Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Clan_Ghost_Bear said:

 

Any reason that the Borsuk IFV wasn't considered for this role? Having the tank destroyer and IFV on the same basic platform seems like the best idea.

 

Becouse Borsuk will be not redy. MON want's to choose "otokar-brzezina" tracked rocket tank destroyer in Q1 FYI2020 and Borsuk will be redy to production in 2022-2023.

So the most resonable solution: IFV Borsuk chassis + Spike LR will not by choosen.

 

More or less all is about lobbying for Hellfire.

IMHO whole program wil be canceled after parlamentary election couse money resons.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2019 at 10:57 PM, Clan_Ghost_Bear said:

 

Any reason that the Borsuk IFV wasn't considered for this role? Having the tank destroyer and IFV on the same basic platform seems like the best idea.

 

Because for next 4 - 5 years Borsuk will exist in quantity of one vehicle.

HSW (in 2013) wanted to build two prototypes but MoD refused that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today our PM signiture contract for upgrade up to 318 T-72M1.

https://www.premier.gov.pl/wydarzenia/aktualnosci/premier-mateusz-morawiecki-odbudowujemy-potencjal-polskiej-armii.html

Wizyta w Zakładach Mechanicznych "Bumar Łabędy"

 

Firstly, it will be upgraded between 250 and 318 tanks. It depends on how much money from this PLN 1.75 billion will be spent during program.
Secondly, the range of work on tanks will be different - some T-72M1 wil get more mork other less,. It's  due to fact that some of them have been rebuild since 2014 so it's not neccary to rebuild all tanks.
Thirdly, "small modernization"  includes: 

PNK-55/72 „Radomka” for driver

- Liswarta (or TKN-3Z) for Tc

- new fast hoping ECCM radio  RRC 9310AP "Radmor" (in comander tank - two radios)

 - full seto of PCT-72 thermal sight for T-72 tanks  including KLW-1 thermal cameras and two monitors - one for Tk and one for gunner.

And thats all...very budget rebuild whit cosmetic "upgrade". 

 

About PNK-72, Liswarta and PCT72 you can find data here:

https://pcosa.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/PCO_product_catalogue.pdf

pages 18 -21

About RRC 9310AP "Radmor" here:

http://www.radmor.com.pl/eng/Military-products/Radios/RRC-9310AP-tactical-VHF-ECCM-50W-vehicle-radio

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

     So this is basically taking old T-72s and putting thermal imager inside? Reminds me some other T-72 modernization... can we call it T-72PL3?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

     So this is basically taking old T-72s and putting thermal imager inside? Reminds me some other T-72 modernization... can we call it T-72PL3?

 

Not only - most important is full factory rebuild and new digital and fast hoping radio RRC 9310AP able to work in C3 and BMS. Thermal camera and new passive nocto for driver is next.

But more or less -the same poor shit as first T-72B3 bath...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This time, photo taken by myself.

APC Rosomak firing single 81mm camouflage granate GAK-81

 

single 81mm in 1st salvo:

EzHjNO1.jpg

 

 

and single 81mm in 2th salvo:

JO4wRCA.jpg

 

 

And this one was mucht difficult due to weather conditions.

 

Six 120mm motar round on one picture:

ZQBziR8.jpg

 

And twins:

PEs47ZW.jpg

 

 

And the result:

z91HOHp.jpg

 

 

 

 

In summary - 120mm SMK Rak is very good weapons, very powerfull modern and now the best serial produce in the world. Nice that at least one type of weapons producing in my country can be on top lvl... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2019 at 1:45 PM, Militarysta said:

Today our PM signiture contract for upgrade up to 318 T-72M1.

https://www.premier.gov.pl/wydarzenia/aktualnosci/premier-mateusz-morawiecki-odbudowujemy-potencjal-polskiej-armii.html

Wizyta w Zakładach Mechanicznych "Bumar Łabędy"

 

Firstly, it will be upgraded between 250 and 318 tanks. It depends on how much money from this PLN 1.75 billion will be spent during program.
Secondly, the range of work on tanks will be different - some T-72M1 wil get more mork other less,. It's  due to fact that some of them have been rebuild since 2014 so it's not neccary to rebuild all tanks.
Thirdly, "small modernization"  includes: 

PNK-55/72 „Radomka” for driver

- Liswarta (or TKN-3Z) for Tc

- new fast hoping ECCM radio  RRC 9310AP "Radmor" (in comander tank - two radios)

 - full seto of PCT-72 thermal sight for T-72 tanks  including KLW-1 thermal cameras and two monitors - one for Tk and one for gunner.

And thats all...very budget rebuild whit cosmetic "upgrade". 

 

About PNK-72, Liswarta and PCT72 you can find data here:

https://pcosa.com.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/PCO_product_catalogue.pdf

pages 18 -21

About RRC 9310AP "Radmor" here:

http://www.radmor.com.pl/eng/Military-products/Radios/RRC-9310AP-tactical-VHF-ECCM-50W-vehicle-radio

 

The 409 million euro program will make Rheinmetall not happy with their business program in Poland, or? What impact may be expected for them? I thought that Polish MOD wanted to participate at MGCS program. Is that now delayed or even obsolete?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gun Ready

 

It's mucht more complicated. First - this goverment in Poland now have dogma about building 4th division (The 18th "Iron" division) and still having in army 12 mech and mot bde (+ 2 areomobile). While we haven't enught soilders and money. To be honest - money level cover at least 6-8 briades on "NATO level" wile they want to have double of that. Impossible.

And now we have typical improvisation. Polish Army whit 4 div need at least 840 tanks.

 

IMHO Rheinmetall  will have difficult times in Poland couse 2PL program is very far from good cooperation term. Of course at least half is couse polish industry sins but in overal shape - KMW proposal in 2015 where mucht better and accurately calculated. In common opinion here choose RHM was mistake for multiple reson but it was caused by polish PGZ group who chose a partner in the program. PGZ told RHM fairytails about polish competition and RHM told PGZ fairytails about cost and posibilitiest to improve Leo 2A4. Result as known - whole 2PL program for 128 Leopard 2A4 will cost 3,4 bln PLN and finall tanks capabilities are questionable in some areas. 

 

Now this whole bubble talko about "polish nex gen tank" is just smooke scren before parliamentary elections (this autum) and easy PR explanation why T-72M1 are upgraded in so limited way. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Polish "Telesystem Mesko Company" is now offcial Rafael cooperator-factory in supply chain for IDF. 

https://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=28640&fbclid=IwAR0uD-6FlZBySRSdfzm1u5ze8gEmT9hE4HTfCAgD92JeqU-N-gFuoznLacE

 

Produced is part of seeker for air defens in DFI.

 

Telesystem Mesko is produced combat proven ( :D ) MANPADS  "Grom" (Thunderbolt)  and "Piorun" (Lightning)  - all was based on Igla-1 but whole electronic and seekr is polish since 1998 and mechanics is new in "Piorun" now. The system was exported to Georgia, (30 luncher/100 missailes), Indonesia (140) , Lithuania (20/240), Japan (1), USA (ca 12 / 120).  Now Telesystem-Mesko is upgrading all ukrianian Igla-1 (couse they seeker is usles now), and Indian Navy P-22 seeker for 33 missailes.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lurked the forum for quite some time by now, but quite honestly i've read some things here about the current modernization of the T-72s in Poland, that i need to write something. This "modernization" or maybe more accurately modification and restoration to usable standard isn't slightly comparable to T-72B3, the B3 is a cheap modernization of an already much better tank than than Polish T-72Ms or M1s that are at best comparable to the T-72A and that's only in case of M1s.  It isn't clear if a thermal imager will be installed, rumors going around this farce of a modernization say they will only perform passivization of the NVG so it doesn't need to use IR lamp and even if some of those tanks will get a thermal imager, there are clear informations saying there will be no digital FCS installed due to tight budget. Not to mention that there is only about 1500 pieces of semi-modern ammunition (that is probably used up, or thrown out by now, as those rounds had problems with cracking at the base) for those tanks and the vast majority if not all are just using steel core BM15s so their tactical usefullness is close to 0 and the MoD said no 125 mm ammo will be bought. I can't even understand how can someone even remotely compare this farce to a cheap but semi-effective actual modernization that made T-72Bs usable. Also, the radio equipment those tanks will be getting is ridculous, tanks like Leo 2s and Pt-91s in Polish service still often don't have proper radio equipment but those steel coffins will get one. Priorities first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5ae72d0019ee865c008b468c-750-375.jpg

 

OK, so Poland is sending LOR for 60 Javelin FGM-147F/G CLU and 180 missailes as first bath.

 

Javeli will go to Terytorial Forces not Armed Forces. Whole need is ca.255 Javelin CLU and 1,5k missailes + other ATGM.

 

All is based here:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojska_Obrony_Terytorialnej

 

Right now Terytorial Forces had 17 brigades till december 2019.

In eacht brigade we have: 5 infanty bde, and independent support company. In theory finall modell will look like this:

 

Terytorial Forces Infanty Bde: all :18 ATGM's

1st inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

2th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

3th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

4th inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin

5th  inf reg in support platoon - 3x ATGM Javelin 

1st independent support platoon - 3x Spike ATGM

 

So whole terytorial forces need at least 255 Javelin ATGM and 51 Spike LR ATGM. Till now this 60 CLU and 180 missiles will be placed "temporary" on level "independent support platoon" but finall modell is like above.

 

======================================================

Other news in case ATGM in Poland:

 

Polish WITU is developing "Mosqito" ATGM system - it will be ready in 2022 whit unit cost (ATGM) ca 75k $. 80% components is producet in Poland.

 

Io3NlLU.jpg

 

AYxHMbV.jpg

 

 

aYS8uUA.jpg

 

And from the other side - Telesystem-Mesko is ending "The Pirate" system so laser guided ATGM:

 

T1mRurf.jpg

 

Whit very interesting "APSproof" laser guidence system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...