Toxn Posted September 11, 2017 Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 07/09/2017 at 9:04 AM, Collimatrix said: Better steels for small-arms barrels! This looks like another example of small arms technology slowly catching up to tank technology. Or, alternatively, small arms technology slowly catching up to itself in the 1950s. Steel with hyper-clean microstructure has been used in tank guns for decades now, as well as in tank suspension elements and possibly tank armor (what tank armor is actually made out of being super seekrit). Also, the Carpenter 158 used in mil-spec AR-15 bolts is a VIM/VAR steel with similarly extremely clean microstructure. Generally speaking, the structural properties of steel are a tradeoff. Changing the steel's grain structure in such a way that increases hardness, for example, will also reduce the steel's toughness. Processes like VIM/VAR and ESR remove minute quantities of contaminants like phosphorus and sulfur. This allows properties like hardness, toughness and fatigue life all to be improved simultaneously. At least, if you have a expert metallurgist on staff and all the right equipment to do the heat treating precisely enough. Obviously, like anything this good, all of these steel refining processes are costly. The other problem being that ruining your carefully-controlled grain structure by overheating the thing becomes (even) more of an issue. You do not want to build your part to within a few percent of its material tolerances and then have it become exponentially weaker at a bad moment because troepie couldn't control his trigger finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Holy shit yes! @LostCosmonaut Quote Regardless of the caliber, the weapon operates based on the use of fission gas energy that affects the short stroke piston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 18 hours ago, Toxn said: The other problem being that ruining your carefully-controlled grain structure by overheating the thing becomes (even) more of an issue. You do not want to build your part to within a few percent of its material tolerances and then have it become exponentially weaker at a bad moment because troepie couldn't control his trigger finger. I don't believe that is an issue. As I understand it, the different grain structures are different allotropes of iron, or sometimes alternating bands of different allotropes, or precipitation of molecules that are normally dissolved into the iron. Changing from one allotrope to another requires a phase change, which requires energy input. Various tricks are used to "trap" the iron in different phases at room temperature. I do not think that the presence of the tramp elements raises the energy input required to change the phase of the iron, but rather that they initiate and propagate cracks, and make it harder for the metal atoms to flow plastically past each other without forming cracks. I think that ESR and VIM/VAR is gain without pain, assuming that you don't mind the $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Collimatrix said: I don't believe that is an issue. As I understand it, the different grain structures are different allotropes of iron, or sometimes alternating bands of different allotropes, or precipitation of molecules that are normally dissolved into the iron. Changing from one allotrope to another requires a phase change, which requires energy input. Various tricks are used to "trap" the iron in different phases at room temperature. I do not think that the presence of the tramp elements raises the energy input required to change the phase of the iron, but rather that they initiate and propagate cracks, and make it harder for the metal atoms to flow plastically past each other without forming cracks. I think that ESR and VIM/VAR is gain without pain, assuming that you don't mind the $$$. Having thought about it a bit, I think you're right. I was thinking that you get the best out of your high-purity steel by controlling the grain structure with careful heat treatment, but it should actually have a relatively better grain structure regardless of heat treatment. So it would fare better than equivalent steel no matter how much troepie fouled up. I guess the only possible complaint would be something along the lines of impurities getting back in by diffusion or something (ie: a decade from now and your super-steel turns into normal steel), but this is unlikely to be an issue at the temperatures that firearms work in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Toxn said: I guess the only possible complaint would be something along the lines of impurities getting back in by diffusion or something (ie: a decade from now and your super-steel turns into normal steel), but this is unlikely to be an issue at the temperatures that firearms work in. I believe that diffusion of propellant gas into barrel steel is a significant factor in bore wear. Otherwise, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just a cool photo Meplat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 AS Vals, everywhere. Except tankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 AMB-17 Somebody on Otvaga linked to this... AMBK-12? D.E. Watters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 nice fottershap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetechie Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I would so buy one of those if i could though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 So, uh, I just noticed: The barrel of the XM806 moves forward with every shot. What the fuck is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, Sturgeon said: So, uh, I just noticed: The barrel of the XM806 moves forward with every shot. What the fuck is going on? IIRC it's 'hybrid soft recoil' Why was the XM806 canned again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Lack of requirements, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Ramlaen said: IIRC it's 'hybrid soft recoil' Why was the XM806 canned again? Oh, heh, it works exactly like I guessed it would. Yeah, sort of like API or Becker, you ignite the round when there's forward momentum, so it has to overcome it. Except they are using it to soften recoil, not keep the breech closed. Clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 It just seems like a waste to throw away such an innovative and lightweight design, especially when it had funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetechie Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Sturgeon said: So, uh, I just noticed: The barrel of the XM806 moves forward with every shot. What the fuck is going on? If it's hybrid soft recoil it's likely based off a patent by a guy named sugg which is kinda a rehash of some stoner Robinson stuff i think maybe sorta tied to crg-26 and some later ares stuff... But that's kinda a guess there's at least 3 types and separate patent trails on very similar stuff that's really spotty, because a good chunk of all of it may still be classified. Or at least that's what it looks like because you see really early stuff in patent chains that are pretty plainly the early versions of more polished stuff we see later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Doesn't the LWMMG use a nearly identical system or am I remembering wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Khand-e said: Doesn't the LWMMG use a nearly identical system or am I remembering wrong? I don't think its barrel moves forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguetechie Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 It's barrel doesn't move forward, you are correct... I'm kinda halfway sure i know where the patent fork is, but I'm rereading about 30 patents trying to really narrow it all down which is far from easy. The LWMMG comes from a series of at least 8 major main derivatives in a group of patents that all have impulse average averaged or averaging and short recoil gas operation and etc in the name in varying combinations... Then there's offshoots of the sugg system and two other systems by guys who's names are escaping me right now, one of which is basically the progenitor of the gd LWMMG and the others belong to 806 312 307 etc etc... Plus there's a bunch of ares origin stuff as well as externally powered and self powered armor machine gun competition retreads running around the periphery... (This includes the ARAS guns btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Such a collection of different weapons in different calibers. Guy in the center have 2 assault rifles, lol Collimatrix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Looks like a big pistol Donward and Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted September 15, 2017 Report Share Posted September 15, 2017 Helicopter variant of Kord HMG mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 L85A3 D.E. Watters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 "L85A3" is currently an HK-funded project. The name is a bit like the when Colt named the 703 the "M16A2." They thought they had the Army by the short and curlies, and anything new they trotted out was sure to be adopted. Only, in the case of HK and the UK military, that may actually be an accurate assessment of reality. L85A3 is actually built on new receivers, unlike the L85A2. It's certainly the very best L85 that ever was. I have no idea why anyone would want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Collimatrix said: L85A3 is actually built on new receivers, Where did we hear this, again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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