Most recently, dealing with kill mechanics of a fragmentation shell, I read an 1973 American article, unclassified. So, nothing special, tells how it flies, explodes, the types of steel are listed, high-carbon, others, what kind of effect it gives, all sorts of graphics drawn on warm lamp computers.

 

   So, what am I talking aboutis the glorious nanotechnological Ukrainian shells, analogues that don't exist around the world, with fanfare declared by the Pastor, scatter into 5 large and even 50 pieces of small fragments. Maybe even 100.

 

WNDFdK0.jpg

 

Quote

   In the photo you see a typical fragment of a Ukrainian shell.
   Of course, plenty of people will run here,  will scream, sho give out military secrets and all that. So ... the secret is kept from citizens of Ukraine, trying to make them idiots who are proud of fake developments.
   I simply will not say anything about the explosive that the shells are stuffed, not because there’s nothing bad to say.

/.../

    But the people gave work to Ukrainian sappers, who had to urgently come to the warehouses and disunite the explosive shells. Because HE filler began to swell, like buckwheat, in a pan stuffed to the top.

 

qbKq7WV.jpg

 

Quote

   Now let's get right to the bottom line. In the second fot you see an inert shell. Well, that does not explode. Extracted from the ground. 

/.../

   Look carefully. Do you notice anything? Give up? The catch is that we have right rifling in guns. If you look at the projectile, it rotates clockwise. And the scratches from the ground are as if it had entered the ground, rotating counterclockwise. How can this be? Yes, simple. It entered the ground asshole first. If someone does not fumble at all in artillery, then I’ll open the secret - the shells fly nose forward and ass behind. Asshole flying forward shells currently is unique Ukrainian ammunition, analogues of which doesn't exist in the world.

   Further disclose the meaning of the word P....ts already charit me, to be honest. Then you have to talk about shitmortar, shitBogdana, shitnav and so on. There isn’t enough space on Facebook.

 

 

Quote

   As a cherry on a pile of manure, I’ll add another short video of firing a new Ukrainian shell at the Goncharovsky firing range. Due to the wildest imbalance, the projectile hit the muzzle brake, a strong blow damaged the muzzle brake, the fuse activated from the impact and after 100 milliseconds, as expected, it worked. At a distance of 80 meters. Providing full diapers of joy to the service staff of the gun. Thank God that fragmentation was about 10 fragments, not 28 thousand, or all we would be corpses.
   That's how we live. From one good news to another.

@N-L-M
You might enjoy this.

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Oh lawdy, thats like pre-HE burster effects. Thats fragmentation consistent with 1890s compressed black powder bursters.

At a guess I'd say theres either something terribly wrong with the HE chemistry, mix, or with the pressing. The shell imbalance lends credence to the latter 2 options.

This is the kind of shit the civilized world worked past in 1915, lel.

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   The first official recognition of the presence of Iskander-M with nuclear warhead.

 

   As the press service of the Eastern Military District reported on January 22, 2020, in Buryatia, the troops of the EMD missile units worked out the issues of delivering special ammunition to an area. The main objective of such classes is to work out the coordinated actions of transportation units with the crews of transport-loading machines of Iskander-M complexes for the delivery and transshipment of products, as well as their further shipment to designated areas.

/.../

   Comment by bmpd. We are talking about the 103rd separate missile Red Banner Brigade of the Eastern Military District, deployed in Ulan-Ude.

   As far as one can judge, this message is the first official recognition of the presence of nuclear ("special") warheads for the 9K720 Iskander-M combat-tactical missile system.

 

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3912162.html

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12 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

   Mortars are not the only thing that some of Ukrainian military equipment makers can fuck up.

https://diana-mihailova.livejournal.com/4423033.html

  

   More on the subject:

Quote

   Director of Thuringismus LLC (03142, Kiev, 4, Vaclav Havel Blvd., office 419) Vladimir Olegovich Shchetinin posted on his Facebook page information about problems when testing domestic 152-mm artillery shells for 2A36 systems ("Hyacinth-B") and 2S5 (" Hyacinth-S ").

 

   We are talking about testing artillery shells manufactured by the Artem State Chemical Company and the Rubin-2017 LLC.

   Commenting on domestic ammunition, Vladimir Schetinin drew attention to the fact that artillery shells of both manufacturers have a number of differences from the Soviet OF29:

- the shell is assembled from several parts;
- steel grade of the shell body;
- method of equipment with HE filler;
- another type of explosive.

 

   Since the projectile is assembled from 3 parts, this makes it impossible to shoot for ricochet - when it hits the ground, the projectile will fall apart, fragmentation, moment of inertia also change, which negatively affects the derivation and ballistics of the projectile.

 

   The steel grade from which it is made differs from the original, which negatively affected the creation of fragments after the detonation of ammunition.  The chief engineer of the company gave figures that after the detonation of Ukrainian shells of both manufacturers, about 100 fragments will form, while the Soviet OF29 - from 1700 to 2000. This is due to the use of low-carbon steel, whose chemical composition gives the material a high impact strength, which causes the formation of a small number of fragments after detonation.

   In addition, the shape of the fragments formed does not meet the necessary standards.

 

   Also, when testing the product, a number of violations of norms were found:

  • According to GOST, shells with a deviation of more than two weight marks from the norm are not allowed for test firing. Nevertheless, shells were fired with shells with 3 weight marks and even with 4;
  • According to GOST, the weighing of the product is conducted with a fuse installed. Weight for OF29 is 46 kg, while the product of LLC Rubin-2017 weighed 46 kg 600 grams without a fuse. With a fuse B-429, whose weight is 438 grams, an equipped shell weight is 47.038 kg, which corresponds to 4 weight marks (++++);

 

Jqm0EhW.jpg

 

Quote
  • Warm-up shooting was carried out by the Soviet OF29 projectile (reference). For LLC Rubin-2017 at a distance of 8000 meters, the distance between the reference and their product was more than 200 meters; 
  • The exit hole on the shield obtained when checking the safety of cocking the fuse at 60-80 meters showed that the ammunition produced by Rubin-2017 LLC is thrown at an angle;
  • Marks from the rifling of the projectile manufactured by Rubin-2017 LLC showed that the projectile is not centered and unbalanced, as indicated by the previous paragraph;
  • Recoil of the gun during the shot by the product of LLC Rubin-2017 does not comply with the standards.

   Also during the test, the manufacturer LLC Rubin-2017 refused to measure the internal pressure and the moment of inertia of the projectile. The center of gravity of the ammunition was not measured either.

 

Quote

   “After processing the results at the PMZ [Pavlogradsky Mechanical Plant”], fears were voiced that an unbalanced projectile manufactured by Rubin-2017 LLC could hit the gun and explode at the time of the shot. For this, the next test stage was assigned at the Goncharovsky training ground [242nd combined-arms training range of the operational command "North"], "said Shchetinin.

 

   During tests at the 242nd combined arms range, unbalanced ammunition hit the gun’s muzzle brake, damaging it and exploding in the air. The video from this event was made public by Olga Reshetilova.

   In general, several shells detonated abnormally.

 

   Regarding the explosive, Vladimir Schetinin added: “The shells are equipped with explosives adapted for such purposes, manufactured by the Pavlograd Chemical Plant [SE Pavlograd Chemical Plant]. This substance is not suitable for long-term storage and increases its volume over time, ” he said.

   Nevertheless, these shells are delivered to the troops and, according to the expert, pose a threat not only during firing, but even during storage.

 

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https://www.defensenews.com/land/2020/01/24/army-picks-6-to-work-on-autoloader-for-extended-range-cannon/

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The Army has picked six companies to work on concepts and designs for an autoloader for the service’s future Extended-Range Cannon Artillery (ERCA) program currently under development, according to a Jan. 24 Army Futures Command statement.

While the first ERCA cannons will be fielded in fiscal 2023, the goal is to begin fielding the system with an autoloader just one year later.

The companies — Actuate (formerly Aegis Systems, Inc.); Apptronik, Inc.; Carnegie Robotics LLC; Pratt & Miller Engineering; Neya Systems, LLC and Hivemapper, Inc. — will work under the Army Capability Accelerator and the Army Applications Laboratory (AAL) as part of the Field Artillery Autonomous Resupply (FAAR) “cohort” and will come up with novel, outside-of-the-box concepts for the autoloader.

 

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13 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

Bereg SPG and Rubezh AShM

Just wondering... what is the point of the Bereg system today? 23km range is quite miserable, only landing ships may come closer than that, and there are better weapons for destroying those (like the Rubezh). 

But on the other hand... The gun carrier is quite impressive, good gun, rate of fire, fire control and very high offroad mobility for a wheeled vehicle. Why wasnt this adopted for army use? All it would need is an itegration to army command & control systems, and of course better ammunition.

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3 minutes ago, heretic88 said:

Just wondering... what is the point of the Bereg system today? 23km range is quite miserable, only landing ships may come closer than that, and there are better weapons for destroying those (like the Rubezh). 

But on the other hand... The gun carrier is quite impressive, good gun, rate of fire, and fire control and very high mobility for a wheeled vehicle. Why wasnt this adopted for army use? All it would need is an itegration to army command & control systems, and of course better ammunition.

   Bereg would need Msta-S turret for Army service, or other turret but with 152 mm gun. Bereg is armed with 130 mm gun, Army don't use that caliber.

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   Some information about Bereg ("Coast") coastal defense system.

vafdUyG.jpg

   System consist of 3 vehicle types - SPGs, command post vehicle and "Combat duty support vehicle". On a photo above SPG is on the left and command vehicle with radar and optical-laser rangefiner module deployed is on the right.

 

hEwC7la.jpg

   SPG part of Bereg coastal defence system

 

tALxtpM.jpg

   Support vehicle

 

M3DufTy.jpg

   Command vehicle. Note bigger box above driver cabin (air conditioning) and big ventilation grills between 1st and 2nd wheels, they will allow to tell apart support and command vehicle.

 

Spoiler

Ub0WMyx.jpg

   Upper part of the picture shows command vehicle layout. Vehicle have radar station and FCS for several SPGs. FCS can track 4 targets using radar (35 km max range of detection) and optical system. 2 targets can be actively engaged using command vehicle FCS (SPGs in "slave" mode) by SPGs in the same time.

 

e0o1G6N.jpg

   Command vehicle (2) can detect targets with radar (or optical-electronic system) or by air recon (5/6) and give fire solutions of 2 targets for SPGs to fire at. Basically, command vehicle provide target detection and information link to other forces, coordinates (incl. automatically) SPG fire against enemies (2 targets in the same time) while keeping eye on 2 more (4 in total can be tracked and FCS can switch fire between any of those 4 in very short amount of time). SPGs have their own FCS, but it can be slaved to CV. It was noted that datalink and target detection system can work in EW enviroment, although it doesn't say more than that.

 

0lGeAwo.jpg

 

   So that was system as a whole, now about each vehicle:

   SPG

Spoiler

V8GyX3Z.jpg

   MAK A-222 130 mm SPG of the Bereg costal defense system.

 

   Gun is 130 mm A-222, range - over 20 km, SPG ammoload is 40 unitary shells. Cannon is mounted in 360 degr. rotatable turret, although for firing main gun 120 degrees sector is allowed as safe arc.  The turret have space for the crew: 4 loaders, gunner and commander. The command post is provided with a control unit for all internal and external systems of SPG and a full range of instruments for guidance, surveillance, firing and communications. 

   The gunner’s position is provided with observation equipment, gun controls, communication and lighting control devices. Two loader positions are located near the feed trays along the gun barrel. The other two loaders are located near the ammorack and ammunition loading device. There are 2 stacks for 40 unitary ammunition in total in the turret. The inner part of the turret has a synthetic coating - to absorb external sound and heat.

 

6sMdrrp.jpg

 

   For aiming cannon, an electromechanical system with the following guidance modes is used:

- automatic mode - SPG FCS receive digital data from the command vehicle;
- semi-automatic mode - carried out by the gunner using sighting equipment of SPG vehicle;
Semi-automatic mode is used in case of loss of communication with CV and support vehicles.

 

R5FZ85T.jpg

   Before firing, self-propelled guns are leveled by 4 jacks, which provide the chassis with the necessary rigidity during combat use. It is possible to move when firing - it will be taken into account by the system of introduced amendments, which includes an optical sensor and roll sensors.

 

4ljeZmB.jpg

 

   Each SPG have ballistic computer, commander's optoelectronic sight, gunner's sight and laser rangefinder.

 

njqSqcH.jpg

 

   Command vehicle

Spoiler

rqbBgRG.jpg

 

   The central post (command vehicle) includes: the BR-136 "Podacha" fire control system with optoelectronic and radar channels for detecting and tracking detected targets, communication and life support equipment. Fire control system provides a predetermined or circular observation of the coastal situation at any time, day or night. FCS can carry out the detection and management of objects with active or passive counter-action.

   FCS features:

- tracking up to 4 targets;
- providing firing solution by any self-propelled guns at 2 targets, both at sea and on land.

 

   After firing at one of the targets, the BR-136 fire control system can instantly organize firing at the next tracked target. BR-136 calculates parameters of all self-propelled guns according to the motion parameters of the detected objects, using the central aiming mode, the correction system and the assessment of the self-propelled guns range from the central post. SPGs can be located no more than 1 km away from CV.

 

   All calculations take place automatically, as well as the adjustment of firing. The FCS of Bereg system provides self-propelled guns firing both with single shots and a burst of 4 to 12 rounds/min. The commander observes the combat situation by the azimuth-range indicator, or receives the necessary information from observation points, or from a spotter helicopter. The documentation of firing is automatic.

 

   The maximum detection range of surface targets by radar is 35 km. The error in determining the full angles is 3 mrd. The time to bring the BR-136 to combat readiness is 3 minutes.

   In case of failure of the central post or BR-136 FCS, each SPG can work independently. 

 

c7rl8Xx.jpg

 

   The central post itself is divided into 5 compartments:
- the engine compartment, where the diesel-electric emergency power unit and the converter are located to provide power supply to BR-136;
- the antenna post (compartment), where the transceiver equipment of the FCS is located (radar, optical system);
- a high-frequency compartment, which has a special screening from microwave radiation;
- a radio operator compartment, where information processing devices and places for a radio operator and an electric driver were located. The place of the electric driver is equipped with a diesel generator control panel, power supply, life support system;

- an operators compartment in which the seats for the commander of the entire art complex, the commander of the central post, foreman, electrician, and radiometer are equipped. The commander’s position A-222 “Bank” have equipment for navigation, signaling, communications and surveillance. Nearby are made folding tables for working with topographic maps. The commander and foremanof positions are equipped with communication and fire control devices. The places of the electrician and the radiometer are equipped with devices for tracking the detected targets, monitoring and communication.

uRlwV2X.jpg

 

   Support vehicle:

Spoiler

4Z7qQJ9.jpg

 

A combat duty support vehicle consists of:
- a removable power supply unit. It has two diesel-electric stations with insulated neutral, for supplying electricity to the central post;
- fuel tanks for diesel engines with the calculation of continuous operation for a week;
- 2 and 4-seater coupe for relaxation;
- 4-man dining room;
- kitchens with a stock for a week;
- turret machine gun mount 7.62 mm caliber on the roof;
- special equipment for signaling of radiation-chemical weapons use;
- navigation equipment;
- lockers for storing various property of personnel

 

eF1KoKz.jpg

   2nd vehicle, turret is visible on the roof.

 

FagF0Lk.jpg

 

   Also

Quote

   Contrary to popular belief, coastal gun mounts cannot be replaced by coastal guided missile systems. Guided missiles and artillery systems do not replace each other, but only complement each other. All coastal defense cruise missile systems have dead zones from several kilometers to several tens of kilometers. Missiles are much more affected by active enemy interference, can be shot down by air defense systems of ships. Cruise missiles are ineffective in skerry areas and, finally, they are much more expensive than artillery shells, especially when firing at small-tonnage and landing craft. For example, during the hostilities in Abkhazia, both Georgians and Abkhazians armed small boats and other watercraft, the cost of which is much less than Termit or P-35 missiles.

 

 

   Random pictures

Spoiler

wuWexxn.jpg

 

DtTIhXL.jpg

 

7UMEV6t.jpg

 

IqbUFMZ.jpg

 

EtQDkYg.jpg

 

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