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EnsignExpendable

StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)

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On 28.11.2017 at 9:02 AM, EnsignExpendable said:

The Panther's invulnerable Kruppstahl was too strong for any Allied gun, so they had to attack the ground around it until the Panther was stuck on a slight elevation and could not move in any direction without breaking its final drives.

I think this Panther-bashing is going too far.  

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On 27.11.2017 at 10:22 AM, LoooSeR said:

4935114_original.jpg

 

Made by Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles Gmbh, on chassis of commercial/civilian vehicle/parts, 16 tons, 340 hp engine and protection is STANAG 3.

 

The Survivor R is actually based on a Rheinmetall MAN truck, but was developed by the Austrian company Achtleitner Fahrzeugbau. Achtleitner asked Rheinmetall to provide a base for the Survivor, Rheinmetall then decided to join into the project, creating its own variant of the Survivor.

 

SurvivorI_Brandenburg_02_IMG_7645.jpg

 

The Survivor (no "R") from Achtleitner has been adopted by some German police (SWAT-type) teams, others have chosen the Survivor R. The Survivor seems to have thinner armor, gun ports in the windows and wire mesh covering all glass surfaces. Both companies are competing on the German market with essentially the same vehicle in slightly different versions.

 

SurvivorI_Brandenburg_01_IMG_7644.jpg

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The Förderkreis Heer, an association focused on the German military that includes members of politics, members of the military and key members of the industry (hence some call it a lobby), has published its latest newsletter. This document includes an article written by the Mathias Kraus, the head of sales of PSM, regarding the Czech IFV program, in which PSM's Puma and Rheinmetall's Lynx were involved. The most important aspects are:

  • The Puma was the only vehicle that participated in the trials in a full series configuration, including radios, battlefield mangement systems, crew equipment and tools. All other vehicles lacked some of the normal equipment.
  • During the firing tests (done at the ranges 1,200 and 1,800 metres), the Puma was the only vehicle to hit all targets. The Czech requirements saw each vehicle firing a five round burst, but it was really windy.
  • The Puma hit 37 out of 40 rounds, the second best vehicle supposedly managed to hit about half as many targets only.
  • Reliability was an issue for all vehicles except the Puma; it was the only vehicle which didn't have to repeat a test because some relevant component failed. However it is not mentioned wether non-relevant components failed on the Puma.
  • Already before the trials, Germany and the Czech Republic decided to deepen relations. On the 15th of February 2017 the ministers of defence of both states signed a memorandum of understanding regarding this topic, which also includes the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade being subordinated to the German 10th Tank Division.
  • Other Eastern-European countries are looking for a new IFV, selling the Puma to the Czech Republic might persuade them to follow.
  •  

That said: as PSM is selling the Puma, one has to be critical of their claims.

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Wasn't the panther supposed to have significant labor-saving shortcuts in the design?  To the point where some sources claim it actually required fewer man-hours to make than a Pz IV?

 

I wonder if those shortcuts ended up making it more wasteful to manufacture somehow.

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6 hours ago, Xlucine said:

 

Panzer 4 best german tank ever!

 

StuG IIIIV : the best tank that was not a tank

 

5 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

Wasn't the panther supposed to have significant labor-saving shortcuts in the design?  To the point where some sources claim it actually required fewer man-hours to make than a Pz IV?

 

I wonder if those shortcuts ended up making it more wasteful to manufacture somehow.

 

The Panther had money-saving shortcuts in the accounting :P I've never seen a claim that it took fewer hours to make, just that it cost less.

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Jordan is getting a second batch of 25 Marders according to Jane's Defence Weekly:
 

Quote

Jordan to get more Marder IFVs

Jeremy Binnie - Jane's Defence Weekly
13 December 2017

The Jordanian Armed Forces (JAF) will receive a further 25 Marder 1A3 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs), Rheinmetall announced on 13 December.

It said the German government awarded it a EUR17 million (USD20 million) contract in October to upgrade 25 surplus Bundeswehr vehicles and that deliveries would begin in the first quarter of 2018. It said the IFVs would be “fully modernised” and painted in desert camouflage. The package also includes training, ammunition, spares, tools, documentation, and support.

Rheinmetall said 25 Marders were delivered to the JAF in 2016/2017.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at ihs.com/contact

 

Regarding last deal - https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.de/2016/12/marders-to-jordan.html

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The first Spike-LR tests with the Puma were a failure, which kind of reminds me of the very first Spike-LR tests (also failed). The missile is operational with the army since 2012 in small numbers.

 

According to the article on the German Army website (from which Mr. Turnbull copied the photos), four Spike-LR missiles were fired at targets about 4 kilometres away. The first missile (fired in the SACLOS mode, i.e. "fire and steer" as called by Rafael) had a malfunction and didn't properly react to the commands of the gunner. It is not reported wether it hit the target, but it flew too low (so that it wasn't captured by the measuring devices and high-speed cameras) despite the gunner trying to make it fly higher.

Second missile, also fired in SACLOS mode hit the target.

 

Third missile (fired in the "fire and forget" mode) had issues during flight, the video in the monitor was wobbling (might in theory also be a problem with the launcher). It is not reported wether it hit the target or not, just like what happened with the fourth missile. If the fourth missile had no issues, this still would only be a 50% success rate... not good. But it is part of a testing and qualification program, so the issues are meant to be mended before the launcher is adopted on the series vehicles.

 

PS:


Also the Raketenjagdpanzer video from 1969:

 

 

 

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It seems like the Puma needs some Upgrades to be ready for VJTF in 2023. Following a report from Reuters the Bundeswehr expects that it will cost 500 million € to get 40 Pumas VJTF ready and supplied.
While the more mainstream nt-v newssite talks simply about 500kk €for upgrading 40 Vehicles, hartpunkt.de goes a bit deeper and explains that 1/3 of the sum consists of logistic costs for the mission, 1/3 for the development of new equipment especially an up to date digital radio system which enables the Puma to exchange sufficent data with other vehicles, drones, up to two dozent infantrymen and probably aircrafts to perform on the modern networked battlefield. The last third is then for the actual updates. While this sound stupididly expensive for 40 vehicles it includes the R&D costs so the ugrade of the remaining 300 Vehicles should (hopefully :blink:) be significant cheaper.

The story in german:
http://augengeradeaus.net/2018/01/neues-vom-puma-millionen-nachruestung-fuer-die-vjtf/
https://www.hartpunkt.de/modernisierung-von-40-pumas-kostet-500-mio-eur/

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Jägerlein said:

It seems like the Puma needs some Upgrades to be ready for VJTF in 2023. Following a report from Reuters the Bundeswehr expects that it will cost 500 million € to get 40 Pumas VJTF ready and supplied.
While the more mainstream nt-v newssite talks simply about 500kk €for upgrading 40 Vehicles, hartpunkt.de goes a bit deeper and explains that 1/3 of the sum consists of logistic costs for the mission, 1/3 for the development of new equipment especially an up to date digital radio system which enables the Puma to exchange sufficent data with other vehicles, drones, up to two dozent infantrymen and probably aircrafts to perform on the modern networked battlefield. The last third is then for the actual updates. While this sound stupididly expensive for 40 vehicles it includes the R&D costs so the ugrade of the remaining 300 Vehicles should (hopefully :blink:) be significant cheaper.

The story in german:
http://augengeradeaus.net/2018/01/neues-vom-puma-millionen-nachruestung-fuer-die-vjtf/
https://www.hartpunkt.de/modernisierung-von-40-pumas-kostet-500-mio-eur/

 

 

And what is VJTF, if I may ask?

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18 hours ago, Jägerlein said:

It seems like the Puma needs some Upgrades to be ready for VJTF in 2023. Following a report from Reuters the Bundeswehr expects that it will cost 500 million € to get 40 Pumas VJTF ready and supplied.
While the more mainstream nt-v newssite talks simply about 500kk €for upgrading 40 Vehicles, hartpunkt.de goes a bit deeper and explains that 1/3 of the sum consists of logistic costs for the mission, 1/3 for the development of new equipment especially an up to date digital radio system which enables the Puma to exchange sufficent data with other vehicles, drones, up to two dozent infantrymen and probably aircrafts to perform on the modern networked battlefield. The last third is then for the actual updates. While this sound stupididly expensive for 40 vehicles it includes the R&D costs so the ugrade of the remaining 300 Vehicles should (hopefully :blink:) be significant cheaper.

The story in german:
http://augengeradeaus.net/2018/01/neues-vom-puma-millionen-nachruestung-fuer-die-vjtf/
https://www.hartpunkt.de/modernisierung-von-40-pumas-kostet-500-mio-eur/

 

 

I really want to know how they got to 500 Million.
Is it money that still needs to be spend?
Or is it just all the upgrades and logistics (7,62mm coax, MELLS, IDZ ES, SVFua, TSWA, spares, ammo, training till 2023 etc) summed up?
Or some sort of in between?
Because alot of the upgrades are already ordered. So the 500 million wouldnt be only spend on 40 Pumas but on most ot all the Pumas.

https://www.rheinmetall.com/de/rheinmetall_ag/press/news/latest_news/index_12160.php

https://www.pressebox.de/pressemitteilung/rheinmetall-ag/Rheinmetall-Auftrag-im-MELLS-Programm-im-Wert-von-35-Mio-Euro/boxid/272865

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/de/news-und-presse/pressebereich/pressemitteilungen-detailseiten/taktische-kommunikation-mit-svfua-rohde-schwarz-stattet-bundeswehr-mit-modernen-softwarebasierten-funksystemen-aus-pressemitteilungen-detailseite_229356-452548.html

260 mio + 35 mio + 80,9 mio=375,9 mio

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