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Anti-air thread: Everything that goes up must come down, and we'll help you go down


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On 6/30/2020 at 12:53 AM, Calicifer said:

Drones provide negligible combat value and are not in mainstream service yet. Most of high profile projects are still under development. It will take a good decade when such things as drone artillery spotters, tanks using drones to extend their awareness or when drones will be able to perform roles of more complex machinery like military aircraft or submarines. 


I think you will find these informative/educational (just press play and the relevant section will start):
 

 

Bear in mind that this information is now ~6 years old, that the UAS arena has not remained stagnant in that time and that it continues to develop now...

 

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Austrian Orelikon 35mm Zwillingsfliegerabwehrkanonen 85 firing     

Don't have any pictures unfortunately but I was reading a French document ( http://1951.polytechnique.org/URL/Launet_DCA.pdf) on anti-aircraft warfare and it reported that the French had a project to

"Roman" SPAAG for VDV on modified 7-roller BMD-3 chassis, was under development in 90s and prototype was shown in 1995. Roman was basically lighter version of Tunguska with less missiles and cannons.

Hungary signed a letter of intent with USA for purchase of NASAMS system. Most likely four batteries and 180 missiles. Source in Czech: https://www.armadninoviny.cz/madarsko-koupi-systemy-protivzdusne-obrany-nasams.html

 

Czech Republic will buy four batteries soon as well but it hasn't been yet decided of which system. I think that the other option is Spyder. One of the advantages of NASAMS is that AMRAAM is already used by our airforce while the advantage of Spyder is that it's already integrated on Tatra chassis which will be definitely one of the MOD requirements. 

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On 8/12/2020 at 5:25 AM, roguetechie said:

 

I'm not gonna lie, this is a way stupider take than your comments in the f35 thread.

 

Not only does beer disagree with you but the Ukrainian army does too. So do the syrians, the Iraqis, the afghanis, the houthi and a fuck ton of other people too on account of them getting their shit wrecked repeatedly by drones of a shockingly wide variety!

 

How the fuck have you managed to miss the last 2 decades?

 

By being realistic and following what is actually deployed in a field. Combat is still completely dominated by conventional armament. Drones there are either experimental and very few in number or completely absent. The only niche where they exist in force is in aerial reconnaissance. 

 

I had read again my previous messages and wording there isn't clear or correct. I had in mind that drones are either quite niche and are limited in their use. In addition, most combat roles are still done by more conventional assets. This was a very general comment meant to be taken in most generic terms. First, what you are showcasing here IS cutting edge development of only one nation. Secondly, how much drones are procured and put into service across the globe. Most of what is proccurred are small reconnaissance variants. Outside of notable exception of Predator, most nations procure negligible UAVs if they even include them in their arsenal in more than a token fashion. UAVs like Ravens, Pumas are go to types of UAVs when it comes to drones.That was my bad for using imprecise wording, this is why some folks had jumped on me. When I was talking about them, I primary meant that generally most militaries do no have sufficient air coverage. Cheap, low capabilities stationary guns will see a massive comeback as nowadays they are crucial in protecting all assets from drone reconnaissance via shooting them out of sky. Due to lack of proper AA defenses, we are seeing BUK's missiles being used in taking down 10 times cheaper target or massive Ukraine's ammunition storrages being destroyed due to UAVs simply because there are no effective AA coverage. 

 

I had watched videos attached here, they both are the same, just different presentations. It did provided some interesting insight in cutting edge warfare evolution. 

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On 8/16/2020 at 6:31 PM, Calicifer said:

 

By being realistic and following what is actually deployed in a field. Combat is still completely dominated by conventional armament. Drones there are either experimental and very few in number or completely absent. The only niche where they exist in force is in aerial reconnaissance. 

 

I had read again my previous messages and wording there isn't clear or correct. I had in mind that drones are either quite niche and are limited in their use. In addition, most combat roles are still done by more conventional assets. This was a very general comment meant to be taken in most generic terms. First, what you are showcasing here IS cutting edge development of only one nation. Secondly, how much drones are procured and put into service across the globe. Most of what is proccurred are small reconnaissance variants. Outside of notable exception of Predator, most nations procure negligible UAVs if they even include them in their arsenal in more than a token fashion. UAVs like Ravens, Pumas are go to types of UAVs when it comes to drones.That was my bad for using imprecise wording, this is why some folks had jumped on me. When I was talking about them, I primary meant that generally most militaries do no have sufficient air coverage. Cheap, low capabilities stationary guns will see a massive comeback as nowadays they are crucial in protecting all assets from drone reconnaissance via shooting them out of sky. Due to lack of proper AA defenses, we are seeing BUK's missiles being used in taking down 10 times cheaper target or massive Ukraine's ammunition storrages being destroyed due to UAVs simply because there are no effective AA coverage. 

 

I had watched videos attached here, they both are the same, just different presentations. It did provided some interesting insight in cutting edge warfare evolution. 

 

Sure the drones have tough life if the opponent has proper AA network BUT lack of the "proper AA coverage" is a very real thing which exists far more often than it doesn't. In fact it's rare when the "proper AA coverage" exists. Even most of the US bases in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan have little to no defence against drones. 

 

Drones are extremely effective tools especially considering their cost compared to the manned aircraft and much longer time they can spend in the air. Also since many drone types are cheap and disposable they can be easily sent to a suicide mission where shooting down the manned aircraft would create political problems. Often it's enough if such drone finds the enemy, it doesn't need to get back home. The rest is job of the artillery or airforce or whomever else. Exchanging a wrecked quadrocopter or small drones like Orlan-M for anihiliating a howitzer battery or an infantry company is a pretty good deal for me and that's what happens over and over again in all current wars. Not speaking at all about the use of strategic assests like MQ-4/RQ-4. 

 

Just for the record.

 

- Iranian suicide drones (combined with several cruise missiles) managed to take out the largest oil rafinery in the world defended by two batteries of Patriot and three batteries of older SAMs and made it out of order for two months. Aside of that they scored a lot of other spectacular hits against the Saudi, Emirati, Sudanese or Hadi's army killing several generals or destroying aircraft on the ground. 

- Turkish drones scored dozens of AFV kills on Syrian army in Idlib and by that virtually stopped the offensive of SAA; in doing so they also managed to take out plenty of artillery pieces and even anti-aircraft asests including several Pantsirs-S1 (arguably most of them were not in ready to fire mode but anyway). 

- Turkish drones completely wrecked Haftar's attempt to take Tripoli and played a key role in the counteroffensive in which GNA took al Watiyah airbase and other large areas. Again the drones managed to take out several Pantsirs-S1 in the process (most of them again not in ready-to-fire mode but that doesn't really matter). 

- US drones took out endless number of various militia and terror group commanders in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia or elsewhere. 

- Russian drones are responsible for thousands of killed men in Ukraine, Syria or Lybia by assisting the artillery and airforce, especially in combination with guided artillery ammo they have been deadly. And it's absolutely not negligible when your entire batallion goes to hell in a matter of minutes (not a division but it was anyway a massive disaster for the UA army - just google pictures for Zelenopolye). 

- Iranian UCAVs scored many hits on IS targets in Iraq and Syria.  

- French drones helped to kill the leader of AQ in Maghreb.  

- Azeri and Armenian drones are responsible for most of the killing in Nagorno Karabakh border by spotting the targets for the artillery. 

- Even IS improvized drones managed to take out ammo dumps, AFVs including one Abrams (by direct hit into an opened hatch), artillery pieces or troops. 

 

 

 

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And there we go, as beer has so ably pointed out, calcifiers seems completely unaware of what drones are for and just how amazingly successful they've been.

 

If your not even aware of what their place is on the battlefield, you probably shouldn't be commenting about them in such an attempted authoritative fashion.

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On 8/17/2020 at 11:33 PM, roguetechie said:

You somehow missed the part of the war where an entire Ukrainian division got localized then annihilated by a massive cross border artillery barrage apparently...

 

Your shit takes are the shittiest takes.

 

That is basically like...any modern combat since cold war. Replace word: ''drone'' with a recon team with a radio set and you will have a same thing. I would argue that similar capabilities existed since WW2 as artillery barrages and infantry collaboration had achieved quite high standard at the end of WW2. Drones in this case do not provide anything revolutionary in terms of capabilities, if we would use any other system in its place we would receive the same results. It is also completely superfluous as drone in that case did not provided something which more conventional system could not do just as well. It however is an improvement over our existing capabilities. However, outside of few exceptions, most high end drone projects are still being developed and I predict that it is during 20's to 30's when we are going to see a serious rise in drone warfare. A good indication of that are all those high profile drone systems being developed like Poseidon or X45 series developments, Tanaris, ACV-30 Korkut. However, my point was that in modern combat drones do not take a serious role. They are superficial in modern warfare and outside of some niche roles, militaries across the globe either do not have much of a drone inventory and can do perfectly without them or they do have large drone inventory, but most of them are small reconnaissance drones. There are notable exceptions however, but an exception does not make a rule. Examples which were provided was against an adversary without basic capabilities like air monitoring capabilities and defense. I do however did not considered their use in hybrid warfare where their role is a lot greater and they serve as an improvised replacement for more capable platforms. 

 

Quote

And there we go, as beer has so ably pointed out, calcifiers seems completely unaware of what drones are for and just how amazingly successful they've been.

 

If your not even aware of what their place is on the battlefield, you probably shouldn't be commenting about them in such an attempted authoritative fashion.

 

I could offer same advice and to you. You seem to be awfully eager to judge me without even bothering to understand what I'm saying or to fully read all my comments in a same thread. However, his comment did not disproved anything I had said. He had even proven partly of what I was saying. As for whatever a person should have right to express himself. Well, nobody knows everything. Top officials also make a lot of mistakes and poor judgement calls. Sometimes I'm astounded by stupidity of those people due to statements they make on media. Your view is very technocratic however and I find this forum to be very traditionalist in terms of unwavering support of ongoing developmental efforts and people do have a strong tendency to attack or dislike anyone daring to critique the establishment. In our case it would be government, research teams, military, projects. 

 

I also believe that a lot of hate coming my way is at least partly unwarranted. I do support same projects like F-35. I do think that drones are the future. Our views are different only on some more complex and niche topics like: Do drones provide significant combat value in conventional war environment? Would a properly set up defense of Mantis system would negate all drone activity all together? However, my highly critical outlook on those subjects do make me a target. I do understand that not all communities enjoy more negative and thought provoking people. However, I do think that this forum needs to change as it will die out as all the other similar hardcore forums had died out. It is happened even now, take a look at how many new threads were created (there are very few new threads popping out). Take a look at how active and serious those people are (most veterans are content with posting low effort content posts, no analysis, no insightful comments, no opinions), forum is already becoming a vegetable if it isn't one yet. I also saw other new guy being viciously attacked and harassed for smallest, unspecified mistakes. Not only you have no new blood coming in, but you also actively attacking anyone new by default who do not fit into your very specific mindset which you had set for this forum. Without new blood you will eventually die out.

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On 8/18/2020 at 1:23 AM, Beer said:

Sure the drones have tough life if the opponent has proper AA network BUT lack of the "proper AA coverage" is a very real thing which exists far more often than it doesn't. In fact it's rare when the "proper AA coverage" exists. Even most of the US bases in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan have little to no defence against drones. 

 

Drones are extremely effective tools especially considering their cost compared to the manned aircraft and much longer time they can spend in the air. Also since many drone types are cheap and disposable they can be easily sent to a suicide mission where shooting down the manned aircraft would create political problems. Often it's enough if such drone finds the enemy, it doesn't need to get back home. The rest is job of the artillery or airforce or whomever else. Exchanging a wrecked quadrocopter or small drones like Orlan-M for anihiliating a howitzer battery or an infantry company is a pretty good deal for me and that's what happens over and over again in all current wars. Not speaking at all about the use of strategic assests like MQ-4/RQ-4.

 

Hmm, I was not considering hybrid warfare seriously. I was thinking more in terms of an official war with major nations clashing with each other. Modern AA systems are insane and would melt all those drones with ease, however they are too expensive to fire at drones. This is why I think that low caliber SPAAG systems would see a return. 

 

However, I do think that you raised a good point which I did not considered before. Drones play a huge role in a hybrid warfare. 

 

On 8/18/2020 at 1:23 AM, Beer said:

Just for the record.

 

 

I appreciate your examples, however some of them only prove my initial point that we need low caliber autocannons to deal with new drone threat. Patriot and other older SAMs are not designed to deal with such threats. Furthermore, I still fail to see how drones were instrumental in your examples. To me it just seem as poor man's improvisation of cruise missiles. How any of those strikes could not be done better with having few cruise missiles in your inventory? In this, drones are just as menacing as cruise missiles from 80's and UAVs of that time. In fact, UAVs existed throughout the cold war, but do we hear about how important they were? They did became the hype in recent years. However, this is due to rise of hybrid warfare where nations do not want to risk lives of their personal.

 

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7 hours ago, Calicifer said:

 

That is basically like...any modern combat since cold war. Replace word: ''drone'' with a recon team with a radio set and you will have a same thing. I would argue that similar capabilities existed since WW2 as artillery barrages and infantry collaboration had achieved quite high standard at the end of WW2. Drones in this case do not provide anything revolutionary in terms of capabilities, if we would use any other system in its place we would receive the same results. It is also completely superfluous as drone in that case did not provided something which more conventional system could not do just as well. It however is an improvement over our existing capabilities. However, outside of few exceptions, most high end drone projects are still being developed and I predict that it is during 20's to 30's when we are going to see a serious rise in drone warfare. A good indication of that are all those high profile drone systems being developed like Poseidon or X45 series developments, Tanaris, ACV-30 Korkut. However, my point was that in modern combat drones do not take a serious role. They are superficial in modern warfare and outside of some niche roles, militaries across the globe either do not have much of a drone inventory and can do perfectly without them or they do have large drone inventory, but most of them are small reconnaissance drones. There are notable exceptions however, but an exception does not make a rule. Examples which were provided was against an adversary without basic capabilities like air monitoring capabilities and defense. I do however did not considered their use in hybrid warfare where their role is a lot greater and they serve as an improvised replacement for more capable platforms. 

 

 

I could offer same advice and to you. You seem to be awfully eager to judge me without even bothering to understand what I'm saying or to fully read all my comments in a same thread. However, his comment did not disproved anything I had said. He had even proven partly of what I was saying. As for whatever a person should have right to express himself. Well, nobody knows everything. Top officials also make a lot of mistakes and poor judgement calls. Sometimes I'm astounded by stupidity of those people due to statements they make on media. Your view is very technocratic however and I find this forum to be very traditionalist in terms of unwavering support of ongoing developmental efforts and people do have a strong tendency to attack or dislike anyone daring to critique the establishment. In our case it would be government, research teams, military, projects. 

 

I also believe that a lot of hate coming my way is at least partly unwarranted. I do support same projects like F-35. I do think that drones are the future. Our views are different only on some more complex and niche topics like: Do drones provide significant combat value in conventional war environment? Would a properly set up defense of Mantis system would negate all drone activity all together? However, my highly critical outlook on those subjects do make me a target. I do understand that not all communities enjoy more negative and thought provoking people. However, I do think that this forum needs to change as it will die out as all the other similar hardcore forums had died out. It is happened even now, take a look at how many new threads were created (there are very few new threads popping out). Take a look at how active and serious those people are (most veterans are content with posting low effort content posts, no analysis, no insightful comments, no opinions), forum is already becoming a vegetable if it isn't one yet. I also saw other new guy being viciously attacked and harassed for smallest, unspecified mistakes. Not only you have no new blood coming in, but you also actively attacking anyone new by default who do not fit into your very specific mindset which you had set for this forum. Without new blood you will eventually die out.

 

Bold of you to assume you have advice worth giving, especially when you are completely tone deaf to what people are saying to you as well as the actual tone of the forum.

 

Your comments about uav's not being revolutionary is especially funny when you turn around and accuse people of being blindly technocratic.

 

The whole point of uav's for the most part right now is to do the things we used to do other ways better, faster, cheaper, with less manpower, much lower latency, much higher certainty, over much larger areas, and In a much more usable and effective way.

 

In that respect, they have been wildly successful almost beyond expectations. Your inability to grock that everyone here is far more aware of their limitations and weak points is not winning you friends nor is it making you come off as anything like intelligent. On the plus side, it is slightly less cringe than your constant talk of being more informed than public officials tasked with decision making and guiding development decisions. You definitely aren't by the way, you need to understand that.

 

A great example is your surprise and wonderment at drones being a great tool in the hybrid warfare toolbox. They're also great in COIN operations other than war and probably most importantly in the role of dealing with gathering ISR and a myriad of other missions involving hostile nations we don't want a shooting war with.

 

Especially now that under the new normal we find ourselves in, people can potshot and outright steal each other's drones without even the slightest risk of it triggering an escalation spiral.

 

And herein lies the issue people here have with you. You are falsely under the impression that you are far smarter and more knowledgeable than you actually are. You preach to people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know and chide them about their stances on things you're plainly far out of your depth on.

 

I'm by far one of the least intelligent and well read people here and yet my knowledge is still encyclopedic In comparison with your own. 

 

If you were to actually go through my post history here though, outside of my very limited areas of knowledge, you'd see that I tend to be the one asking more questions than answering.

 

At the same time though, you'll find that my posts also clearly show in their wording that I've went out and looked for answers/data to back up my stance on a subject even if it's outside my field.

 

Honestly, if you actually want to get something out of this forum you should be spending much more time reading existing posts and rhe links etc in those posts before you jump in and try to "educate" people who actually know the things you think you know.

 

Your comments in this thread pretty plainly show that your own internal ideas of what uav's are supposed to be and do are very divergent from what they actually are. This should have given you pause and made you stop to consider whether you actually know what you think you do instead of triggering you to post wildly laughable admonishments and batshit insane proclamations.

 

You're either going to actually learn how to be a good poster here or you'll go back to whatever shithole forums you came from. 

 

The choice is yours.

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On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

Bold of you to assume you have advice worth giving, especially when you are completely tone deaf to what people are saying to you as well as the actual tone of the forum.

 

Oh, but I do. My points are awfully specific which indicates that I had read something somewhere before. The problem is that I have to talk about really basic stuff to you people. Like that army had integration with artillery branch since WW2 and could call artillery strike on target within minutes. Some people however were surprised to hear that and thought that tying intel to artillery strikes was revolutionary. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

Your comments about uav's not being revolutionary is especially funny when you turn around and accuse people of being blindly technocratic.

 

And how they are funny? I had shown that those capabilities existed since Cold War and that nowadays we do not have much more capabilities than before. Israel was doing the same stuff in its wars that we are considering cutting edge in Ukraine today. Even then, you miss entirety of my point. In most militaries you are not going to find a lot of advanced drones. At most they are doing recconnance, but even then their role is superficial. Only within this decade more serious projects are going to be completed and with increasing military budget and popularity of drones, these things are becoming commonplace. This is why Rheinmetall only now are marketing new anti air solutions to be effective at taking down drones versus to how previously we used missiles 10 times more expensive than a target we are shooting down.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

The whole point of uav's for the most part right now is to do the things we used to do other ways better, faster, cheaper, with less manpower, much lower latency, much higher certainty, over much larger areas, and In a much more usable and effective way.

 

This statement is so generic that it is pointless. Whole military is moving towards greater capabilities and efficiency. My point was that drones are taking quite a niche role and so far they were superfluous to most militaries in a sense that they were an afterthought in military procurement and their capabilities were quite minor outside of few notable exceptions. Only now we are seeing greater procurement budgets and attention paid towards drones and within current decades we are going to see drones with far greater combat capacities than we had seen previously. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

In that respect, they have been wildly successful almost beyond expectations. Your inability to grock that everyone here is far more aware of their limitations and weak points is not winning you friends nor is it making you come off as anything like intelligent. On the plus side, it is slightly less cringe than your constant talk of being more informed than public officials tasked with decision making and guiding development decisions. You definitely aren't by the way, you need to understand that.

 

Again, a technocratic belief that public officials should not be accountable to public. I do not share that believe and consider that by obfuscating information they are hiding internal corruption, biases and incompetence. Furthermore, you had provided no concrete examples so far. I had said that drones excel in a small niche of aerial reconnaissance, you however disagreed with me. So I want concrete examples where they were all of that you claimed to be in other spheres too. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

A great example is your surprise and wonderment at drones being a great tool in the hybrid warfare toolbox. They're also great in COIN operations other than war and probably most importantly in the role of dealing with gathering ISR and a myriad of other missions involving hostile nations we don't want a shooting war with.

 

That was one niche at which I did not thought about hybrid war. However, that is quite a niche application and your given examples about intelligence gathering is also quite wrong. Drones are shot down from the skies quite easily and they are incapable of gathering intelligent data over adversary which can actually shot back at you. Hence latest downing of a drone in Iran. Aerial reconnaissance is a niche which I said they excel at, so far I do not see any major points to the contrary. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

And herein lies the issue people here have with you. You are falsely under the impression that you are far smarter and more knowledgeable than you actually are. You preach to people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know and chide them about their stances on things you're plainly far out of your depth on.

 

I can say the same with you. You constantly insult me, often without bothering to tell me why. Only now you are doing that. Furthermore, you do not know how intelligent I think, I'm. Furthermore, from this reply you make yourself look like everything you blame me to be. Seriously: "You preach to people who have forgotten more than you'll ever know and chide them about their stances on things you're plainly far out of your depth on." and you say that I think that I'm clever than anyone else then you say such things without ever backing anything up? All I hear is boasting from you at how high and mighty you all are, however when I see the most sophisticated threads on this forums, they are just plain ridiculous stuff like designing armored car under 20 tons with main battle tank cannon. Or putting second generation missiles on missile design, while vaguely explaining how you can make something better than designers at that time, or casually throwing 2000 hp engine in a design which supposed to feature low tech design.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

I'm by far one of the least intelligent and well read people here and yet my knowledge is still encyclopedic In comparison with your own. 

 

Again, you boast of how clever you are compared to me while accusing me doing the same thing.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

Your comments in this thread pretty plainly show that your own internal ideas of what uav's are supposed to be and do are very divergent from what they actually are. This should have given you pause and made you stop to consider whether you actually know what you think you do instead of triggering you to post wildly laughable admonishments and batshit insane proclamations.

 

However, military application confirms what I had said. The problem is that you get triggered without fully grasping what I had said.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 3:27 AM, roguetechie said:

You're either going to actually learn how to be a good poster here or you'll go back to whatever shithole forums you came from. 

 

The choice is yours.

 

I had chosen that already. And from how often I come here you can see that I will not be staying here. I can say a lot more in response, but if you want to get rid of me faster, then I would recommend just ignoring me. Otherwise it would be pretty cowardly of you to expect a free shot at me when you know I won't be able to defend myself. If however you would choose to ignore me, I will not have further reason reply and this will be my last reply to you. 

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Yeah, we get it, you want us to do all your work for you. 

 

But we're not going to.

 

Nice try on insisting we write up faq's and etc though.

 

And oh by the way, you finding the competition threads and managing to so badly mangle the intent just goes to show how monumentally fucking defective you are.

 

P.s. yes, I do know a metric fuck ton more than you... But that's just not hard or something to actually be proud of. Even diagonal sushi mightyzuk and lastdingo would be highly disappointed by you, and that truly says worse things about you than anything else I could add.

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On 9/14/2020 at 6:23 PM, roguetechie said:

Yeah, we get it, you want us to do all your work for you. 

 

But we're not going to.

 

Nice try on insisting we write up faq's and etc though.

 

And oh by the way, you finding the competition threads and managing to so badly mangle the intent just goes to show how monumentally fucking defective you are.

 

P.s. yes, I do know a metric fuck ton more than you... But that's just not hard or something to actually be proud of. Even diagonal sushi mightyzuk and lastdingo would be highly disappointed by you, and that truly says worse things about you than anything else I could add.

 

No, I want you to have self respect and self esteem not tied to acceptance of some extremely obscure, half dead forum, because it sounds really pathetic when a grown man aspires to one day become accepted into an anonymous online community. By becoming a writer, having your own blog and getting publishing deals with some newspapers you could develop as a person. It is not that hard, I just went and asked a person whom I know and he had agreed to publish me, his news site has connections with other news sites and thus I will have a very wide reach just at my first attempt. I had offered to do something as constructive for yourself, because with time, those blog posts and comments have very little staying power or worth in society as a whole. 

 

As for you lashing out at me so violently and without a solid cause. Well, usually people just project their own insecurities at me. A good example is how you went through threads to attack me and now suddenly it is my fault for merging your outbursts from both threads. I'm sorry for trying to help you. As you say, you know what you are doing and I assume those nicknames are your online friends. It is good that you have at least them.

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On 9/19/2020 at 10:11 AM, Must Be Spoon Fed said:

 

No, I want you to have self respect and self esteem not tied to acceptance of some extremely obscure, half dead forum, because it sounds really pathetic when a grown man aspires to one day become accepted into an anonymous online community. By becoming a writer, having your own blog and getting publishing deals with some newspapers you could develop as a person. It is not that hard, I just went and asked a person whom I know and he had agreed to publish me, his news site has connections with other news sites and thus I will have a very wide reach just at my first attempt. I had offered to do something as constructive for yourself, because with time, those blog posts and comments have very little staying power or worth in society as a whole. 

 

As for you lashing out at me so violently and without a solid cause. Well, usually people just project their own insecurities at me. A good example is how you went through threads to attack me and now suddenly it is my fault for merging your outbursts from both threads. I'm sorry for trying to help you. As you say, you know what you are doing and I assume those nicknames are your online friends. It is good that you have at least them.

 

Was all of this supposed to make me care that you think I'm a meanie head dumb dumb face?

 

P.s. any "news site" stupid enough to employ you as a writer is... I'd say only good as toilet paper but you're essentially just an "online defense commentator" which is right up there with terms like anal fissures for it's negative connotation to pretty much everyone whose not one of them.

 

Congrats on getting yourself into the exalted camp as such luminaries as Nicholas Drummond and blacktail defense I guess.

 

You know, if you just stopped being so exceedingly stupid this place could be a gold mine for you. But, you and I both know that will never happen.

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So I guess we know which is the best Flanker version now..?

"On Tuesday, September 22, in the Tver region (Russia), a Su-30 aircraft crashed during a scheduled training flight. According to reports on military forums, he was accidentally shot down by another aircraft during training sparring in air combat...

...According to a 
report on the Military Informant Telegram channel , on the Su-35S fighter, which was sparring with the crashed Su-30SM, the missiles were removed after combat duty, but the gun was not discharged due to an oversight. Instead of shooting, he unexpectedly fired a real volley."


https://apostrophe.ua/news/world/ex-ussr/2020-09-22/zabyili-razryadit-pushku-v-rossii-istrebitel-sluchayno-podbil-boevoy-samolet/209935

What's going on over in Russia at the moment? First we've got that BMP-2 plinking a friendly T90 with an ATGM and now this. Must make for some awkward debriefs. :P ;)

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2 hours ago, Boagrius said:

So I guess we know which is the best Flanker version now..?

"On Tuesday, September 22, in the Tver region (Russia), a Su-30 aircraft crashed during a scheduled training flight. According to reports on military forums, he was accidentally shot down by another aircraft during training sparring in air combat...

...According to a 
report on the Military Informant Telegram channel , on the Su-35S fighter, which was sparring with the crashed Su-30SM, the missiles were removed after combat duty, but the gun was not discharged due to an oversight. Instead of shooting, he unexpectedly fired a real volley."


https://apostrophe.ua/news/world/ex-ussr/2020-09-22/zabyili-razryadit-pushku-v-rossii-istrebitel-sluchayno-podbil-boevoy-samolet/209935

What's going on over in Russia at the moment? First we've got that BMP-2 plinking a friendly T90 with an ATGM and now this. Must make for some awkward debriefs. :P ;)

This thread is for aa systems and that event already got posted in this subforum.

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