Tanks guns and ammunition.

[Bronezhilet]

The reason all those graphs level out at around 1.5 at 3000 m/s is because 3000 m/s is the hydrodynamic limit for wolfram vs steel. Above the hydrodynamic limit the P/L is simply "sqrt(penetrator density/target density)", which for wolfram vs steel is ~1.5.

[FORMATOSE]

On 18/04/2017 at 11:58 AM, Militarysta said:

And next puzzle:

 

"New Nexter 125mm munition APFSDS":

 

Claimed to have up to 600mm RHA (lol, yeh, sure...)

 

And "old" Pakistani POF 125mm APFSDS:

 

Looks quite simmilar - is't it?

POF round gave 460mm RAH at 0. so in 60. it will have slighty more then 520-530mm RHA

 

Different powder and penetrator technology, improved performances compared to the previous Giat Industries 125G1 APFSDS-T.

[Militarysta]

22 hours ago, Sovngard said:

 

Different powder and penetrator technology, improved performances compared to the previous Giat Industries 125G1 APFSDS-T.

 

Well in theory it is possible but with composite sabot:

 

(second row)

 

If this frencht round have sucht sabot?

[FORMATOSE]

On 23/04/2017 at 8:42 PM, Militarysta said:

Well in theory it is possible but with composite sabot:

 

If this frencht round have sucht sabot?

 

“ High quality powder which is extremely stable even in India’s capricious climate and penetrating power of up to 600mm. ” ABG told us.

 

I do not see why ABG would lie about the penetrating power, the Ammunition Business Group (ABG) includes Nexter Munitions, MECAR and SIMMEL companies.

 

This is just an exposure model, nothing more, I am not even sure that this life-size mock-up was produced by Nexter. This does not necessarily represent the finished product.

[Ramlaen]

http://www.janes.com/article/69809/russia-working-on-new-medium-calibre-ammo

Russia has confirmed that it is working on what it calls "special shrapnel" ammunition for use by 30 mm and 57 mm cannons, with the latter likely developed with a view to engaging unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The work is being carried out by Russia's NPO Pribor research and industrial association, which is affiliated with Rostec subsidiary TechMash (Russia's largest ammunition manufacturer), and is still in its early stages, with no projected initial operational capability (IOC) as yet.

The new Russian 57 mm ammunition will probably be along similar lines to the Rheinmetall Air Defence Oerlikon AHEAD (Advanced Hit Efficiency and Destruction) 35 mm ammunition, which is used by a number of air defence weapons. AHEAD 35 mm is programmed as it leaves the weapon and contains a number of small submunitions that are ejected at the correct time of flight in front of the target.

The Russian 57 mm round would be for a new mobile air defence weapon that is currently being developed as the Derivatsiya - PVO anti-aircraft artillery system, or ZAK-57. This is based on a modified BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle fitted with a brand new turret.

The Derivatsiya's 57 mm cannon is probably the same as that installed in the ASU-220M Baikal remote-controlled turret (RCT), which has been developed by the Burevestnik Central Research Institute, part of the UralVagonZavod group. The ASU-220M RCT is also armed with a 7.62 mm PKTM co-axial machine gun (MG) and the weapons are coupled to a computerised fire control system (FCS), with both crew members provided with stabilised day/night sights incorporating a laser rangefinder.

The AU-220M turret has already been shown installed on a modified BMP-3 IFV hull and has been marketed to a number of countries overseas, especially in the Middle East.

Russian sources have confirmed that in addition to firing conventional natures of 57 mm ammunition it was also fire a guided 57 mm round to enable targets to be engaged at ranges beyond the 57 mm weapon's direct-fire range, which is quoted as 12 km when fired horizontally and up to 8 km when fired vertically.

[LoooSeR]

2 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

http://www.janes.com/article/69809/russia-working-on-new-medium-calibre-ammo

 

 

Logical step after 30 mm programmable HE-frag shells were tested on Pantsir. Posted video a while ago 

[FORMATOSE]

Does a 57 mm APDs or APFSDS exist ?

[Ramlaen]

25mm M919?

 

[Collimatrix]

On 4/28/2017 at 8:59 PM, Ramlaen said:

25mm M919?

 

 

Sure looks like it.

 

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m919.htm

[FORMATOSE]

The Bundesheer uses unconventional sabot training rounds which omit the classical saddle/spool-type sabots design (2017 Strong Europe Tank Challenge).

 

[SH_MM]

It's the Rheinmetall DM78 training round also used in Germany. It's relatively new.

 

 

____

 

"When you are too lazy to google for photos of the T-80U"

[Akula_941]

weird russian APFSDS

could be just a training rounds but no detail yet

[Ramlaen]

120mm Penetration-Cum Blast

 

[Khand-e]

4 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

120mm Penetration-Cum Blast

 

 

I still can't believe it's named "Cum Blast".

[Ramlaen]

This months issue of DTR has an article about BAE's choice to offer a 35mm gun in Australia's LAND 400 competition.

 

-4km effective max range vs 3km with a 30mm

-the APFSDS-T has 135mm RHA penetration at 1km

-Rheinmetall's 35mm KETF round (Kinetic Energy Timed Fuze) has 407 tungsten sub-projectiles, the 30mm version has 152

-Danish(?) CV9035 crews in Afghanistan apparently have come to prefer 100% KETF loadouts

 

There is also some debate over range vs armor for survivability and 35mm vs 30mm stored kills.

[SH_MM]

The 35 mm KETF is a very odd round developed for the Royal Netherlands Army. The decision to develop a round with more payload (of smaller tungsten pellets) compared to the already existing 35 mm AHEAD round was the Dutch requirement to have a high probability of knocking out every optic of a T-80U MBT with a single salvo. However in Swiss testing, two 35 mm AHEAD rounds (each with 152 pellets) already were capable of knocking out all relevant optics of a Pz-68 (upgrade prototype), including the gunner's sight, the two openings of the optical rangefinder, the laser rangefinder, aswell as vision blocks of the commander's cupola and the driver. So one has to wonder, if there really is an advantage over the 30 mm KETF round in this regard...

But the one thing that I think is odd in the DTR magazine's article is that they ignore that the Boxer CRV is offered with both options; they speak about possible protection gained by the greater standoff capbility of the 35 mm gun of the Patria AMV, which could equalize the lower armor protection (level 4 vs level 6), but completely forget that one of the two Boxer CRV prototypes has a 35 mm gun, while the other also has Spike-LR launchers...

 

Btw. unprogrammed the 35 mm KETF and AHEAD can penetrate a 55 mm steel plate.

[Ramlaen]

I thought KETF was the round and AHEAD was the airburst fuze system?

 

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004/guns/wed/buckley.ppt

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a393758.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009/gunmissile/7923paulissen.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012/armaments/Thursday13673Voorde.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2014/armaments/Wed16503Kerk.pdf

 

[SH_MM]

Rheinmetall calls the ammunition for the air-defence gun "Ahead munition" in several occasions, e.g. in most of their press releases and some presentations:

 

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/publicrelations/pressemitteilungen/2016/mspo/05_2016-09-06_Rheinmetall_MSPO_Medium_Calibre.pdf

 

The term KETF is pretty much only used in case of ground vehicle ammunition.

[Ramlaen]

On 6/4/2017 at 8:46 AM, SH_MM said:

Rheinmetall calls the ammunition for the air-defence gun "Ahead munition" in several occasions, e.g. in most of their press releases and some presentations:

 

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/publicrelations/pressemitteilungen/2016/mspo/05_2016-09-06_Rheinmetall_MSPO_Medium_Calibre.pdf

 

The term KETF is pretty much only used in case of ground vehicle ammunition.

 

Okay I understand the difference now.

 

-35mm AHEAD has 152 3.3g sub-projectiles

-35mm KETF has 407 1.24g sub-projectiles

-30mm KETF has 152 1.24g sub-projectiles

 

[Ramlaen]

 

[Militarysta]

Another WITU pdf (whit mistaken rod image)

witu.mil.pl/www/biuletyn/ptu_2017/141/87.pdf

 

ANALYSIS OF ENERGETIC PARAMETERS FOR ANTITANK KINETIC

AMMUNITION OF CONTEMPORARY BATTLEFIELD
Mariusz MAGIER
Wojskowy Instytut Techniczny Uzbrojenia
Military Institute of Armament Technology

 

 

 

[SH_MM]

 

 

And medium calibre stuff:

 

[Bronezhilet]

I saw that Rheinmetall is looking for tank ammunition researchers/developers. Sounds exactly like a job I want, but I'm not too keen on moving to Germany. 

[Ramlaen]

A page from a 2009 .pdf about USMC M1A1's that mentions testing of DM11.

 

[SH_MM]