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The Small Arms Thread, Part 8: 2018; ICSR to be replaced by US Army with interim 15mm Revolver Cannon.

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6P41M and 6P69 GPMGs


   In a sense, the 7.62 mm machine guns known to us by the GRAU indexes 6P41M and 6P69 can be considered the next generation of the "Pecheneg" (6P41) family. Conditionally, 6P41M is designed to replace the "Pechenegs" in the troops [Army], and 6P69 is designed to meet the wishes of machine gunners of special forces units.

   The "emka" retained the concept of one barrel, and the "special" machine gun is equipped with two barrels of various lengths (short has a thread for suppressors) and a folding stock of adjustable length. The picture shows all three barrels and clearly shows the difference between them.
   Both long barrels provide the possibility of rearranging the bipod from the middle position to the muzzle mounting point.

First 2 barrels are for 6P69 (SF GPMG), lower is 6P41M for Army

ÑÑвол пÑлемÑÑа 6Ð41Ð, ÑÑвол пÑлемÑÑа 6Ð69, жÑÑнал ÐалаÑников


bipod mounting point near muzzle:




Possibly that those 2 are 6P69s with short and long barrels:






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On 6/6/2018 at 3:46 PM, Xlucine said:


Radial fins can be turned on a lathe pretty easily, longitudinal fins need a mill with a rotary table (or an extruded aluminium sleeve, for a modern design that wants to show off).

You can also do longitudinal fluting with a horizontal mill and an indexing head. And you can just about automate the process with 40's technology.



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Many people often confuse the appointment of longitudinal grooves on the gun barrel.


In this case, in the machine gun of the PK, longitudinal cuts on the barrel are located near the chamber, where the main heating occurs during the shooting.

And they serve for cooling, because from these longitudinal grooves the area of heat removal increases.



And in this case, on the TSVL-8 rifle (this rifle reminded me of the M2010, with a bolt and barrel  from CheyTac M200), the longitudinal grooves are absolutely necessary for the other.

They are needed to lighten the barrel of the rifle and there is nothing more to do with it. 

Although, someone believes that these longitudinal grooves on the barrel make the weapon more beautiful, give it a futuristic look.


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On 6/7/2018 at 10:47 PM, Sturgeon said:

I think longitudinal flutes are more likely to cause weirdness with the barrel's stress relief though.

Not that such was not already an issue.

There was plenty of work for barrel straighteners in the past on plain barrels. Some fluting on an already heavy profile barrel should not affect it any more than turning it to a smaller diameter, or the work of putting helical/radial cooling fins in/on it.

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On 6/8/2018 at 10:14 AM, LoooSeR said:

From 8:30 - disassembly and assembly of SR-2M, SR-3, etc.



I finally got around to watching this.

SR-3 was no big surprise, because I had read descriptions of how it works before.  The bolt carrier group is very much like an AK, but the fire control group is very much like a VZ-58.  I would like to see some details of exactly how the piston head and bolt work, since those look like they are different than an AK, and I am curious what they did there.

SR-2M appears to be a miniaturized version of the same thing.  It's a little like the Indian MSMC PDW, which is a miniaturized INSAS action.

The bolt appears to have three or four lugs.

These guns seem typical of the state of Russian small arms design.  The moving parts group is extremely compact.  However, the handguard retention method is archaic.  Weapons should have free-floated barrels, tests have clearly shown that this works better.  The controls placement needs improvement.  The SR-3's suppressor is giant, and looks like it was optimized for mass production.  The core is made of relatively thin, stamped discs welded together.  American suppressors are two generations past this sort of construction, and they are much more compact for the same performance.  In short, the heart of the gun looks very good, but the accessories around it are decades behind.

The Gyurza handgun also didn't have any major surprises from written descriptions.  It is, as far as I can tell, a fairly normal short-recoil operated pistol.  The locking mechanism is similar to a Walther P-38/Beretta 92, and the designers have used the fact that the barrel does not tilt to put the return spring around the barrel, which makes the front of the handgun a little more slim.

But again, the controls.  Why does this pistol have no slide stop?  Did the designer ever use a handgun before?  Why does it have a grip safety?

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:09 PM, LoooSeR said:

Geksagon company apperently is making those mods.



  Reveal hidden contents



I guess it's better than "RAILS . ALL THE RAILS"..

Still looks a bit odd.

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24 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

That would be... Odd.


If they are I imagine the logic is that this is what we got, it can’t hurt to try.


It just seems like a 6.X cartridge with the velocity requirements for defeating body armor at long ranges is not viable in the barrel life you would need for a LMG.

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13 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

I think GD really is proposing their .338 LWMMG for the NGSW.




Call me funny but I'm thinking it's based on it's little brother, this guy.




I'm also really wondering if we'll see the Knight's rising chamber gun patent make an appearance as well...



This Knight's armament patent specifically.

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