Walter_Sobchak Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperComrade Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Oh, it's that thing from the Sons of Guns episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 AK-12 and AK-15, Saiga-12 isp340, PL-14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Karden's AK-105. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Saiga Mk15.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Christmas came early this year Thats right, east German too These as-well, i paid an embarrassing amount of money for them LoooSeR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 RMN-50 or "50 mm ruchnoy minomyot sistemi Naymana", 50 mm caliber handheld mortar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Vitrina-G 50 mm caliber grenade launcher that was designed by KGB technical department just before 1980 Moscow Olimpics. Grenade was filled with tear gas chemicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khand-e Posted June 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Christmas came early this year Thats right, west German too These as-well, i paid an embarrassing amount of money for them Damn Tied, I didn't realize you had such poor taste in firearms. =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tied Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Damn Tied, I didn't realize you had such poor taste in firearms. =/ I bought those my nephew, he's a little wehraboo ever since i bought him some tiger tank toys, its plastic so its safe for kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Since polymer cases are sort of back in the news, I was wondering if anyone has attempted to use a cellulose composite or something for cases? Or, at least if anyone has done so recently. A reinforced cardboard case would shine in terms of insulating the powder. Plus, it would be easy to make fairly intricate composite structures using existing techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 It would also be shit for durability and waterproofing. :} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Since polymer cases are sort of back in the news, I was wondering if anyone has attempted to use a cellulose composite or something for cases? Or, at least if anyone has done so recently. A reinforced cardboard case would shine in terms of insulating the powder. Plus, it would be easy to make fairly intricate composite structures using existing techniques. Yes. In shotshells. For a time you could even find ones with an "all paper" case, and just a disc of metal to form the flange and support the battery cup primer. The concept carried into plastics later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 It would also be shit for durability and waterproofing. :} Not necessarily. You could have a sandwich construction (paper - fibreglass - paper) with phenolic resin or something to bond it. Throw in a wax-based outer coat and you're sorted. I'd also keep a rear cup, either in plastic or metal. So it would really be an updated shotshell sort of thing. Edit: moulding could be in the form of a simple plug and mould for the front of the cartridge. The rear cup would be pressed into the back, with glue and an internal lip to keep it from coming apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 The metal cup on modern shotshells is not really anything other than a semi-durable spacer for headspacing and a control for primer seating. If you cut one in half there is very little actual thickness to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Not necessarily. You could have a sandwich construction (paper - fibreglass - paper) with phenolic resin or something to bond it. Throw in a wax-based outer coat and you're sorted. I'd also keep a rear cup, either in plastic or metal. So it would really be an updated shotshell sort of thing. Edit: moulding could be in the form of a simple plug and mould for the front of the cartridge. The rear cup would be pressed into the back, with glue and an internal lip to keep it from coming apart. Are you talking about for civilian or military use? For military use, it wouldn't be durable enough to be dropped out of an airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Cellulose-fiber-reinforced phenolic resins are pretty tough. The commies did make a bunch of rifle stocks and magazines out of that stuff, and it holds up well. As an added plus, thermoset plastics are usually pretty good to go at high temperatures, which is important because you don't want it coming to pieces in the chamber and making trouble. Most of the research I've seen has focused on high-temperature thermoplastics. Thermoplastics have faster cycle times in production and better precision in injection molded parts. There's also the important question of how well the stuff works as a chamber obturator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashbotUS Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Picked this up from a family member recently and added to the collection. 1946 Marlin 336C 30-30. Going to go shoot things later. Lots of space and not a lot of neighbors. Donward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meplat Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Cellulose-fiber-reinforced phenolic resins are pretty tough. The commies did make a bunch of rifle stocks and magazines out of that stuff, and it holds up well. As an added plus, thermoset plastics are usually pretty good to go at high temperatures, which is important because you don't want it coming to pieces in the chamber and making trouble. Most of the research I've seen has focused on high-temperature thermoplastics. Thermoplastics have faster cycle times in production and better precision in injection molded parts. There's also the important question of how well the stuff works as a chamber obturator. It might seal fine, my concern would be getting the case durable enough for service without altering case volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Given the density difference between metal and plastic, even a substantial increase in bulk might still yield a lighter case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturgeon Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Cellulose-fiber-reinforced phenolic resins are pretty tough. The commies did make a bunch of rifle stocks and magazines out of that stuff, and it holds up well. As an added plus, thermoset plastics are usually pretty good to go at high temperatures, which is important because you don't want it coming to pieces in the chamber and making trouble. Most of the research I've seen has focused on high-temperature thermoplastics. Thermoplastics have faster cycle times in production and better precision in injection molded parts. There's also the important question of how well the stuff works as a chamber obturator. It doesn't sound like Toxn means bakelite or the stuff vz. 58 stocks are made of. It sounds like he means a resin-sealed cardboard vessel, which would not work well for case material, except in very low pressure applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter_Sobchak Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Here is a random question. I know that during the cold war they (unsucessfully) experimented with liquid propellents for tank guns. Did they ever do the same with small arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collimatrix Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 They looked at it for SPIW; there's a single picture in The Black Rifle showing that there was some conceptual playing with the idea at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeps_Guns_Tanks Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Some more photos from the shoot: Is that a poor little M1A your holding and making feel bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxn Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 It doesn't sound like Toxn means bakelite or the stuff vz. 58 stocks are made of. It sounds like he means a resin-sealed cardboard vessel, which would not work well for case material, except in very low pressure applications. No, I was actually thinking of something along the lines of a moulded composite. I'd just try to make the outer layer of as much cellulose as possible to prevent out gassing of the phenol. Having given it a bit more thought, I think a two-layer structure might get you the best results. More complex case geometries can also be had by moulding a separate front and rear (including cup) and then joining them as before. Chamber conformation would be an issue, so your composite would have to demonstrate good stability. This is another reason to have the outer layer be coated/impregnated with something waxy. Strength shouldn't be an issue so long as you don't try to keep to the same dimensions as existing cartridges. My gut instinct is that weight savings would be on the order of 10-15%. Cost savings, however, might be closer to 50%. Brass is ruinously expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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