StuG III Thread (and also other German vehicles I guess)

[EnsignExpendable]

Buff JT plz

 

[Donward]

Buff JT plz

 

 

I'm pretty sure Alex C owns a 128mm German Jagdtiger Machine gun and will do a field strip for TFB two weeks from now.

[SuperComrade]

A gun is a machine, so machine gun

Don't see the problem at all

[Collimatrix]

12.8cm machine gun fire is extremely effective at suppression, due to the large caliber of the bullet.

[Donward]

If I was being fired at by a 128mm machine gun, I'd be damned suppressed and maybe oppressed and repressed as well.

[ZloyKrolik]

If I was being fired at by a 128mm machine gun, I'd be damned suppressed and maybe oppressed and repressed as well.

Depressed?

[Tied]

stressed

[SuperComrade]

Has anyone heard of this diesel-engined King Tiger, or did Gaijin pull it out of their asses?

http://warthunder.com/en/devblog/current/875

[Bronezhilet]

Afaik there were some tests with diesel King Tigers, but I have to re-check my books to be sure.

 

I'll be right back.

[Bronezhilet]

Crude translation/summary:

A new 16-cylinder 48L engine was fitted to a Tiger 2, but only after a complete redesign of the engine bay, significant changes to the hull and the track adjustment mechanism. The engine made 1500 horsepower at 2500 rpm.

 

Yes the engine existed. No, it made waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy more power than Gajin's version.

[SuperComrade]

So, technically yes, but the way it is going to be implemented ingame, they pulled out of their asses

[Bronezhilet]

So, technically yes, but the way it is going to be implemented ingame, they pulled out of their asses

Yah. I don't know the actual dimensions, but seeing how it looks they had to widen part of the hull and/or raise the engine deck. Gajin was just lazy and changed a few numbers around to give it these stats.

 

Curiously though, I haven't seen info on whether the gearbox and steering mechanism were changed. For some reason I dont think those parts can cope with a 100% increase in power. Although I don't know what the torque of the engine was.

[EnsignExpendable]

Is that the one that the French tested but never got more than 1000 HP out of?

[SuperComrade]

The Saurer engine planned for the AMX 50s?

[Bronezhilet]

Is that the one that the French tested but never got more than 1000 HP out of?

I don't think so, this was tested by zhe Germans. Want more photos?

[Tied]

Please dont say "zhe Germans" on purpose to be cute. It gives me a fucking hemorrhoid

[EnsignExpendable]

I don't think so, this was tested by zhe Germans. Want more photos?

 

The answer to that question is always yes.

[Collimatrix]

Is that the one that the French tested but never got more than 1000 HP out of?

 

No, the French were using direct-injected versions of the HL petrol engines.  Basically uprated versions of the engines that the big cats actually had.  Service life must have been miserable.  I think the engine Bronezhilet dug up is one of the experimental diesels that was mentioned in the Heydekampf debrief.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Its not this one?

 

[Bronezhilet]

Please dont say "zhe Germans" on purpose to be cute. It gives me a fucking hemorrhoid

Awww, I assume I can't say Ruskis either?

 

 

Its not this one?

 

No, although it's the same type of engine. The Germans made at least two variants of the same engine. One with 3 liter cylinders and one with (apparently) 2.25 L cylinders. To double check you'll have to wait 8 hours till I get home. Or check "Panzer VI Tiger und seine Abarten" yourself.

[Walter_Sobchak]

Awww, I assume I can't say Ruskis either?

 

 

No, although it's the same type of engine. The Germans made at least two variants of the same engine. One with 3 liter cylinders and one with (apparently) 2.25 L cylinders. To double check you'll have to wait 8 hours till I get home. Or check "Panzer VI Tiger und seine Abarten" yourself.

In college the best I could manage in German class was a C+, so "Panzer VI Tiger und seine Abarten" probably won't do me much good.

[Bronezhilet]

Thankfully there's a translation named "Panzer VI Tiger and its variants".

[Walter_Sobchak]

Thankfully there's a translation named "Panzer VI Tiger and its variants".

So let me get this straight.  Gaijin has a new tiger with a "Simmering-Graz-Pauker Sla.16 diesel engine" generating 750 HP.  Someone asks if this engine was real.  I posted information on exactly that engine.  It's the same engine that is mentioned in the Heydekampf document (although they say 800 HP).  

 

 

 

There is no mention of anything remotely close to a 1500 HP engine in this report.  There is no mention of a 1500 HP engine in the Jentz King Tiger books.  According to what I can tell using google translate, Spielberger says:

 

"One of these engines Advance was built chassis in nibelung factory in a tiger G to give a completely new designed engine compartment revealed. It had to be made significant changes to the tub and on the chain adjustment. In the course of the performance increase of this engine, the use of 3 I-cylinder unit has been attempted (Porsche type 213). In 48 L total displacement was expected an output of 1500 hp at 2500 rev / min. The Simmering-Graz-Pauker SG, designation was 212."

 

Frankly, I think this is bull.  I do not believe that by increasing the engine displacement by 24% (2240 cu in to 2929 cu in) they are going to magically gain a 100% increase in power output.   

[Bronezhilet]

Here's the German full book, I'll try to translate the interesting bits when I get home, which should be in about 30-ish minutes.

[Bronezhilet]

No, the French were using direct-injected versions of the HL petrol engines.  Basically uprated versions of the engines that the big cats actually had.  Service life must have been miserable.  I think the engine Bronezhilet dug up is one of the experimental diesels that was mentioned in the Heydekampf debrief.

Yep, according to Spielberger they used the HL 295 (which was a further development of the HL 234 engine), with 1000 HP at 2800 rpm (page 181 in Panzer VI Tiger und seine Abarten).

 

 

Its not this one?

 

As I suspected, according to Spielberger these specs are for the variant with 2.3 L cylinders. The cylinders were "Typ 192" for Porsche engine "203". The bore is 135 mm and the stroke is 160 mm. Which coincides with the picture you posted. Spielberger does not list a maximum rpm nor HP. The table showing these stats is on page 181 in the link I posted:

"On the 2.3 liter unit (Porschetyp 192) a 16-cylinder X-engine was developed with two turbochargers provided by BBC-Mannheim. The combustion system was a precombustion chamber type from Simmering-Graz-Pauker AG.

[...](some technical German here which will take me ages to translate, so I won't unless you really want me to[...]

The engine has an empty weight of 2000 kilograms, the outside diameters are 1680 by 2500 by 1150 mm."

 

"A one-cylinder unit of this engine completed a 100 hour test on a test bench in Vienna and it made 47 HP at 2100 rpm."

If you use simple math, it gives you 752 horsepower for a 16-cylinder engine with the Porschetyp 192 unit. The book does not state whether the one-cylinder unit was supercharged during the test. The complete engine was.

 

"On 5 januari 1945 Hitler was given a report by Oberst Holzhäuer on the status of development of the 16-cylinder aircooled diesel engine by Porsche-Simmering. Hitler again emphasised on the importance of this project. He expected to be kept up-to-date with the test results on the prototype engines and prototype vehicles."

 

"One of these engines was mounted in a Tiger II by Nibelungenwerk, which resulted in a completely redesigned engine bay. There had to be made significant changes to the hull and to the track tensioning system. As part of the performance improvement of this engine the 3 L cylinder units (Porsche-typ 213) were used. With a total displacement of 48 L, 1500 HP at 2500 rpm was expected. Simmering-Graz-Pauker AG designated this engine as the Type Sla 16. The Porsche designation was 212."

 

The by MAN developed engine type "V 6 11.5/16" supercharged 12-cylinder two stroke V-engine had to be ready for installation by 1941. However, this 400 HP engine was not ready in 1943 and subsequently was dropped due to its limited horsepower.

 

"An aircooled 12- or 16-cylinder diesel engine made in collaboration with Argus with 800 horsepower did not evolve beyond the project stage. This too needed fundamental changes to the tank hull."

 

 

 

So Spielberger does not note the expected power of the supercharged 2.3 L cylinder powered X-engine, but he does state the power of a single 2.3 L cylinder. He does not state that this unit was supercharged. He does note the estimated power of a supercharged 3 L cylinder powered X-engine. So if the cylinder displacement changes from 2.3 L to 3 L and you add a supercharger, it might be possible to reach 1500 HP. However I am not a car/engine junkie so I have no idea how realistic it is. Gajin probably took the 47 HP value for the non-supercharged single cylinder unit and multiplied it with 16 and slapped it on the "Sla 16" engine. Spielberger does not state the name of the 37 L X-engine.

 

Basically:

37 L X-engine: No name (see 2.3 L cylinder)

48 L X-engine: "Sla 16" by Simmering-Graz-Pauker and "212" by Porsche.

2.3 L cylinder: Porschetyp 192 for engine "203". This might be the 37 L engine, but as you can see in the above table, Spielberger notes that it's for an 18-cylinder project.

3 L cylinder: Porschetyp 213 for engine "212"

 

The key sentence in the last part is "in collaboration with" (in Zusammenarbeit mit). Argus is working on a 12 or 16-cylinder 800 HP engine in collaboration with *somebody*. Spielberger is probably talking about Simmering here, but he's talking about MAN in the part before it. Spielberger does not talk about the name nor whether it was actually built.

The Heydekampf document states that both Argus and Simmering are working on an 800 HP engine. It's possible it's the same engine.