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In Which Britain Tells Europe to "Stuff It"; Also David Cameron Takes His Football and Goes Home

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I meant more along the lines of initiating and then spending the two years pointing out all the downsides in the hopes of swinging a second vote before the deadline.

Sort of a 'force them to eat the soup they cooked' approach.

 

More agile political minds than mine can think of other ways to walk back this thing, I'm sure.

You can't. If you invoke Article 50, you have to leave the EU. No backpedalling 

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Well, before you OD on your own smug there, it seems to me that Nigel was saying two things:

 

1. He couldn't guarantee that the NHS would get the extra money.

 

2. If he had been running that ad campaign (he claims he wasn't), he would not have made that claim.

 

I have no opinion on Brexit, but it seems obvious to me that Brexit opponents are simply unable to believe that their enemies are anything but drooling, completely buffoonish troglodytes. If any of you think it's outrageous of me to point this out, please let me suggest that you stop doing it regardless of how you feel, as this is exactly the same attitude that the US gun control lobby has towards the NRA, and the NRA routinely kicks their ass.

 

The media is couching Farage's statements as him being caught in a lie, but a dimwitted stunt monkey could figure out that's horseshit. As on Brexit, I have no opinion of Farage and am kind of only vaguely aware of who the guy is, so for all I know he is probably a gigantic liar (he is in politics after all), but I'm also not an idiot and it's incredibly obvious that the media is lying to me about what he said. The media is saying "Farage is reneging on his promise" when what he actually said was "it was stupid of the campaign (that I didn't run) to promise that, nobody could guarantee that money would go to the NHS specifically".

 

Maybe, anti-Brexiters, you didn't get whomped tonight because the people of the UK are so goddamn stupid they got taken in by a shyster like Farage. Maybe you got whomped because people can smell your bullshit coming a mile away, and when they call you out on it, you dismiss them as illiterate morlocks. So, it may be past time for anti-Brexit folks to start taking their political adversaries seriously, is what I'm saying.

Let the morlock-blaming commence:

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/AAtd6

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You can't. If you invoke Article 50, you have to leave the EU. No backpedalling 

Yep and nope:

 

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/

 

"5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.”

 

Article 49:

 

"Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union. The European Parliament and national Parliaments shall be notified of this application. The applicant State shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members. The conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on which the Union is founded, which such admission entails, shall be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State. This agreement shall be submitted for ratification by all the contracting States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. The conditions of eligibility agreed upon by the European Council shall be taken into account."

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So withdrawal simply resets things to the initial state. The UK can leave and then reapply to come back once properly (and publically) chastened that it ever thought about leaving mother europe.

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Yes, but this means they leave. And then come back in. You can't start Article 50 proceedings and say "Wait! I changed my mind!". You're going to be out the door, and you'll have to reapply again like a normal country.

Which for the UK means that they will likely have Schengen and the Euro imposed on them.

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Yes, but this means they leave. And then come back in. You can't start Article 50 proceedings and say "Wait! I changed my mind!". You're going to be out the door, and you'll have to reapply again like a normal country.

Which for the UK means that they will likely have Schengen and the Euro imposed on them.

Agreed, although that last part might not happen for any number of reasons.

 

So there actually aren't any easy ways that I can see to walk this back for the moment. Which, ironically, probably means that the UK is out for good.

We'll see what the next two years have in store - whether this is the beginning of a big breakaway, a few years of the UK being kept out in the cold to teach it a lesson, or something else.

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If the UK does leave and tries to get let in again, the EU has every incentive to kick them while they're down to ensure that none of the more insolent members even think of trying this in the future.

I think it has every incentive to try and kick them from now until then, in the hopes that they find a pliant vassal state begging to be let back in once they have the chance.

 

On the other hand; expecting the EU to do anything, let alone do it unanimously and quickly, is a bit of a pipe dream.

 

My feeling is that life will go on.

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It's not exactly wrong...

13524368_10210029381755548_8987651010558

So we're not doing the whole "respect thy elders" thing anymore, I guess.

Look, if only geriatric walker-racers voted for Brexit, anti-Brexiters would be saying that they're such evil, racist old people who don't care about the nation's future.

If only young, hip twentysomethings voted for Brexit, anti-Brexiters would be wailing about how stupid young people are.

See the problem?

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Yeah, but the youth vote doesn't usually matter that much because, you know, young people are too apathetic and don't come out to vote.

Also, what problem? It's pretty consistent with what we know about how people vote. And it's also entirely correct to say that younger people have a lot more at stake when it comes to this whole Brexit thing, whatever the consequences may be

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Somebody just pointed this out to me. The date this referendum was held on, was the same date on which the Dutch humiliated the English during one of the Anglo-Dutch wars.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway

 

 It was one of the worst defeats in the Royal Navy's history, and one of the worst suffered by the British military. Horace George Franks called it the "most serious defeat it has ever had in its home waters."

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Yeah, but the youth vote doesn't usually matter that much because, you know, young people are too apathetic and don't come out to vote.

Also, what problem? It's pretty consistent with what we know about how people vote. And it's also entirely correct to say that younger people have a lot more at stake when it comes to this whole Brexit thing, whatever the consequences may be

I don't know whether you are on one side or the other, but I think recent events has proven that dismissing the validity of your political opponents' opinions based on their affiliations is a losing move.

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I'm not dismissing them. I find such a strong correlation between age and remain/leave to be pretty striking.

I'm not British, so Brexit doesn't really affect me (though I think the British are a lot more dependent on the EU than they like to admit, and they will be hurting pretty badly if they really do pursue this course).

They will have to think very long and hard about this because, all things considered, the British actually have a pretty good deal from the Euros, and if they leave, they are most definitely not going to get nearly as good an agreement in the future.

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I'm not dismissing them. I find such a strong correlation between age and remain/leave to be pretty striking.

I'm not British, so Brexit doesn't really affect me (though I think the British are a lot more dependent on the EU than they like to admit, and they will be hurting pretty badly if they really do pursue this course).

They will have to think very long and hard about this because, all things considered, the British actually have a pretty good deal from the Euros, and if they leave, they are most definitely not going to get nearly as good an agreement in the future.

Yeah, if they do try to join back up, the deal they get won't be anywhere near as sweet as the one they had.

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