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Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help


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9 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

You have to ask yourself why there are so many leaks with this administration.  Could it be that everyone who works for it is dissatisfied with the boss?

 

My current belief is that the evidence points towards the leaks being deliberate, at least in part.  I suspect that probable leakers are fed stories; one story per probable leaker, and when the stories make it to the press, the responsible party is fired.

 

It's also worth noting that the leaks have become less common and less accurate.  There was no warning whatsoever about Rex Tillerson being fired, for example.  There was a false alarm way back in November of 2017, but it's not like anyone had the inside scoop on it in March 2018, and Trump waited for Tillerson to get back from a trip abroad before the announcement, which means that the decision was made in advance and there would have been several days for it to leak.  It didn't.

 

You have to contextualize the Trump presidency the way I do for my views to make sense.  Washington D.C. is a world unto itself.  I have classmates who have jobs there.  They are intelligent, kind and thoughtful people and they do not live in the same world as you or I do.  Washington D.C. is what happens when you make a theme park that is totally divorced from that like in The Gods of the Copybook Headings "if you don't work you die."

Obviously, people in D.C. have jobs.  But they don't work.  Hustle would be a better verb.  The difference is that in D.C. the degree to which any enterprise is rewarded is a function of perceived righteousness rather than market value.  This is how they can have ridiculous things like the initiative to train moderate rebels in Syria that spends half a billion dollars and ends up training five dudes.  Could you imagine a recruiter for a hypothetical mega-PMC spending that sort of money and getting those sorts of results?  They would have to invent new kinds of torture for the fool.

 

D.C. is completely insulated from reality.  The only reason it interacts with reality as much as it does is because the majority of the people ho have jobs there are intelligent, kind and thoughtful.  But that only goes so far as they push themselves.  If some new, idiotic intellectual fad sweeps the District, it has no immediate feedback from external reality and thus no strong defense against trendy nonsense.

 

One idiotic intellectual fad that has swept the District is to hold blue-collar white males in absolute contempt.  The Democrats are more guilty of this, but the Republicans do it too, especially if they are Republicans who have spent significant time in the District.  Humans are naturally amicable creatures, so if you spend a lot of time with people their views will begin to color yours.  If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

 

That's basically your typical Beltway Republican; they really, really want to fit in with the cool kids.  The cool kids believe some kooky things, including that the Beltway Republicans' voting base is Satan.  The Beltway Republicans, for years, would simultaneously pander to the views of their voting base while simultaneously avoiding doing anything that would piss off their cool friends who have jobs in the District.  The Republican base was completely aware of this dynamic, by the way.  It's not like this was some big secret.  Rush Limbaugh would speak at length about it.  The Republican Party may have thought that they were tricking their voters, but their voters were only humoring them because they didn't see a better alternative.

 

And so it would go, year after year, the Republicans became a little more indoctrinated with whatever was the trendy ideological fad in the District, and the trendy beliefs of the District drifted ever apart from anything that makes goddamn physical sense.

 

And then Trump happened.

 

9 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

November will not go well for the Republicans.  Elections are won by who has the most motivated base.  The problem with Trump's strategy of constant tweets is that while it works in helping him keep control of the media cycle, it also keeps him in the media cycle constantly.  And the 50% of the country that hate this guy are reminded of why they hate him every...single....day.  And they are itching to do something about it.  The mid-term election is going to be a referendum on Trump, and it is not going to be pretty for Republicans.  The Republicans are lucky in that they don't have many Senate seats up for re-election this cycle and many house seats are gerrymandered to their advantage.  Still, they are going to lose seats.  Enough for the Democrats to take Congress?  Hard to say, but while this was considered impossible a few months ago, now pollsters are starting to talk about it as a possibility.  

 

If it were President Zodiac Killer or President Low Energy any of the other Republican candidates except Trump, I would agree with your assessment.  But Trump is different.  Very different.

Trump brings a completely different in-group out-group dynamic to politics.  In previous years it was simple; for Republican voters the Republican Party was the in-group, and the Democratic Party was the out-group.  This year is not like that.

 

For Trump supporters Team Trump is the in-group, and Everyone Else is the out-group.  "Everyone Else" includes most Republicans.  Establishment Republicans hate Trump and always have.  Team Trump hates Establishment Republicans and always has, but they are not above the idea of a temporary alliance until such time as they can all be shipped off to gulags.

 

US news media is squarely on the side of the District.  I think that should be obvious; US news media is extremely pro-establishment.  In previous years, the Republican Party would try to get on the good side of the District by compromise, so if a Republican president was taking a lot of heat from the media, that meant that their attempt to get the cheerleader in bed by being nice to her and opening doors for her and buying her flowers cajole the District by compromise was not working, and the Republican base would get disappointed and see their whole party as a joke and just not show up.

Trump doesn't want to compromise with the establishment.  He wants to burn the motherfucker to the ground.  If Trump is taking a lot of heat from the US news media his supporters see that as a good thing.  An authentically populist candidate should get lots of hate from the establishment.  Trump does get lots of hate.  To Trump supporters, the fact that there is so much hue and cry proves that everything is proceeding according to plan.

 

Trump supporters don't bite their nails about the mainstream media polls in 2018 showing that Trump has low approval ratings.  They don't care any more than they cared about the projections showing that Trump had only the slimmest chance of victory in 2016.  To them, 2016 shows that the people doing these polls are incompetent at best and enemy propaganda at worst.  If CNBC releases a new scientific study showing that Trump is the worst president since Hitler, Trump supporters will scoff at it the same way you or I would scoff at videos from ISIS.  Trump supporters simply do not get their information from the channels that are strongly anti-Trump.  

 

7 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

So how do you all spin Paul Ryan's decision to retire rather than subject himself to the potential embarrassment of losing reelection?  

 

If Trump were to somehow magically acquire dictatorial powers after the 2016 election, Paul Ryan would have been one of the first against the wall.  Paul Ryan hates Trump, was probably working to undermine him, and the contempt is completely returned.  It's like @Belesarius said; the real drama isn't Trump vs. the Democrats, it's Trump vs. the Republicans.  Paul Ryan retiring is most likely a victory for Team Trump.

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56 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

Oh...

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1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Past performance does not predict future results. In fact, the trend you describe was never consistent enough to even be called a trend in retrospect, and it was only remarkable in the first place because it was so unusual through most of our parents' lifetimes.

 

SmdrmEI.png

 

Look at that.

 

Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter never saw a red House OR Senate in their entire tenure. So it's really only the last five presidents who've seen this phenomenon, and with them it wasn't even consistent. Bush I never had a red House or Senate, and Reagan never had a red House. Bush II did eventually have both the House and Senate turn blue, but only in the last midterm. 


I don't think what we're seeing here is a consistent flip-flop pattern. I think we're seeing the reddening of the US Congress. 

 

I didn't say that control of congress flipped during the first Midterm of every President's first term, I said that the opposing party almost always gains ground during the first midterm of the first year.  Looking at your chart, what I said largely holds true of the House.  The only time a sitting President gained house seats in his first Mid-term election was George W.  The senate numbers see much less fluctuation, but that's probably due to the fact that only 1/3 of Senate seats are up for election ever two years.  

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8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I didn't say that control of congress flipped during the first Midterm of every President's first term, I said that the opposing party almost always gains ground during the first midterm of the first year.  Looking at your chart, what I said largely holds true of the House.  The only time a sitting President gained house seats in his first Mid-term election was George W.  The senate numbers see much less fluctuation, but that's probably due to the fact that only 1/3 of Senate seats are up for election ever two years.  

 

That isn't always true, though. In many cases the opposite happens. I don't think it's a pattern you should rely on.

 

What should worry Democrat voters is that the DNC leadership still does not have an accurate picture of the political landscape, and, worse, they are running out of money. Those seem to be contributing factors to a potential big loss in November for them.

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1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

 

My current belief is that the evidence points towards the leaks being deliberate, at least in part.  I suspect that probable leakers are fed stories; one story per probable leaker, and when the stories make it to the press, the responsible party is fired.

 

It's also worth noting that the leaks have become less common and less accurate.  There was no warning whatsoever about Rex Tillerson being fired, for example.  There was a false alarm way back in November of 2017, but it's not like anyone had the inside scoop on it in March 2018, and Trump waited for Tillerson to get back from a trip abroad before the announcement, which means that the decision was made in advance and there would have been several days for it to leak.  It didn't.

 

You have to contextualize the Trump presidency the way I do for my views to make sense.  Washington D.C. is a world unto itself.  I have classmates who have jobs there.  They are intelligent, kind and thoughtful people and they do not live in the same world as you or I do.  Washington D.C. is what happens when you make a theme park that is totally divorced from that like in The Gods of the Copybook Headings "if you don't work you die."

Obviously, people in D.C. have jobs.  But they don't work.  Hustle would be a better verb.  The difference is that in D.C. the degree to which any enterprise is rewarded is a function of perceived righteousness rather than market value.  This is how they can have ridiculous things like the initiative to train moderate rebels in Syria that spends half a billion dollars and ends up training five dudes.  Could you imagine a recruiter for a hypothetical mega-PMC spending that sort of money and getting those sorts of results?  They would have to invent new kinds of torture for the fool.

 

D.C. is completely insulated from reality.  The only reason it interacts with reality as much as it does is because the majority of the people ho have jobs there are intelligent, kind and thoughtful.  But that only goes so far as they push themselves.  If some new, idiotic intellectual fad sweeps the District, it has no immediate feedback from external reality and thus no strong defense against trendy nonsense.

 

One idiotic intellectual fad that has swept the District is to hold blue-collar white males in absolute contempt.  The Democrats are more guilty of this, but the Republicans do it too, especially if they are Republicans who have spent significant time in the District.  Humans are naturally amicable creatures, so if you spend a lot of time with people their views will begin to color yours.  If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

 

That's basically your typical Beltway Republican; they really, really want to fit in with the cool kids.  The cool kids believe some kooky things, including that the Beltway Republicans' voting base is Satan.  The Beltway Republicans, for years, would simultaneously pander to the views of their voting base while simultaneously avoiding doing anything that would piss off their cool friends who have jobs in the District.  The Republican base was completely aware of this dynamic, by the way.  It's not like this was some big secret.  Rush Limbaugh would speak at length about it.  The Republican Party may have thought that they were tricking their voters, but their voters were only humoring them because they didn't see a better alternative.

 

And so it would go, year after year, the Republicans became a little more indoctrinated with whatever was the trendy ideological fad in the District, and the trendy beliefs of the District drifted ever apart from anything that makes goddamn physical sense.

 

And then Trump happened.

 

 

If it were President Zodiac Killer or President Low Energy any of the other Republican candidates except Trump, I would agree with your assessment.  But Trump is different.  Very different.

Trump brings a completely different in-group out-group dynamic to politics.  In previous years it was simple; for Republican voters the Republican Party was the in-group, and the Democratic Party was the out-group.  This year is not like that.

 

For Trump supporters Team Trump is the in-group, and Everyone Else is the out-group.  "Everyone Else" includes most Republicans.  Establishment Republicans hate Trump and always have.  Team Trump hates Establishment Republicans and always has, but they are not above the idea of a temporary alliance until such time as they can all be shipped off to gulags.

 

US news media is squarely on the side of the District.  I think that should be obvious; US news media is extremely pro-establishment.  In previous years, the Republican Party would try to get on the good side of the District by compromise, so if a Republican president was taking a lot of heat from the media, that meant that their attempt to get the cheerleader in bed by being nice to her and opening doors for her and buying her flowers cajole the District by compromise was not working, and the Republican base would get disappointed and see their whole party as a joke and just not show up.

Trump doesn't want to compromise with the establishment.  He wants to burn the motherfucker to the ground.  If Trump is taking a lot of heat from the US news media his supporters see that as a good thing.  An authentically populist candidate should get lots of hate from the establishment.  Trump does get lots of hate.  To Trump supporters, the fact that there is so much hue and cry proves that everything is proceeding according to plan.

 

Trump supporters don't bite their nails about the mainstream media polls in 2018 showing that Trump has low approval ratings.  They don't care any more than they cared about the projections showing that Trump had only the slimmest chance of victory in 2016.  To them, 2016 shows that the people doing these polls are incompetent at best and enemy propaganda at worst.  If CNBC releases a new scientific study showing that Trump is the worst president since Hitler, Trump supporters will scoff at it the same way you or I would scoff at videos from ISIS.  Trump supporters simply do not get their information from the channels that are strongly anti-Trump.  

 

 

If Trump were to somehow magically acquire dictatorial powers after the 2016 election, Paul Ryan would have been one of the first against the wall.  Paul Ryan hates Trump, was probably working to undermine him, and the contempt is completely returned.  It's like @Belesarius said; the real drama isn't Trump vs. the Democrats, it's Trump vs. the Republicans.  Paul Ryan retiring is most likely a victory for Team Trump.

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

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1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

That isn't always true, though. In many cases the opposite happens. I don't think it's a pattern you should rely on.

 

What should worry Democrat voters is that the DNC leadership still does not have an accurate picture of the political landscape, and, worse, they are running out of money. Those seem to be contributing factors to a potential big loss in November for them.

 

Never let it be said that I doubt the incompetence of the Democratic party.  I just think they will pick up a good many seats in this upcoming election despite their own worst efforts.

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11 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Never let it be said that I doubt the incompetence of the Democratic party.  I just think they will pick up a good many seats in this upcoming election despite their own worst efforts.

 

I don't think the hate train has stopped in the station yet, but maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

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Just now, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

 

I don't know if you're seeing it.  In 2018 there are three ledgers, Democrat, Republican, and the Big League Party.  Big League Party and Republican share a column on the ballot, but that's camouflage.

 

The people that voted for Trump in 2016 are stoked as fuck right now.  The mainstream media polling doesn't reflect that, just as their analytics failed to reflect the greater-than-expected support for Trump in 2016.  This isn't like the Bush Administration at all; back then you could reasonably judge what Republicans were thinking by what was being broadcast on CNN, and come to some sort of informed projection on midterms.  Not no more.  You could probably tell what Republicans are thinking today by listening to CNN.  What you cannot predict is what Big League Party people are thinking by listening to CNN.

 

Big League Party voters might as well be made of dark matter.  They inhabit the same physical universe as you or I, but they seemingly don't interact.  They have completely independent and parallel sources of news media at this point.  People bitching about Fox News being right-wing agitprop?  They're fucking fifteen years behind the curve.  They might as well bitch about Dawson's Creek ending and David Beckham changing his hairstyle to that weird quasi-mullet thing.  There is now a fairly sizable field of populist-oriented right wing news media, almost entirely de-centralized and distributed via the internet.  For your average Big League Party voter Fox News isn't right wing enough.  But they like Tucker Carlson.  He's cool by them.

 

If you want to figure out what Big League Party people are feeling right now, you have to journey to the dark matter universe where they live.  You have to read Breitbart, you have to read populist Twitter, /pol/, r/Thedonald, stuff like that.

 

If the Republicans loose seats, but the Big League Party gains seats, the dark matter entities will be cackling with glee.  The Republicans are allies of convenience to them, and unreliable ones at that.  They could face significant setbacks on paper and still be in a much stronger position than they were in 2016.  If this happens, I guarantee you that the mainstream media will misinterpret it.

 

Even so, I'm not seeing this Blue Tide in 2018.  Politics isn't just about energy, it's about organizing that energy.  Effective movements are never spontaneous; they always have people massaging the public face of the movement, they always have allies in the legislature, they always have ways of getting money from donors to where it can provide effective pressure.  Until recently, the Democrats had all of those things.  The Democratic machine imploded and, remarkably, it remains imploded.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

2

 

Yeah, if Nancy does what she says she's going to do and push tax cut repeal as part of the 2018 agenda, and they keep using kids to attack human rights, yeah, people will turn out in droves.  

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2 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

Yeah, if Nancy does what she says she's going to do and push tax cut repeal as part of the 2018 agenda, and they keep using kids to attack human rights, yeah, people will turn out in droves.  

 

Right... People are not happy.

 

Really really unhappy, and honestly the key cornerstone to everything Democratic party right now is a demented and malicious peer pressure that the fucking Stasi would weep tears of pride seeing...

 

Only problem is in November when people go to vote they can drive their Prius with all the right bumper stickers to the polls, wait their turn to vote, shut the curtain as it's their turn up to bat, sigh and vote against the Democratic party which has went completely off the rails to the point where they have to FEAR losing jobs income opportunities friendships and even personal safety for stepping even a little out of line...

 

And then pretend to be Really shocked at the water cooler the next morning and completely perplexed at what could have possibly went wrong!

 

All the while mentally adding goo gone to their shopping lists and debating just how many weeks they should wait to put their Prius up for sale and just how soon exactly they can use the goo gone to scrape off the stupid fucking bumper stickers without looking like a defector... "No Bill, i did my part in November and I'm pissed too but Nancy wants us to spend more time outdoors so I gotta get rid of the Prius for something more capable and you've read consumer reports man! I can't afford to lose 20% on resale by leaving the stickers on!!!"

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3 hours ago, Donward said:

Caught my ear when skipping through the Pompeo confirmation hearing today.

 

 

 

IIRC less than 5 killed Russian citizens were confirmed, and about 30 Syrians, both were part of ISIS Hunters. 

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9 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

Right... People are not happy.

 

Really really unhappy, and honestly the key cornerstone to everything Democratic party right now is a demented and malicious peer pressure that the fucking Stasi would weep tears of pride seeing...

 

Only problem is in November when people go to vote they can drive their Prius with all the right bumper stickers to the polls, wait their turn to vote, shut the curtain as it's their turn up to bat, sigh and vote against the Democratic party which has went completely off the rails to the point where they have to FEAR losing jobs income opportunities friendships and even personal safety for stepping even a little out of line...

 

And then pretend to be Really shocked at the water cooler the next morning and completely perplexed at what could have possibly went wrong!

 

All the while mentally adding goo gone to their shopping lists and debating just how many weeks they should wait to put their Prius up for sale and just how soon exactly they can use the goo gone to scrape off the stupid fucking bumper stickers without looking like a defector... "No Bill, i did my part in November and I'm pissed too but Nancy wants us to spend more time outdoors so I gotta get rid of the Prius for something more capable and you've read consumer reports man! I can't afford to lose 20% on resale by leaving the stickers on!!!"

 

This is just stereotyping and nonsense.

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

This is just stereotyping and nonsense.

 

 

Oh is it now?

 

Or do I actually have personal experience with a shocking percentage of my Democrat friends and family members coming to me and saying these things and very quietly switching sides while still keeping the same outward public allegiance?

 

I've helped more recovering Democrats into the shooting sports, self defense, preparedness, and self reliance worlds in the last 6 years than I ever in my wildest dreams thought I would.

 

And they all tell this story to one degree or another Walt....

 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

 

Ask anyone without radical Democratic leanings how safe it is to publicly state you disagree with the Democrats stance on gun control or any number of other things in public in Portland Oregon.

 

Hint: It can literally get you hurt doing so on trimet.

 

No Walt, you don't get to wave off what I'm saying because you don't like it and it makes your team look like the vindictive, coercive, freedom hating fucking pieces of shit so many of them are and the rest of you tacitly approve of and support by not slapping them down for being that way!!!

 

The Republicans on the other hand DO internally police themselves and do not tolerate the kind of insane over the top bullshit from within (aka we dropped the militia movement and the clinic bombers like a bad habit and even helped take them down while y'all make mealy mouthed excuses for fucking ANTIFAggots as well as the incessant but this is different because it's my team doing it rationalization parties!)

 

If you don't like the mirror I'm holding up to the cause you believe in and are a part of maybe you should, oh I don't know, start fighting to change it so that you can be proud of what you see staring back at you when someone holds up a mirror...

 

Rather than going full on flat earther and claiming that somehow what I'm showing you doesn't exist or is a trick because you don't like what you see

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yep. The whole thing is a shitshow. Between the lack of anything substantive in Comey's book, the Keystone cop raid on Trump's lawyer, and this, I wouldn't be surprised if this sham of an investigation isn't called off before the mid-terms.

 

...

 

And again,  how's that Russian collusion in getting Trump elected playing out on the foreign policy scene?

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1 hour ago, roguetechie said:

 

 

Oh is it now?

 

Or do I actually have personal experience with a shocking percentage of my Democrat friends and family members coming to me and saying these things and very quietly switching sides while still keeping the same outward public allegiance?

 

I've helped more recovering Democrats into the shooting sports, self defense, preparedness, and self reliance worlds in the last 6 years than I ever in my wildest dreams thought I would.

 

And they all tell this story to one degree or another Walt....

 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

 

Ask anyone without radical Democratic leanings how safe it is to publicly state you disagree with the Democrats stance on gun control or any number of other things in public in Portland Oregon.

 

Hint: It can literally get you hurt doing so on trimet.

 

No Walt, you don't get to wave off what I'm saying because you don't like it and it makes your team look like the vindictive, coercive, freedom hating fucking pieces of shit so many of them are and the rest of you tacitly approve of and support by not slapping them down for being that way!!!

 

The Republicans on the other hand DO internally police themselves and do not tolerate the kind of insane over the top bullshit from within (aka we dropped the militia movement and the clinic bombers like a bad habit and even helped take them down while y'all make mealy mouthed excuses for fucking ANTIFAggots as well as the incessant but this is different because it's my team doing it rationalization parties!)

 

If you don't like the mirror I'm holding up to the cause you believe in and are a part of maybe you should, oh I don't know, start fighting to change it so that you can be proud of what you see staring back at you when someone holds up a mirror...

 

Rather than going full on flat earther and claiming that somehow what I'm showing you doesn't exist or is a trick because you don't like what you see

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Portland?  Well now, that's your problem right there.  Come join us in Grand Rapids MI.  I promise it's quite a bit more representative of the US as a whole than Portlandia.

 

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Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

1

Nothing funny about it is funny, we get to see first hand just how bad lefties fuck up everything they touch. In California, they have total control and no one to blame, but themselves and their unrealistic, idiotic policies, for everything.

 

Lucky you get to live in a place the left hasn't destroyed. Unless you look at the rest of the state with a critical eye.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

 

I'm from Southern Maryland, which is an area filled with people who legit wish for a Second Confederacy, so I feel I buck that trend.

Frankly, I grew up in a right-wing household and have always identified with them.

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