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LoooSeR

ATGMs and RPGs for infantry - a thread for rebels around the world to choose their ATGM supplier.

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Also looking up the specs of Russian 43mm grenades they contain 3.5x more boom than your typical 40mm

 

 http://armamentresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/The-Russian-GM-94-Grenade-Launcher.pdf

 

"VGM93.100 – Thermobaric (FAE) round, containing some 160 g of explosive filling. The impact fuze arms approximately 3 metres from the muzzle. The lethal blast radius is 3 metres, and the minimum safe distance from the impact point is approximately 10 metres.8 Upon impact, this round can penetrate up to 8 mm of mild steel or interior wall with its blast, while producing almost no primary fragments. "

 

VS

 

45 g Composition A in 40mm HEDP,  because we expect grenadiers to be antiarmor guys by shooting their individual GL into the back of a BMP as it drives by right? 

 40mm_M433_00.jpg

 

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html

 

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37 minutes ago, Vicious_CB said:

 

What kind of problems? Im generally against adding anymore complexity and weight to GL since the best use of a GL is as a secondary or specialty weapon. A completely stripped down M320 in a thigh holster is currently the best option for an individual GL in western forces. I see the GM-94 strapped to back of squad designated grenadier as a much better option than strapping the GL to his rifle or giving the poor guy a Milkor much like a breaching shotgun. 

 

Spoiler

csm_GLM416_re_960d72f14c.png

 

 

   GM-94 is not very well designed and made. It have strange quirks. You can't load a grenade directly into the barrel, so you need to load it n magazine than work the action to get it into barrel. Next thing is that loading itself is not really convinient, at least according to Karden. Parts that rub grenades are not polished, so incertion of grenades is not a comfortable activity. I also heard that it have several parts not machined well enough and they can cut skin when you work with it. There is number of other things that SF guys are doing that should be taken into account.

 

   First (and small) thing is that not many find fire mode selector to be readable during combat. That's why they do this:

Spoiler

mBUWXj0AbpE.jpg

 

   Second thing - and this is why i am speaking about FCS - they also add a lot of optics on their GM-94s.

Spoiler

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jbWDvqUIldg.jpg

   Holo Sights + night vision or magnifiers are not that unusual to see used on GM-94s. Maybe they do need something better than just oldschool iron sights?

 

   And it is not like they only use newer sights, they also make similar contraptions even for single-shot disposal RPGs

Spoiler

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WSFh2oSl3hY.jpg

 

   Army is already working on RPG with a sight with build-in FCS. Why not GM-94?

Spoiler

YRL779oBOQw.jpg

 

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The EU Beyond Line Of Sigh (BLOS) PESCO project will be based on the MMP

 

Quote

The project aims at developing an EU new generation medium range BLOS Land Battlefield missile systems family.

The output is intended to be integrated on an extensive variety of platforms (ground to ground and air to ground) and to provide integrated and autonomous target designation capability.

The project includes joint training and formation aspects.

Dedicated “users’ club” is envisioned develop a common European doctrine on BLOS firing.

 

Core member states are France, Belgium and Cyprus

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Polish FragOut! edition whit my article about Javelin vs Spike (page 52)

https://fragout.uberflip.com/i/1055276-frag-out-magazine-22-pl/0?

In polish but it may be intresting for users here. Whole is based on Javelin and Spike test in Poland - both system are offered in "Pustelnik" program for new "light" ATGM for WOT forces and for Army.

 

UzVUuOj.png

 

 

 

 

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Spike LR is much better. Fire & observe mode makes all the difference. Basically when firing Javelin you have to see the target to lock on(that also endangers operator of enemy fire, where in case of Spike you can hide safely behind a hill and engage targets BLoS)  which limits the effective range to about 800-1500m(typical LoS in eastern Europe) and after you fire you can't deliberately miss the target so there is a high chance of destroying own vehicles. Can you tell a difference between T-72B3 and PT-91 at a distance of 1-1.5km? Include bad weather conditions which would radically decrease visibility. On the other hand you can fire Spike manually and make sure you will hit enemy vehicle, not yours or redirect missile into more important target you have just detected. You don't have to see the target before you fire and you can make use of the full range of Spike. That's my short take on this. I'm sure that @Militarysta can elaborate more on this.

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On 11/30/2018 at 9:53 PM, Collimatrix said:

Thanks for posting this.

 

From the paper stats, it does not appear that Spike LR is as effortlessly superior to Javelin Block 1 as I would have guessed.  What is your take?

Mostly like Valyron said - in polish terrain condition and whit polish army structure - Spike is mucht better.

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On 12/19/2018 at 11:44 AM, Militarysta said:

May be usefull:

English version FragOut! whit my article Javelin vs Spike:

 

https://fragout.uberflip.com/i/1064315-frag-out-magazine-22/0?

 

page 48.

 

An excellent, detailed analysis. Thank you very much for providing an English version. Much appreciated! 

Cheers

Marsh

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Jordan started production of license copy of Ukrainian Korsar ATGM.

1662452_original.jpg

 

Quote

In 2018, the Jordanian company Jadara Equipment began the licensed production of its own version of the Ukrainian light Korsar ATGM developed by Luch Design Bureau. The complex was named Jadara Terminator. The Jordanian version of the ATGM has a slightly modified aiming complex with a thermal imager and a tripod adapted for sandy soils.

 

1662732_original.jpg

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