The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

[roguetechie]

6 hours ago, Meplat said:

I own some myself, but no way in hell am I going to do the equivalent of "Shaking a Jegs catalog" over them in a misguided attempt to buy skill /accuracy.

 

I get what you're saying, I run my guns pretty sparse too.

 

Except for the buffer, those I pretty much stick to the heavier end of the pool on so I don't beat my guns to pieces.

 

I just have to say that the bootleg Inc adjustable bcg would be much more confidence inspiring if it didn't state on the website it was compatible with all milspec direct impediment uppers...

 

[LoooSeR]

AF of DNR held a match in tactical shooting

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Ramlaen]

According to a 4chan anon at the NRA convention, the Magpul bipod

Quote

It has 60* of cant and 30* of pan. You can lock it into a cant-only mode. Adjusts from 6.3-10.3 inches.

All models are $110 at introduction, including the ADM QD version.

 

[Meplat]

15 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

I get what you're saying, I run my guns pretty sparse too.

 

Except for the buffer, those I pretty much stick to the heavier end of the pool on so I don't beat my guns to pieces.

 

I just have to say that the bootleg Inc adjustable bcg would be much more confidence inspiring if it didn't state on the website it was compatible with all milspec direct impediment uppers...

 

If you keep it reasonable, that's a non-issue.  But dear lord, there was a lot of shit (and I mean SHIT) being sold for the AR platform when I threw my hands up and left the industry,

 

I cannot imagine what garbage is being foisted upon the unwary ,presently.

 

I'm expecting there will (eventually) be a backlash toward the idea of the "twelve pound Carbine AR", where people go back to the basics.

Brownell's seems to have had a good response toward their retro AR's, so there is hope that sanity is returning.

 

(ETA-  "oldmanshakeshandatcloud.jpg" goes here.)

[roguetechie]

3 hours ago, Meplat said:

 

I'm expecting there will (eventually) be a backlash toward the idea of the "twelve pound Carbine AR", where people go back to the basics.

Brownell's seems to have had a good response toward their retro AR's, so there is hope that sanity is returning.

 

(ETA-  "oldmanshakeshandatcloud.jpg" goes here.)

 

I think at various points I've been one of the 12 pound carbine people.

 

Even now I have a proclivity for the ass end only carbine and heavier barrel profiles than I really need.

 

And back in the day I had an AR with the hammer stock which was absurdly heavy and a patently bad idea if you liked your buffer tower.

 

I'm getting better about this now though. I have precisely one AR with a light on it and it's the I'm going to introduce you to Jesus for breaking into my house gun, which also has a linear comp so I make the other guy more deaf than me.

 

Otherwise, I don't have lights on my AR's because it's kind of illegal to pop shots off after dark most places.

 

IDK though, at this point I'm inclined to support anyone making, buying, or using whatever the hell they feel like no matter how outlandish based simply on the idea that I need to support everyone's rights to pursue this hobby/passion/whatever in any damn way they please.

 

The FUDD's fucked us once already, and if the other side can pull off another miracle of splitting us like that again they're going to make sure It's permanent.

 

It's fucking aggravating that you have to be a constitutional scholar and an ambassador for the entire fucking community at all times when you are even within arm's reach of a firearm, all the time online, and are pretty much reduced to a single issue voter in every election but it's kinda the situation we have.

[Collimatrix]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:38 PM, Hisname said:

 

 

If it weren't for the text I would say that picture is obviously reversed.  Why would the ejection port be on the left?

[Sturgeon]

8 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

According to a 4chan anon at the NRA convention, the Magpul bipod

 

 

Yeah nice scoop 4chan, they already had their release like 2 days ago lol

[Ramlaen]

4 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yeah nice scoop 4chan, they already had their release like 2 days ago lol

 

The guy corrected himself and said the one with an ADM mount was only a demo, he also said it was rated for 300lb of downward pressure.

 

 

[Sturgeon]

The MLOK one has me as a Day 1 buyer TBH

[Meplat]

2 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

I think at various points I've been one of the 12 pound carbine people.

 

Even now I have a proclivity for the ass end only carbine and heavier barrel profiles than I really need.

 

And back in the day I had an AR with the hammer stock which was absurdly heavy and a patently bad idea if you liked your buffer tower.

 

I'm getting better about this now though. I have precisely one AR with a light on it and it's the I'm going to introduce you to Jesus for breaking into my house gun, which also has a linear comp so I make the other guy more deaf than me.

 

Otherwise, I don't have lights on my AR's because it's kind of illegal to pop shots off after dark most places.

 

IDK though, at this point I'm inclined to support anyone making, buying, or using whatever the hell they feel like no matter how outlandish based simply on the idea that I need to support everyone's rights to pursue this hobby/passion/whatever in any damn way they please.

 

The FUDD's fucked us once already, and if the other side can pull off another miracle of splitting us like that again they're going to make sure It's permanent.

 

It's fucking aggravating that you have to be a constitutional scholar and an ambassador for the entire fucking community at all times when you are even within arm's reach of a firearm, all the time online, and are pretty much reduced to a single issue voter in every election but it's kinda the situation we have.

My issue is more with the predatory nature some of the makers and vendors have, that "IF YOU DONT HAVE THIS ON YOUR AR YOU ARE NOT TIER 1 OPERATORRRR" or some such nonsense.

I had a fucking PVS2 on a SP-1 Colt when many of them were still in junior high, and even then I found the novelty had worn off in about...Fifteen minutes.

1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

 

 

If it weren't for the text I would say that picture is obviously reversed.  Why would the ejection port be on the left?

 

Same reason the P-38 ejects to the left. "Because".

1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yeah nice scoop 4chan, they already had their release like 2 days ago lol

/K/ has not had a real "scoop" since I posted my G-36 trunnion pics there, many many moons ago. (~10+ years).

[Hisname]

12 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

 

If it weren't for the text I would say that picture is obviously reversed.  Why would the ejection port be on the left? 

Please excuse me, but there is very little information on this pistol. This is a pistol for the cartridge .45 ACP; In the manufacture of the modification with a polymer frame, 3D printing technologies were used. The first version of the pistol with an all-metal frame turned out to be too heavy, but it was not completely rejected. It is preserved as a separate modification.

And the photo I came across only one. Here it is entirely:

In the figure with computer graphics, the silencer of the new modification with the lower location of the expansion chamber is most likely represented.

The project of the pistol is being developed in Tula, in TsKIB SOO (ЦКИБ СОО). And it is supervised by its director, Alexei Sorokin.

Data on the beginning of the project began to appear in early 2016. Alas, that's all I know about this pistol.

 

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

I love it when people on FB defend Anderson Arms.

The following picture was posted, 

 

 

 

And someone asked, "What makes Anderson bad?"

 

Quote

Nothing, just a bunch of internet clowns that talk about out of spec buffer detents. Which none of them actually saw first hand. Reminds me of the crowd that still hates ARs because their great great uncle’s brother’s cousin hated the M16 in Nam.

As for this guy ^^, figure out the “quality” of parts that are milspec 😂😂😂. Like what’s the pull weight of a milspec trigger(which I see you avoided)? Show me one quality knights gun, I’ll show you 5 that suck. The SR25 we had at work held 2-2.5moa with match ammo. The price tag for those guns...$18,000. Our KAC M4s were junk. So, you got rust on cheaply coated metal, welcome to the world of FN, colt and Knights. Cerakote it or hit it with a can of spray paint.

If people are gonna hate on some cheap ARs parts, where’s the universal hatred for Remington? The 700s were killing people, the build quality has sucked for decades, the bores aren’t centered on a lot of their barrels. My 700 build literally has nothing but the action left from from the factory and that was blueprinted because they suck from Remington.

Back to the AR world, which just like the 1911 world is full of a bunch of morons that let their mouths do their shooting. If you aren’t retarded, you build your own. It takes about 30 minutes. Spend your money where it counts, barrels, comps/brakes and triggers. The receiver brand is irrelevant. You can have a sub moa gun and not waste your money on noveske, the world’s greatest rebrander. This group is from an AR with an anderson Lower and a PSA upper with factory ammo. 

Run your gun not your mouth.

 

@Sturgeon

[Sturgeon]

I don't think a lot of people realize that all of these parts come from the same manufacturers. What makes one brand "bad" and another "good" is where on the QC pile they get their parts and how they finish them. So an upper receiver from Anderson may have been made by the same forge that makes for Colt - but Anderson is picking from the "seconds" pile. That's why some people see bad issues, and others don't. The guns aren't subject to the same QC process and selection. Duh.

At this point, this principle actually tracks pretty well with the cost of the gun, to a point. How much money do you have to shell out for a fully QC'd, military spec rifle? About $750, minimum, if buying singles (economies of scale can bring this down to the mid-600s per unit). If your AR was cheaper than that, then it's not up to that standard in some way. Simple as that. Doesn't make it a bad gun, just makes it what it is.

 

What people often miss about "milspec" is that it means parts are held to a standard - but that standard may be dated or worse than better commercial parts in various ways. Still, it's better to be held to that standard rather than no standard at all. Some companies will deliberately try to confuse this issue in one way or another ("we're milspec!" "really, what's your QC process look like?", or "milspec is shit!" "sure, but your parts aren't even held to that standard").

 

How much to spend on an AR depends on the circumstances. If you can inspect the rifle firsthand and essentially "do your own QC" then it's OK to buy cheaper in many cases. If what you need is just not that demanding, then you can buy cheaper. But that doesn't man Anderson, PSA, etc. are "just as good" as something from a top tier manufacturer.

 

[roguetechie]

On 5/5/2018 at 6:41 PM, Sturgeon said:

The MLOK one has me as a Day 1 buyer TBH

 

Do you know when they are due out, I'm going to set aside cash for one right now.

[Sturgeon]

1 hour ago, roguetechie said:

 

Do you know when they are due out, I'm going to set aside cash for one right now.

Summer. No due date.

[LoooSeR]

[LoooSeR]

From Kazakhstan's parade

[LoooSeR]

 

Title in russian, but they speak in english. Although there is not much interesting to hear.

[Ramlaen]

The 6.8mm round is the offspring of a project formerly known as the Enhanced Rifle Cartridge Program that put together Special Operations Command, the Army Marksmanship Unit and Remington Arms to create an alternative to the 5.56mm round currently in use across the force.

[Sturgeon]

2 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

The 6.8mm round is the offspring of a project formerly known as the Enhanced Rifle Cartridge Program that put together Special Operations Command, the Army Marksmanship Unit and Remington Arms to create an alternative to the 5.56mm round currently in use across the force.

 

Yeah, this is Dr. Jim Newill's baby. Supposed to be approx. a 125gr bullet at 3,300-3,500 ft/s in a CT format.

[Ramlaen]

19 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yeah, this is Dr. Jim Newill's baby. Supposed to be approx. a 125gr bullet at 3,300-3,500 ft/s in a CT format.

 

Wouldn’t this have a pretty stout recoil? I find it hard to believe you could control this in full auto while standing.

[Sturgeon]

1 hour ago, Ramlaen said:

 

Wouldn’t this have a pretty stout recoil? I find it hard to believe you could control this in full auto while standing.

Recoil would absolutely not be less than 7.62x51mm NATO, even with the efficiency boost that comes with the pressures they are talking about running (85,000-100,000 PSI). And any way you dice it, the velocity of the recoil would be significantly higher, so the kick would be sharper.

"But we already know this won't make for a suitable rifle, why are they wasting all this time and effort?" you may ask. Well, the folks at JSSAP have an answer for you!

 

"Accuracy / Controllability: (LEAD) Accuracy and controllability studies are required by the military in order to understand the contributors to accuracy and controllability to small arms systems, and to understand the technical opportunities and challenges associated with improving the Soldier's ability to control the weapon system during firing and to improve the time that it takes to hit a target, particularly for a follow on shot. With the ongoing Small Arms Ammunition Configuration Study (SAAC), and the Future Advanced Squad Technologies (FAST) Program, the Army LEADs this area, and should continue to LEAD, since higher powered ammunition is likely to require advanced controllability technologies to combat high recoil. Firing this type of ammunition at long ranges, through fully automatic weapon systems, and with the need to quickly take follow on shots is a military-unique requirement set. The Army is currently the LEAD for the design of advanced ammunition technologies that will need to be integrated with controllable and accurate weapon systems, and these systems should be developed concurrently. Industry/Academia are not leading this area because the advanced systems are not currently required or in demand. Military should LEAD this area to include recoil reduction technologies, controllability studies, active stabilization technologies, user interface technologies, advanced barrel technologies to meet more stringent accuracy requirements through a wide range of varying environmental conditions, and any weapon system and enabler technologies that have the ability to reduce Soldier induced aim error. It can be noted that Industry currently leads in active stabilization, however this is an area where an Army LEAD will permit better integration of the weapon with the active stabilization system."

 

In other words: "We have no idea how to make it controllable, but we're sure someone will develop magical recoil reduction technology!"

 

 

[Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect]

5 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

In other words: "We have no idea how to make it controllable, but we're sure someone will develop magical recoil reduction technology!"

 

 

 

[LoooSeR]

DPR showed some of their local-made guns. Kolhoz design bureau

 

Oplot-3M pistols

Spoiler

9x18, 10 round mag, 0.95 kg unloaded, 1.05 loaded.

 

Oplot SMG

Spoiler

9x18, 2.9 kg without ammo, 3.4 with. RoF is 850. 20 round double stack mag.

 

ASVK-14.5 ati-sniper rifle "Donchanka"

Spoiler

27 kg, 2.39 meters long, 14.5x114, 1.35 meters long barrel, max range - 1.5 km.

 

Separatist anti-sniper rifle

Spoiler

44 kg, 2.35 meters long, 1800 long barrel. Fires 23x152 mm rounds, max range 3.5 km.

[Ramlaen]

Is the Sig TANGO6...

 

On further reading it's apparently made by Light Optical Works in Japan.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Ramlaen