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ATGMs and RPGs for infantry - a thread for rebels around the world to choose their ATGM supplier.

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On 16.08.2017 at 2:50 AM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Didn't notice this posted earlier, ISIS RPG @ approx. 10min onward, includes assembly footage:

 

https://videos.files.wordpress.com/tHQHwQTc/the-islamic-state-22we-will-surely-guide-them-to-our-ways-wilacc84yat-nicc84nawacc8422_dvd.mp4

 

Suspect I may get LooSeRed here.  ;)

Yeah, you are :D in one of earlier pages there is also a description of what each RPG is.

 

Quote

Spike ATGM in Iraq....
Allegedly pics of Belgium SOF near Tal Afar

DHu8TbKXkAAsDi4.jpg

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MBT LAW firing:
 

 

At about 2:14 a live-fire demonstration showing the top-attack mode starts.

I am not clear on how the "guidance" on this system works.  It sounds like it is largely inertial; i.e. the rocket corrects its flight in order to fly in a straight line, and the predictive sight allows a target moving on a constant heading and speed to be lead, but it cannot track a target that changes course.  But I am not sure about that.

If that is how it works, it is an interesting hybrid between a heavy, unguided RPG, and a proper ATGM.

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So, last night I learned about Swingfire.  I had heard of it before, but had mentally filed it away as just another mid Cold War wire-guided ATGM.  It turns out that the design had some unique capabilities that no other wire-guided missile shared, and that quite a few missiles with more advanced guidance also lack.

Capabilities like making a ninety degree turn immediately after being fired:

NFrTFq5.png

This article has more.
 

 

The abrupt in-flight turn that the thrust vectoring allowed would open some interesting possibilities for IFV design.  Instead of agonizing about how to armor the ATGM box, the ATGM launcher could simply be placed behind the turret, firing over it.

It was also possible to remotely locate the tracking station and guidance by several meters.  This would greatly improve infantry survivability when using ATGMs.

 

 



An interesting approach would be to have a vertically-launched missile that turns towards the target by aerodynamic means.  If the rocket motor firing could be kept brief enough to hide the entire burn of the rocket motor behind defilade, UV light from the rocket motor would not trigger MAWS and their attendant APS.

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1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

 Instead of agonizing about how to armor the ATGM box, the ATGM launcher could simply be placed behind the turret, firing over it.

 

A pair of vertical launch silos in the sponsons would be neat, and easy to isolate from the passengers

 

1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:


An interesting approach would be to have a vertically-launched missile that turns towards the target by aerodynamic means.  If the rocket motor firing could be kept brief enough to hide the entire burn of the rocket motor behind defilade, UV light from the rocket motor would not trigger MAWS and their attendant APS.

 

I'm not sure if this is possible without turning the launch tube into a cannon. I wonder if there are any analogues to sunblock that block UV-C and could be sprayed from the missile body to hide the exhaust?

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1 hour ago, Xlucine said:

 

A pair of vertical launch silos in the sponsons would be neat, and easy to isolate from the passengers

 

 

I'm not sure if this is possible without turning the launch tube into a cannon. I wonder if there are any analogues to sunblock that block UV-C and could be sprayed from the missile body to hide the exhaust?



Not sure if a conventional ATGM would fit vertically inside a sponson.  They're rather lengthy.

I am not opposed to turning vehicle-fired ATGMs into guided mortar rounds.  It might make them a bit more compact.  With the exception of Swingfire, the motor burning for a few seconds after launch doesn't really do anything.

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They're lengthy, (about 1.1m for swingfire and javelin per wiki), but IFV's are getting taller. It's a nice convenient space that doesn't foul the troop compartment and can be far enough away from the turret to avoid and turret overhang (although you probably can't have it clear the gun barrel). Another alternative is bolted onto the back either side of the door, where you normally see stowage bins

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http://www.janes.com/article/74633/german-special-forces-receive-rgw-90

 

1709197_-_main.jpg

 

The weapon was handed over to Lieutenant General Frank Leidenberger, commander of German multinational corps contingents and basic military organisation, who described the RGW 90 as a "quantum leap because it has an accuracy close to 100% at 300-600 m. Its effects are scaleable and therefore adjustable according to its target."

 

Oh... this is an updated ARMBRUST. Ok.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATADOR

 

And it has a neat variant for breaching, from the wiki:

 

MATADOR-WB

Specialised wall-breaching weapon, featuring an Explosively-Formed Ring (EFR) warhead that breaches a man-sized hole, between 75 cm (30 in) to 100 cm (39 in) across, in typical urban walls.[5]

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22291169_1344632365660156_3798699350820516620_o.jpg?oh=fefe60721883a7ed68b9ff0b6770d778&oe=5A7635BB

Ukrainian RPG-7s at AUSA-2017 expo. Second one looks vey much like US-produced RPG-7s.

They also brought with them those:

22382102_1344632232326836_5744436827603353547_o.jpg?oh=fcba562f21c1e5394f37762011d20402&oe=5A88B123

Surprised that they did not explode.

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On 09.09.2017 at 12:51 AM, Collimatrix said:

MBT LAW firing:
 

 

At about 2:14 a live-fire demonstration showing the top-attack mode starts.

I am not clear on how the "guidance" on this system works.  It sounds like it is largely inertial; i.e. the rocket corrects its flight in order to fly in a straight line, and the predictive sight allows a target moving on a constant heading and speed to be lead, but it cannot track a target that changes course.  But I am not sure about that.

If that is how it works, it is an interesting hybrid between a heavy, unguided RPG, and a proper ATGM.

 

   Apperently about 20 years ago we worked on similar system, called "Avtanomia", from otvaga.

dfKIi.jpg

 

XZICS.jpg

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   The Avtanomia [Autonomy] complex combines the best characteristics of unguided AT rockets as simple design, immunity against jammers/interference, fire and forget, and guided anti-tank missiles - high probability of hitting target, powerfull warhead. The complex allow to hit tanks directly and from above using apropriate warheads.       

   Flight control system have autopilot of angular stabilization with gas jet control cooperating with supersonic flow from engine.

   Missile had 3 types of warheads - EFP (8.5 kg warhead, 15 kg and 1250mm long missile, 19.5 kg full system) and HE-Frag warhead (same characteristics) that could be used to attack targets from above, and tandem HEAT (5.2 kg warhead, 10 kg 1 meter long missile, 14.5 kg full system) to hit tanks in "direct" mode.

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On 10.10.2017 at 8:02 AM, Belesarius said:

Oh... this is an updated ARMBRUST. Ok.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATADOR

 

And it has a neat variant for breaching, from the wiki:

 

MATADOR-WB

Specialised wall-breaching weapon, featuring an Explosively-Formed Ring (EFR) warhead that breaches a man-sized hole, between 75 cm (30 in) to 100 cm (39 in) across, in typical urban walls.[5]

 

Not really. These are actually diferent weapon systems. The newly adopted weapon is known as Wirkmittel 90 by the manufacturer. While designated RGW-90 (recoilless grenade weapon) LRMP (long-range multipurpose) in the German Army (MATADOR variants are also known as RGW-90), they are not identical. The RGW-90 LRMP/Wirkmittel 90 is not compatible with current MATADOR ammunition and MATADOR ammo might not work on the RGW-90 LRMP launcher (essentially the LRMP uses a sight with its own fire control system integrated into the unit, while the corresponding ammunition has an electronic interface to set the firing mode).

 

 

The RGW-90 LRMP has a range of up to 1,200 metres, but above 600 metres distance it is limited to the air-burst mode. Essentially there are only three types of ammunition available (multipurpose round, training round and also IR-illumination, but the latter type might not have been adopted yet). The multipurpose round can be fired either in a HE-fragmentation mode (impact fuze), a special HESH mode and an air-burst mode.

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