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Walter_Sobchak

North Korea, you so crazy!

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38 minutes ago, Donward said:

Stop being daft. It's embarrassing watching the American Left openly root for World War III and a failure of the Singapore Peace Summit because they are still frosty that they nominated the worst human being in recent American history to steal the Democratic nomination.  Or perhaps it has something to do with the fact that many of us have serious doubts as to the deal-making ability of a six time bankrupt "businessman" and reality TV star who thinks diplomacy is insulting Canada.

 

Nothing like yesterday's events have EVER happened in American or Korean history with a face-to-face between and American President and the leader of North Korea. No, because previous presidents of both parties considered it a bad idea and insisted on multilateral talks.

 

There has been nothing like the four written agreements listed above - and one verbal promise to begin disassembling the Nork's missile testing facility - because there has never been a direct face-to-face between the leaders of the two countries. It's the Chief Executive of the US directly negotiating with the Chairman of the Democratic  People's Republic of Korea. If you understand Asian culture, that is significant.  I read them, they were all very vague and general and not binding in anyway.  Also, what is the value of a verbal promise?  I wouldn't accept a verbal promise when selling a ten year old car, let alone conducting international diplomacy.

 

And it was repeated like a dozen times that this was just the first step of many in this process. If it eventually leads to peace, then good for Trump.  Until then, I reserve the right to be very skeptical.

 

Honestly, if all we get is the repatriation of the remains of American soldiers from the Korean War (something like 6,000-8,000 bodies) that alone is a significant milestone in the peace process. And all it cost was a sit down lunch of braised beef, avocado salad, sweet and sour pork, and ice cream... that the Singapore government paid for in part.  was throwing our South Korean ally under the bus with an unexpected promise to cancel joint military exercise designed to, you know, help defend South Korea.

 

Oh, and the temporary halting of war games with South Korea. - Which Trump called "provocative", essentially agreeing with North Korean propaganda on the matter.

 

The antics of the American Left leading up to this summit, during, and now afterwards is downright childish and I don't know you guys are going to climb out of the political hole your party is digging right now.  Yes, people critical of Trump are "childish", while Trump is the epitome of a well adjusted and mature adult.

 

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5 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

gp

If Trump came home from the Summit with all 15 of the North Korean nukes stashed in the belly of Air Force One, the American Left would still find a way to bitch and moan. Because there is nothing that Trump can do to be legitimate in your eyes.

 

At a certain point, when you complain about EVERYTHING, you no longer are a voice to listen to. 

 

And meanwhile the Japanese and South Korean leadership are hailing this deal for what it is, an important first step.

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1 minute ago, Donward said:

If Trump came home from the Summit with all 15 of the North Korean nukes stashed in the belly of Air Force One, the American Left would still find a way to bitch and moan. Because there is nothing that Trump can do to be legitimate in your eyes.

 

At a certain point, when you complain about EVERYTHING, you no longer are a voice to listen to. 

 

And meanwhile the Japanese and South Korean leadership are hailing this deal for what it is, an important first step.

 

And when you try to justify everything, the same rules apply.

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Also, I am not rooting for World War III, as Don would imply.  I am deeply skeptical of this process based on the historical record of North Korea's past negotiating tactics as well as what I see as POTUS complete lack of understanding of how international diplomacy works and is supposed to be conducted.  Honestly, I not sure he even cares about peace in Korea, he is looking for a PR opportunity.  If it doesn't work, he will move on to the next thing and, "find some kind of an excuse."

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Per the South Korea news

 

Moon says Singapore summit 'lays groundwork for world peace

 

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/06/356_250574.html

 

South Korean President Moon Jae-in on Tuesday expressed his gratitude to U.S. President Donald Trump, saying his meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has paved the way for world peace.

"President Moon said President Trump has achieved a great success in the North Korea-U.S. summit, laying the foundation for peace not only on the Korean Peninsula but in the entire world," Moon's presidential office Cheong Wa Dae said of a telephone conversation between the two leaders.

The call was made hours after the U.S. leader held a historic summit with Kim in Singapore, agreeing to provide security guarantees for the communist North while the North Korean leader reaffirmed his commitment to "complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."

 

(Reaction of the South Korean public)

 

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2018/06/103_250548.html

 

South Koreans of different age groups expressed mixed feelings about the prospect of peace on the Korean peninsula following the summit between the United States and North Korea.
Many said they welcomed the U.S. and North Korea moving to narrow their differences, but remained cautious and skeptical. 

"I feel safer amid the recent progress towards peace with North Korea," said a man, 21, who just started his military service this year and was out on vacation, at Seoul Station. 
"Less provocations by North Korea will mean less emergency situations and drills for soldiers like me."
Young jobseekers, however, said their hard-pressed situations made it hard to be optimistic about the summit.
"Honestly, I am more concerned about my situation of finding a job than what's happening with the North," said Kim Hee-min, 24.

 

The Korean Herald

 

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180612000772

 

20180612001174_0.jpg

 

 

 

 

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US to suspend military exercises with South Korea, Trump says

 

Both the South Korean government and US forces in the region appear to have been taken by surprise by Trump’s declared suspension of joint military exercises.

US forces in Korea said they had not received updated guidance on military exercises. “In coordination with our ROK [Republic of Korea] partners, we will continue with our current military posture until we receive updated guidance,” a spokesperson told Reuters.

 

The South Korean presidency issued a statement saying: “At this moment, the meaning and intention of President Trump’s remarks requires more clear understanding.”


The South Korean military appeared similarly taken aback. NBC News quoted a statement as saying: “Regarding President Trump’s comment regarding ending of the combined military drills … we need to find out the exact meaning or intention behind his comments at this point.”

 

Military officials from both countries, including the US defence secretary, James Mattis, had vigorously opposed curtailing joint military exercises, on the grounds that doing so would undermine the alliance and its deterrent against North Korea.

 

Kelly Magsamen, a senior Pentagon official dealing with Asian and Pacific security in the Obama administration, said the surprise suspension of military exercises and their disparagement as expensive and provocative “continues Trump’s disturbing pattern of undermining our democratic alliances while praising our adversaries”.

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2 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

 

Kelly Magsamen, a senior Pentagon official dealing with Asian and Pacific security in the Obama administration, said the surprise suspension of military exercises and their disparagement as expensive and provocative “continues Trump’s disturbing pattern of undermining our democratic alliances while praising our adversaries”.

Anonymous sources and Obama Administration lick-spittles are opposed to the deal.

 

News at 11

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53 minutes ago, Donward said:

 

 

Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), among the most hawkish senators, told "CBS This Morning" that he did not mind halting military exercises but that "the one thing I would object to violently is withdrawing our forces from South Korea. China is trying to play president Trump through North Korea. ..If we withdraw our forces and that's part of the deal, I can't support the deal. That will lead to more conflict not less."

 

(Yeah, no one asked you, Lindsay Graham)

 

 

Don, I will agree with you that Lindsay Graham is terrible.  He is far too hawkish for my tastes.  One of the few silver linings I see in the Trump administration is that he seems to be willing to ignore the most hawkish members of the Republican establishment.  But then, he also hired John Bolton (king of the Neo-con hawks) and seems to alternate wildly from being all milk and honey (Kim is someone we can trust) to outright scary (Fire and Fury!).  It's this lack of consistency and discipline that leaves me very worried about the Trump administration foreign policy.  

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During the luncheon (I believe) of the Singapore Peace Summit, this video was played for Chairman Kim and the North Korea delegation on a cassette iPad. 

 

 

Again, contrary to the preliminary news reports, showing how savvy and well-prepared the Americans were going into these negotiations. And it shows that someone probably has a pretty good psychological feel for the North Korean leader. Kim is a big movie buff.  It's a simple four minute video (pretty well put together) but it is enough to give FACE to your opposite in the negotiations while sacrificing nothing of tangible importance.

 

According to Trump during the media presser after the summit, this video played a significant role in the negotiations.

 

Edit: Seriously. Look at the images they chose to represent the "carrot".

 

Electricity, medicine, infrastructure, robots... theme parks and basketball. Breaking away from the past.

 

This is a VERY telling video, in terms of Chairman Kim's psychological makeup.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Ulric said:

 

Two scoops?

Sadly, that was one of the questions the media did NOT dredge up during the presser, whether Trump was given more ice cream than Kim. Surprised it wasn't, in retrospect.

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Honest question here.  Let's say Kim is totally on board with getting rid of his nukes.  Considering the huge investment that NK has made in developing and building these weapons, would his own generals actually let him do it or would he fall victim to a coup?   How secure is his hold on power?

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7 hours ago, Donward said:

If Trump came home from the Summit with all 15 of the North Korean nukes stashed in the belly of Air Force One, the American Left would still find a way to bitch and moan. Because there is nothing that Trump can do to be legitimate in your eyes.

 

Even Counterpunch agrees on this one:  https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/12/the-democrats-out-right-the-right-on-north-korean-summit/

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4 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

Oddly enough, I almost posted a counterpunch article earlier today, although a different one.  https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/12/they-threw-russia-out-on-trumps-understanding-of-recent-history/

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1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Honest question here.  Let's say Kim is totally on board with getting rid of his nukes.  Considering the huge investment that NK has made in developing and building these weapons, would his own generals actually let him do it or would he fall victim to a coup?   How secure is his hold on power?

Meh, the last guy that pissed him off got fed to some dogs. (Or was it torn apart by AA guns? I forget.)

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3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Good article, I'm glad that you linked it.....And not me!  ;)

 

I've been reading CounterPunch for years.  Although, I kinda lost interest a bit after Alexander Cockburn died, he was always the most entertaining writer, if not always correct.  Back when i was more politically active in leftist circles, I met a few of the writers.  Honestly, most of them tend to be blowhards when you meet them in person.  It's the total opposite in my current tank hobby.  Most of the authors on tanks and military history I have had the chance to talk to are very nice. 

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It hasn't even been 36 hours since the most important diplomatic summit since the Fall of the Berlin Wall wrapped up, and the entire media is pretending like nothing happened. So I guess that answers the question about how the results of this summit were going to be spun by the Trump haters.

 

Although it is hilarious watching the political party which has been opposed to conducting war games for decades, now all of a sudden caring about them.

 

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Since there is a considerable amount of (expected) progress, I will gladly assist you: 

 

Quote

everyone in the US State Department associated with our Korean policy needs to be drug out into the streets and publicly flogged.

 

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33 minutes ago, Toxn said:

 

Cognitive dissonance of Trump critics. The successful summit was a huge ‘win’ for him domestically, and that’s bad when you hate him so much that you hoped someone would fuck things up (something I actually heard someone say).

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On 6/13/2018 at 6:15 PM, Donward said:

Secretary of State Pompeo: Denuclearization of Korean Peninsula by 2020

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44471419

 

So there's our timeline.

 

Does it matter what Pompeo says?  If it's not in the document, I don't put much faith in it.  Perhaps the followup sessions will produce more details.

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