Jump to content
Sturgeon's House
Khand-e

The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

Recommended Posts

Regarding the ADVAP stuff we've discovered (open tip EPR, tungsten carbide core) this may/may not be interesting given it's mostly speculation.  A round known as the Athena/Anthena PPI which came in 7.62 and .50 caliber.   I don't think anyone has posted about this before, but if I am repeating known information my apologies.

 

powerpoint document: http://www.powershow.com/view1/1f1478-ZDc1Z/NDIA_powerpoint_ppt_presentation

 

PDFs on the rounds from small arms review: 

.50 caliber: https://www.smallarmsreview.com/archive/detail.arc.entry.cfm?arcid=12779

 

7.62mm: https://www.smallarmsreview.com/archive/detail.arc.entry.cfm?arcid=12778

 

There are images on the internet (especially on cartridgecollectors if you search for 'Anthena PPI') but since photobucket decided to fuck over the internet there are alot fewer to be found.  Like the DU APDS stuff that is sometimes floating around and there is alot less of too. 

 

Anyhow, whilst open tip AP rounds aren't a new thing PPI rounds are a more recent version I can recall and it may have some relevance to any 'improvements' ADVAP may provide (EPR construction is similar to PPI, and I'd bet the ADVAP core is heavier than in M993.)   Just my 2 cents and take it as you will. :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Willy Brandt said:

Sorry i am still trying to ignore that stupid cartridge

Heh. The Subsonic loading is moderately useful out of an AR type platform with a good suppressor on it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Heh. The Subsonic loading is moderately useful out of an AR type platform with a good suppressor on it.

 

Maybe but for most military applications you dont need subsonic ammo esp one that fits into existing magazines and guns, which end up blowing the gun up.
Suppressors are great for the military and so on but a bigger cartridge with less speed, more recoil, less penetration, less range, less mag capacity, more weight and which can easily chamber into existing system and blow them up makes me question why you would want something like that.
Maybe the SEALS will find them useful but still why do you want them? Just for clearing houses with with some poor fellas in it with no armor on? Blasting them with 2-3 5.56 rounds will do the job probably fine. But for this sole job getting a new gun in a new caliber? Colour me very sceptical.

 

The same with 6.5mm Creedmoor or whatever they want their new sniper rifles in
and that .338 Normie machine gun round.

Maybe you can try to convince me but 5.56, 7.62 and .338 Lapua/.300 Win Mag seem to do the job just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Willy Brandt said:

Maybe but for most military applications you dont need subsonic ammo esp one that fits into existing magazines and guns, which end up blowing the gun up.
Suppressors are great for the military and so on but a bigger cartridge with less speed, more recoil, less penetration, less range, less mag capacity, more weight and which can easily chamber into existing system and blow them up makes me question why you would want something like that.
Maybe the SEALS will find them useful but still why do you want them? Just for clearing houses with with some poor fellas in it with no armor on? Blasting them with 2-3 5.56 rounds will do the job probably fine. But for this sole job getting a new gun in a new caliber? Colour me very sceptical.

 

The same with 6.5mm Creedmoor or whatever they want their new sniper rifles in
and that .338 Normie machine gun round.

Maybe you can try to convince me but 5.56, 7.62 and .338 Lapua/.300 Win Mag seem to do the job just fine.

Don't really disagree with you. I'm not the biggest fan of the Blackout, but I've seen some people who are fond of it as a replacement for the MP-5SD.  So covert ops folks might find it useful.  And I guess not scaring wild hogs in a semi-auto platform is useful.  And I guess I approve of it as a method of finding out who's an idiot. :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Willy Brandt said:

Maybe but for most military applications you dont need subsonic ammo esp one that fits into existing magazines and guns, which end up blowing the gun up.
Suppressors are great for the military and so on but a bigger cartridge with less speed, more recoil, less penetration, less range, less mag capacity, more weight and which can easily chamber into existing system and blow them up makes me question why you would want something like that.
Maybe the SEALS will find them useful but still why do you want them? Just for clearing houses with with some poor fellas in it with no armor on? Blasting them with 2-3 5.56 rounds will do the job probably fine. But for this sole job getting a new gun in a new caliber? Colour me very sceptical.

 

The same with 6.5mm Creedmoor or whatever they want their new sniper rifles in
and that .338 Normie machine gun round.

Maybe you can try to convince me but 5.56, 7.62 and .338 Lapua/.300 Win Mag seem to do the job just fine.

 

Well, it's pretty much agreed here that .300 Blackout is universal garbage but, 6.5mm Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor do legitimately beat the shit out of 7.62x51mm in most applications.

 

SOCOM was looking to to sample 6.5mm CM and .260 rem to replace their 7.62x51mm chambered DMRs a bit ago but, haven't heard much about that lately so probably canned. =/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Legiondude said:

Is this the proper thread to ask for opinions of Creedmoor vs Grendel?

 

the 6.5mm Creedmoor is a significantly more powerful cartridge but won't fit in an AR-15 length mag well, while the 6.5mm Grendel will. (this also applies to action lengths in bolt action rifles of course.)

 

The 6.5mm Creedmoor can also use longer, heavier bullets that perform better at longer ranges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Legiondude said:

Is this the proper thread to ask for opinions of Creedmoor vs Grendel?

 

Sure. The Grendel is really a totally different round, far less powerful and unsuited to long range shooting due to it's low relative capacity. I would say that, today, it's niches include hunting and known distance target shooting. It also would not be a terrible machine gun round, although it doesn't conform to Modern thinking about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And of course

f621ef5b5de8.jpg

Taking into account that this was an event near Estonian border, those guns are needed to fight underwater Estonians. Or underswamp Estonians, to be precise.

 

24a47cacb6d3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By LostCosmonaut
      There are many who feel that the 5.56 NATO is a superlative rifle round. Much has been said about larger alternatives to 5.56, such as various 6.5mm and 6.8mm rounds among others. Less has been said about smaller rounds. Off the top of my head, I can recall that there was a German 4.6x36mm round, used in the HK36, and the British 4.85x49mm round. Neither of these rounds managed to gain widespread acceptance. My knowledge of the voodoo that is ballistics is somewhat limited, so I'm uncertain as to whether these failures were caused by flaws with the rounds themselves, or because they were below some lower limit of effective bullet size, beyond which performance decreases rapidly. Could we see a resurgence of these concepts in the future, or do they represent an evolutionary dead-end?
×