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Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

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9 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

You have to ask yourself why there are so many leaks with this administration.  Could it be that everyone who works for it is dissatisfied with the boss?

 

My current belief is that the evidence points towards the leaks being deliberate, at least in part.  I suspect that probable leakers are fed stories; one story per probable leaker, and when the stories make it to the press, the responsible party is fired.

 

It's also worth noting that the leaks have become less common and less accurate.  There was no warning whatsoever about Rex Tillerson being fired, for example.  There was a false alarm way back in November of 2017, but it's not like anyone had the inside scoop on it in March 2018, and Trump waited for Tillerson to get back from a trip abroad before the announcement, which means that the decision was made in advance and there would have been several days for it to leak.  It didn't.

 

You have to contextualize the Trump presidency the way I do for my views to make sense.  Washington D.C. is a world unto itself.  I have classmates who have jobs there.  They are intelligent, kind and thoughtful people and they do not live in the same world as you or I do.  Washington D.C. is what happens when you make a theme park that is totally divorced from that like in The Gods of the Copybook Headings "if you don't work you die."

Obviously, people in D.C. have jobs.  But they don't work.  Hustle would be a better verb.  The difference is that in D.C. the degree to which any enterprise is rewarded is a function of perceived righteousness rather than market value.  This is how they can have ridiculous things like the initiative to train moderate rebels in Syria that spends half a billion dollars and ends up training five dudes.  Could you imagine a recruiter for a hypothetical mega-PMC spending that sort of money and getting those sorts of results?  They would have to invent new kinds of torture for the fool.

 

D.C. is completely insulated from reality.  The only reason it interacts with reality as much as it does is because the majority of the people ho have jobs there are intelligent, kind and thoughtful.  But that only goes so far as they push themselves.  If some new, idiotic intellectual fad sweeps the District, it has no immediate feedback from external reality and thus no strong defense against trendy nonsense.

 

One idiotic intellectual fad that has swept the District is to hold blue-collar white males in absolute contempt.  The Democrats are more guilty of this, but the Republicans do it too, especially if they are Republicans who have spent significant time in the District.  Humans are naturally amicable creatures, so if you spend a lot of time with people their views will begin to color yours.  If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

 

That's basically your typical Beltway Republican; they really, really want to fit in with the cool kids.  The cool kids believe some kooky things, including that the Beltway Republicans' voting base is Satan.  The Beltway Republicans, for years, would simultaneously pander to the views of their voting base while simultaneously avoiding doing anything that would piss off their cool friends who have jobs in the District.  The Republican base was completely aware of this dynamic, by the way.  It's not like this was some big secret.  Rush Limbaugh would speak at length about it.  The Republican Party may have thought that they were tricking their voters, but their voters were only humoring them because they didn't see a better alternative.

 

And so it would go, year after year, the Republicans became a little more indoctrinated with whatever was the trendy ideological fad in the District, and the trendy beliefs of the District drifted ever apart from anything that makes goddamn physical sense.

 

And then Trump happened.

 

9 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

November will not go well for the Republicans.  Elections are won by who has the most motivated base.  The problem with Trump's strategy of constant tweets is that while it works in helping him keep control of the media cycle, it also keeps him in the media cycle constantly.  And the 50% of the country that hate this guy are reminded of why they hate him every...single....day.  And they are itching to do something about it.  The mid-term election is going to be a referendum on Trump, and it is not going to be pretty for Republicans.  The Republicans are lucky in that they don't have many Senate seats up for re-election this cycle and many house seats are gerrymandered to their advantage.  Still, they are going to lose seats.  Enough for the Democrats to take Congress?  Hard to say, but while this was considered impossible a few months ago, now pollsters are starting to talk about it as a possibility.  

 

If it were President Zodiac Killer or President Low Energy any of the other Republican candidates except Trump, I would agree with your assessment.  But Trump is different.  Very different.

Trump brings a completely different in-group out-group dynamic to politics.  In previous years it was simple; for Republican voters the Republican Party was the in-group, and the Democratic Party was the out-group.  This year is not like that.

 

For Trump supporters Team Trump is the in-group, and Everyone Else is the out-group.  "Everyone Else" includes most Republicans.  Establishment Republicans hate Trump and always have.  Team Trump hates Establishment Republicans and always has, but they are not above the idea of a temporary alliance until such time as they can all be shipped off to gulags.

 

US news media is squarely on the side of the District.  I think that should be obvious; US news media is extremely pro-establishment.  In previous years, the Republican Party would try to get on the good side of the District by compromise, so if a Republican president was taking a lot of heat from the media, that meant that their attempt to get the cheerleader in bed by being nice to her and opening doors for her and buying her flowers cajole the District by compromise was not working, and the Republican base would get disappointed and see their whole party as a joke and just not show up.

Trump doesn't want to compromise with the establishment.  He wants to burn the motherfucker to the ground.  If Trump is taking a lot of heat from the US news media his supporters see that as a good thing.  An authentically populist candidate should get lots of hate from the establishment.  Trump does get lots of hate.  To Trump supporters, the fact that there is so much hue and cry proves that everything is proceeding according to plan.

 

Trump supporters don't bite their nails about the mainstream media polls in 2018 showing that Trump has low approval ratings.  They don't care any more than they cared about the projections showing that Trump had only the slimmest chance of victory in 2016.  To them, 2016 shows that the people doing these polls are incompetent at best and enemy propaganda at worst.  If CNBC releases a new scientific study showing that Trump is the worst president since Hitler, Trump supporters will scoff at it the same way you or I would scoff at videos from ISIS.  Trump supporters simply do not get their information from the channels that are strongly anti-Trump.  

 

7 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

So how do you all spin Paul Ryan's decision to retire rather than subject himself to the potential embarrassment of losing reelection?  

 

If Trump were to somehow magically acquire dictatorial powers after the 2016 election, Paul Ryan would have been one of the first against the wall.  Paul Ryan hates Trump, was probably working to undermine him, and the contempt is completely returned.  It's like @Belesarius said; the real drama isn't Trump vs. the Democrats, it's Trump vs. the Republicans.  Paul Ryan retiring is most likely a victory for Team Trump.

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56 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

Oh...

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1 hour ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Past performance does not predict future results. In fact, the trend you describe was never consistent enough to even be called a trend in retrospect, and it was only remarkable in the first place because it was so unusual through most of our parents' lifetimes.

 

SmdrmEI.png

 

Look at that.

 

Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter never saw a red House OR Senate in their entire tenure. So it's really only the last five presidents who've seen this phenomenon, and with them it wasn't even consistent. Bush I never had a red House or Senate, and Reagan never had a red House. Bush II did eventually have both the House and Senate turn blue, but only in the last midterm. 


I don't think what we're seeing here is a consistent flip-flop pattern. I think we're seeing the reddening of the US Congress. 

 

I didn't say that control of congress flipped during the first Midterm of every President's first term, I said that the opposing party almost always gains ground during the first midterm of the first year.  Looking at your chart, what I said largely holds true of the House.  The only time a sitting President gained house seats in his first Mid-term election was George W.  The senate numbers see much less fluctuation, but that's probably due to the fact that only 1/3 of Senate seats are up for election ever two years.  

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8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I didn't say that control of congress flipped during the first Midterm of every President's first term, I said that the opposing party almost always gains ground during the first midterm of the first year.  Looking at your chart, what I said largely holds true of the House.  The only time a sitting President gained house seats in his first Mid-term election was George W.  The senate numbers see much less fluctuation, but that's probably due to the fact that only 1/3 of Senate seats are up for election ever two years.  

 

That isn't always true, though. In many cases the opposite happens. I don't think it's a pattern you should rely on.

 

What should worry Democrat voters is that the DNC leadership still does not have an accurate picture of the political landscape, and, worse, they are running out of money. Those seem to be contributing factors to a potential big loss in November for them.

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1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

 

My current belief is that the evidence points towards the leaks being deliberate, at least in part.  I suspect that probable leakers are fed stories; one story per probable leaker, and when the stories make it to the press, the responsible party is fired.

 

It's also worth noting that the leaks have become less common and less accurate.  There was no warning whatsoever about Rex Tillerson being fired, for example.  There was a false alarm way back in November of 2017, but it's not like anyone had the inside scoop on it in March 2018, and Trump waited for Tillerson to get back from a trip abroad before the announcement, which means that the decision was made in advance and there would have been several days for it to leak.  It didn't.

 

You have to contextualize the Trump presidency the way I do for my views to make sense.  Washington D.C. is a world unto itself.  I have classmates who have jobs there.  They are intelligent, kind and thoughtful people and they do not live in the same world as you or I do.  Washington D.C. is what happens when you make a theme park that is totally divorced from that like in The Gods of the Copybook Headings "if you don't work you die."

Obviously, people in D.C. have jobs.  But they don't work.  Hustle would be a better verb.  The difference is that in D.C. the degree to which any enterprise is rewarded is a function of perceived righteousness rather than market value.  This is how they can have ridiculous things like the initiative to train moderate rebels in Syria that spends half a billion dollars and ends up training five dudes.  Could you imagine a recruiter for a hypothetical mega-PMC spending that sort of money and getting those sorts of results?  They would have to invent new kinds of torture for the fool.

 

D.C. is completely insulated from reality.  The only reason it interacts with reality as much as it does is because the majority of the people ho have jobs there are intelligent, kind and thoughtful.  But that only goes so far as they push themselves.  If some new, idiotic intellectual fad sweeps the District, it has no immediate feedback from external reality and thus no strong defense against trendy nonsense.

 

One idiotic intellectual fad that has swept the District is to hold blue-collar white males in absolute contempt.  The Democrats are more guilty of this, but the Republicans do it too, especially if they are Republicans who have spent significant time in the District.  Humans are naturally amicable creatures, so if you spend a lot of time with people their views will begin to color yours.  If you spend a lot of time with an insane death cult, you can quite easily end up as a perfectly sane, easy-going individual who will casually slip up and go on tangents about the necessity of blood sacrifice to Moloch in casual conversation. 

 

That's basically your typical Beltway Republican; they really, really want to fit in with the cool kids.  The cool kids believe some kooky things, including that the Beltway Republicans' voting base is Satan.  The Beltway Republicans, for years, would simultaneously pander to the views of their voting base while simultaneously avoiding doing anything that would piss off their cool friends who have jobs in the District.  The Republican base was completely aware of this dynamic, by the way.  It's not like this was some big secret.  Rush Limbaugh would speak at length about it.  The Republican Party may have thought that they were tricking their voters, but their voters were only humoring them because they didn't see a better alternative.

 

And so it would go, year after year, the Republicans became a little more indoctrinated with whatever was the trendy ideological fad in the District, and the trendy beliefs of the District drifted ever apart from anything that makes goddamn physical sense.

 

And then Trump happened.

 

 

If it were President Zodiac Killer or President Low Energy any of the other Republican candidates except Trump, I would agree with your assessment.  But Trump is different.  Very different.

Trump brings a completely different in-group out-group dynamic to politics.  In previous years it was simple; for Republican voters the Republican Party was the in-group, and the Democratic Party was the out-group.  This year is not like that.

 

For Trump supporters Team Trump is the in-group, and Everyone Else is the out-group.  "Everyone Else" includes most Republicans.  Establishment Republicans hate Trump and always have.  Team Trump hates Establishment Republicans and always has, but they are not above the idea of a temporary alliance until such time as they can all be shipped off to gulags.

 

US news media is squarely on the side of the District.  I think that should be obvious; US news media is extremely pro-establishment.  In previous years, the Republican Party would try to get on the good side of the District by compromise, so if a Republican president was taking a lot of heat from the media, that meant that their attempt to get the cheerleader in bed by being nice to her and opening doors for her and buying her flowers cajole the District by compromise was not working, and the Republican base would get disappointed and see their whole party as a joke and just not show up.

Trump doesn't want to compromise with the establishment.  He wants to burn the motherfucker to the ground.  If Trump is taking a lot of heat from the US news media his supporters see that as a good thing.  An authentically populist candidate should get lots of hate from the establishment.  Trump does get lots of hate.  To Trump supporters, the fact that there is so much hue and cry proves that everything is proceeding according to plan.

 

Trump supporters don't bite their nails about the mainstream media polls in 2018 showing that Trump has low approval ratings.  They don't care any more than they cared about the projections showing that Trump had only the slimmest chance of victory in 2016.  To them, 2016 shows that the people doing these polls are incompetent at best and enemy propaganda at worst.  If CNBC releases a new scientific study showing that Trump is the worst president since Hitler, Trump supporters will scoff at it the same way you or I would scoff at videos from ISIS.  Trump supporters simply do not get their information from the channels that are strongly anti-Trump.  

 

 

If Trump were to somehow magically acquire dictatorial powers after the 2016 election, Paul Ryan would have been one of the first against the wall.  Paul Ryan hates Trump, was probably working to undermine him, and the contempt is completely returned.  It's like @Belesarius said; the real drama isn't Trump vs. the Democrats, it's Trump vs. the Republicans.  Paul Ryan retiring is most likely a victory for Team Trump.

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

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1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

That isn't always true, though. In many cases the opposite happens. I don't think it's a pattern you should rely on.

 

What should worry Democrat voters is that the DNC leadership still does not have an accurate picture of the political landscape, and, worse, they are running out of money. Those seem to be contributing factors to a potential big loss in November for them.

 

Never let it be said that I doubt the incompetence of the Democratic party.  I just think they will pick up a good many seats in this upcoming election despite their own worst efforts.

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11 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Never let it be said that I doubt the incompetence of the Democratic party.  I just think they will pick up a good many seats in this upcoming election despite their own worst efforts.

 

I don't think the hate train has stopped in the station yet, but maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

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Just now, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

 

I don't know if you're seeing it.  In 2018 there are three ledgers, Democrat, Republican, and the Big League Party.  Big League Party and Republican share a column on the ballot, but that's camouflage.

 

The people that voted for Trump in 2016 are stoked as fuck right now.  The mainstream media polling doesn't reflect that, just as their analytics failed to reflect the greater-than-expected support for Trump in 2016.  This isn't like the Bush Administration at all; back then you could reasonably judge what Republicans were thinking by what was being broadcast on CNN, and come to some sort of informed projection on midterms.  Not no more.  You could probably tell what Republicans are thinking today by listening to CNN.  What you cannot predict is what Big League Party people are thinking by listening to CNN.

 

Big League Party voters might as well be made of dark matter.  They inhabit the same physical universe as you or I, but they seemingly don't interact.  They have completely independent and parallel sources of news media at this point.  People bitching about Fox News being right-wing agitprop?  They're fucking fifteen years behind the curve.  They might as well bitch about Dawson's Creek ending and David Beckham changing his hairstyle to that weird quasi-mullet thing.  There is now a fairly sizable field of populist-oriented right wing news media, almost entirely de-centralized and distributed via the internet.  For your average Big League Party voter Fox News isn't right wing enough.  But they like Tucker Carlson.  He's cool by them.

 

If you want to figure out what Big League Party people are feeling right now, you have to journey to the dark matter universe where they live.  You have to read Breitbart, you have to read populist Twitter, /pol/, r/Thedonald, stuff like that.

 

If the Republicans loose seats, but the Big League Party gains seats, the dark matter entities will be cackling with glee.  The Republicans are allies of convenience to them, and unreliable ones at that.  They could face significant setbacks on paper and still be in a much stronger position than they were in 2016.  If this happens, I guarantee you that the mainstream media will misinterpret it.

 

Even so, I'm not seeing this Blue Tide in 2018.  Politics isn't just about energy, it's about organizing that energy.  Effective movements are never spontaneous; they always have people massaging the public face of the movement, they always have allies in the legislature, they always have ways of getting money from donors to where it can provide effective pressure.  Until recently, the Democrats had all of those things.  The Democratic machine imploded and, remarkably, it remains imploded.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Let me put it this way.  Trump will not be on the ticket in November.  Will the people that voted for him in 2016 care enough to go to the polls and vote for their local republican?  Especially if the Republican party is at odds with their own President?  Democratic voters however will be looking at this mid-term as their first opportunity to punish the Republican party for being the party of Trump.  See what I'm saying?  I think Democratic voters are going to be much more motivated to actually go to the polls.

 

2

 

Yeah, if Nancy does what she says she's going to do and push tax cut repeal as part of the 2018 agenda, and they keep using kids to attack human rights, yeah, people will turn out in droves.  

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4 hours ago, LostCosmonaut said:

Something people on both sides of the aisle can laugh at;

 

EDYbXn1.jpg

 

 

Libertarians are so adorable when they pretend like their beliefs mirror the ideal of the American Republic. 

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2 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

Yeah, if Nancy does what she says she's going to do and push tax cut repeal as part of the 2018 agenda, and they keep using kids to attack human rights, yeah, people will turn out in droves.  

 

Right... People are not happy.

 

Really really unhappy, and honestly the key cornerstone to everything Democratic party right now is a demented and malicious peer pressure that the fucking Stasi would weep tears of pride seeing...

 

Only problem is in November when people go to vote they can drive their Prius with all the right bumper stickers to the polls, wait their turn to vote, shut the curtain as it's their turn up to bat, sigh and vote against the Democratic party which has went completely off the rails to the point where they have to FEAR losing jobs income opportunities friendships and even personal safety for stepping even a little out of line...

 

And then pretend to be Really shocked at the water cooler the next morning and completely perplexed at what could have possibly went wrong!

 

All the while mentally adding goo gone to their shopping lists and debating just how many weeks they should wait to put their Prius up for sale and just how soon exactly they can use the goo gone to scrape off the stupid fucking bumper stickers without looking like a defector... "No Bill, i did my part in November and I'm pissed too but Nancy wants us to spend more time outdoors so I gotta get rid of the Prius for something more capable and you've read consumer reports man! I can't afford to lose 20% on resale by leaving the stickers on!!!"

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3 hours ago, Donward said:

Caught my ear when skipping through the Pompeo confirmation hearing today.

 

 

 

IIRC less than 5 killed Russian citizens were confirmed, and about 30 Syrians, both were part of ISIS Hunters. 

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9 hours ago, roguetechie said:

 

Right... People are not happy.

 

Really really unhappy, and honestly the key cornerstone to everything Democratic party right now is a demented and malicious peer pressure that the fucking Stasi would weep tears of pride seeing...

 

Only problem is in November when people go to vote they can drive their Prius with all the right bumper stickers to the polls, wait their turn to vote, shut the curtain as it's their turn up to bat, sigh and vote against the Democratic party which has went completely off the rails to the point where they have to FEAR losing jobs income opportunities friendships and even personal safety for stepping even a little out of line...

 

And then pretend to be Really shocked at the water cooler the next morning and completely perplexed at what could have possibly went wrong!

 

All the while mentally adding goo gone to their shopping lists and debating just how many weeks they should wait to put their Prius up for sale and just how soon exactly they can use the goo gone to scrape off the stupid fucking bumper stickers without looking like a defector... "No Bill, i did my part in November and I'm pissed too but Nancy wants us to spend more time outdoors so I gotta get rid of the Prius for something more capable and you've read consumer reports man! I can't afford to lose 20% on resale by leaving the stickers on!!!"

 

This is just stereotyping and nonsense.

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

This is just stereotyping and nonsense.

 

 

Oh is it now?

 

Or do I actually have personal experience with a shocking percentage of my Democrat friends and family members coming to me and saying these things and very quietly switching sides while still keeping the same outward public allegiance?

 

I've helped more recovering Democrats into the shooting sports, self defense, preparedness, and self reliance worlds in the last 6 years than I ever in my wildest dreams thought I would.

 

And they all tell this story to one degree or another Walt....

 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

 

Ask anyone without radical Democratic leanings how safe it is to publicly state you disagree with the Democrats stance on gun control or any number of other things in public in Portland Oregon.

 

Hint: It can literally get you hurt doing so on trimet.

 

No Walt, you don't get to wave off what I'm saying because you don't like it and it makes your team look like the vindictive, coercive, freedom hating fucking pieces of shit so many of them are and the rest of you tacitly approve of and support by not slapping them down for being that way!!!

 

The Republicans on the other hand DO internally police themselves and do not tolerate the kind of insane over the top bullshit from within (aka we dropped the militia movement and the clinic bombers like a bad habit and even helped take them down while y'all make mealy mouthed excuses for fucking ANTIFAggots as well as the incessant but this is different because it's my team doing it rationalization parties!)

 

If you don't like the mirror I'm holding up to the cause you believe in and are a part of maybe you should, oh I don't know, start fighting to change it so that you can be proud of what you see staring back at you when someone holds up a mirror...

 

Rather than going full on flat earther and claiming that somehow what I'm showing you doesn't exist or is a trick because you don't like what you see

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yep. The whole thing is a shitshow. Between the lack of anything substantive in Comey's book, the Keystone cop raid on Trump's lawyer, and this, I wouldn't be surprised if this sham of an investigation isn't called off before the mid-terms.

 

...

 

And again,  how's that Russian collusion in getting Trump elected playing out on the foreign policy scene?

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1 hour ago, roguetechie said:

 

 

Oh is it now?

 

Or do I actually have personal experience with a shocking percentage of my Democrat friends and family members coming to me and saying these things and very quietly switching sides while still keeping the same outward public allegiance?

 

I've helped more recovering Democrats into the shooting sports, self defense, preparedness, and self reliance worlds in the last 6 years than I ever in my wildest dreams thought I would.

 

And they all tell this story to one degree or another Walt....

 

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it didn't happen. 

 

Ask anyone without radical Democratic leanings how safe it is to publicly state you disagree with the Democrats stance on gun control or any number of other things in public in Portland Oregon.

 

Hint: It can literally get you hurt doing so on trimet.

 

No Walt, you don't get to wave off what I'm saying because you don't like it and it makes your team look like the vindictive, coercive, freedom hating fucking pieces of shit so many of them are and the rest of you tacitly approve of and support by not slapping them down for being that way!!!

 

The Republicans on the other hand DO internally police themselves and do not tolerate the kind of insane over the top bullshit from within (aka we dropped the militia movement and the clinic bombers like a bad habit and even helped take them down while y'all make mealy mouthed excuses for fucking ANTIFAggots as well as the incessant but this is different because it's my team doing it rationalization parties!)

 

If you don't like the mirror I'm holding up to the cause you believe in and are a part of maybe you should, oh I don't know, start fighting to change it so that you can be proud of what you see staring back at you when someone holds up a mirror...

 

Rather than going full on flat earther and claiming that somehow what I'm showing you doesn't exist or is a trick because you don't like what you see

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Portland?  Well now, that's your problem right there.  Come join us in Grand Rapids MI.  I promise it's quite a bit more representative of the US as a whole than Portlandia.

 

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Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

1

Nothing funny about it is funny, we get to see first hand just how bad lefties fuck up everything they touch. In California, they have total control and no one to blame, but themselves and their unrealistic, idiotic policies, for everything.

 

Lucky you get to live in a place the left hasn't destroyed. Unless you look at the rest of the state with a critical eye.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Now that I think about it, it's kind of funny that the staunchest Trump supporters on this forum, Doward, Roguetechie and Jeeps live in the liberal bastions of Seattle, Portland and California, while the strongest Trump denouncer (me) lives in the very conservative locale of Kent County Michigan.  Perhaps we all just like being contrarians in our local environment?  Just a thought.

 

 

Edit: Also, I have no idea what sort of environment is responsible for Colli.  It must be a strange place indeed.  

 

I'm from Southern Maryland, which is an area filled with people who legit wish for a Second Confederacy, so I feel I buck that trend.

Frankly, I grew up in a right-wing household and have always identified with them.

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4 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

I'm from Southern Maryland, which is an area filled with people who legit wish for a Second Confederacy, so I feel I buck that trend.

Frankly, I grew up in a right-wing household and have always identified with them.

 

Every statistical norm needs a deviation.

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  • Similar Content

    • By Tied
      Yes
       
      i personally support it, by finding the KGB Felix Dzerzhinsky greatly improved state scurrility both inside the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and abroad (their jurisdiction was only domestic, but they kept the internationally influential people safe at night)   a dedicated defender of both the Revolution and all the Soviet peoples     what do you think of this news?
    • By Xoon
      Colonization Of The Solar System

       
      This thread is for discussing the colonization of the solar system, mainly focusing on Mars and the Moon since they are the most relevant. 
      Main topics include transportation, industry, agriculture, economics, civil engineering,  energy production and distribution, habitation, ethics and politics. 
       
       
       
       
      First order of business, our glories tech messiah Elon Musk has set his eyes on Mars:
      Reason stated? Because being a interplanetary species beats being a single planetary species. 
       
      How does he plan to do this?
      By sending two cargo ships by 2022 to Mars for surveying and building  basic infrastructure, then two years later in 2024 sending 4 ships, two cargo ships and two crewed ships to start the colonization. First thing would be to build fuel refineries and expanding infrastructure to support more ships, then starting to mine and build industry. 
       
      This could mark a new era in human history, a second colonization era, this time without the genocides. The economic potentials are incredible, a single asteroid could easily support the entire earths gold, silver and platinum production for a decade. The moon holds a lot of valuable Helium 3, which right now is worth 12 000 dollars per kilogram! Helium is a excellent material for nuclear reactors. 
       
       
       

       
       
      Speaking about the moon, several companies have set their eyes on the moon, and for good reason.
      In my opinion,  the moon has the possibility of becoming a mayor trade hub for the solar system.  Why is this? Simply put, the earth has a few pesky things called gravity, atmosphere and environmentalists. This makes launching rockets off the moon much cheaper. The moon could even have a space elevator with current technology!  If we consider Elon Musk's plan to travel to Mars, then the Moon should be able to supply cheaper fuel and spaceship parts to space, to then be sent to Mars. The Moon is also rich in minerals that have not sunk to the core yet, and also has a huge amount of rare earth metals, which demands are rapidly increasing. Simply put, the Moon would end up as a large exporter to both the earth and potentially Mars. Importing from earth would almost always be more expensive compared to a industrialized Moon. 
       
      Now how would we go about colonizing the moon? Honestly, in concept it is quite simple.When considering locations, the South pole seems like the best candidate. This is because of it's constant sun spots, which could give 24 hour solar power to the colony and give constant sunlight to plants without huge power usage. The south pole also contain dark spots which contains large amount of frozen water, which would be used to sustain the agriculture and to make rocket fuel. It is true that the equator has the largest amounts of Helium 3 and the best location for rocket launches. However, with the lack of constant sunlight and frequent solar winds and meteor impacts, makes to unsuited for initial colonization. If the SpaceX's BFR successes, then it would be the main means of transporting materials to the moon until infrastructure is properly developed. Later a heavy lifter would replace it when transporting goods to and from the lunar surface, and specialized cargo ship for trans portion between the Moon, Earth and Mars. A space elevator would reduce prices further in the future.  Most likely, a trade station would be set up in CIS lunar space and Earth orbit which would house large fuel tanks and be able to hold the cargo from  cargo ships and heavy lifters. Sun ports would be designated depending on their amount of sunlight. Year around sunlight spots would be dedicated to solar panels and agriculture. Varying sun spots would be used for storage, landing pads and in general everything. Dark spots would be designated to mining to extract its valuable water. Power production would be inistially almost purely solar, with some back up and smoothing out generators. Later nuclear reactors would take over, but serve as a secondary backup energy source. 
       
       
      The plan:
      If we can assume the BFR is a success, then we have roughly 150 ton of payload to work with per spaceship. The first spaceship would contain a satellite to survey colonization spot. Everything would be robotic at first. Several robots capable of building a LZ for future ships,  mining of the lunar surface for making solar panels for energy production, then mining and refinement for fuel for future expeditions. The lunar colony would be based underground, room and pillar mining would be used to cheaply create room that is also shielded from radiation and surface hazards. Copying the mighty tech priest, a second ship would come with people and more equipment. With this more large scale mining and ore refinement would be started. Eventually beginning to manufacturing their own goods. Routinely BFRs would supply the colony with special equipment like electronics, special minerals and advanced equipment and food until the agricultural sector can support the colony.  The colony would start to export Helium 3 and rocket fuel, as well as spacecraft parts and scientific materials. Eventually becoming self sustaining, it would stop importing food and equipment, manufacturing it all themselves to save costs. 
       
      I am not the best in agriculture, so if some knowledge people could teach us here about closed loop farming, or some way of cultivating the lunar soil. Feel free to do so.
       
       
      Mining:
      I found a article here about the composition of the lunar soil and the use for it's main components:

      In short, the moon has large amounts of oxygen, silicon, aluminum, calcium, iron, magnesium and titanium in it's soil.
      How do we refine them? By doing this.
       
      Aluminum could be used for most kinds of wiring to requiring high conductivity to density ratio. Meaning power lines, building cables and such. Aluminum is not very suited for building structures on the surface because of the varying temperatures causing it to expand and contract. Iron or steel is better suited here. Aluminum could however be used in underground structures where temperatures are more stable.  Aluminum would also most likely end up as the main lunar rocket fuel. Yes, aluminum as rocket fuel. Just look at things like ALICE, or Aluminum-oxygen. Aluminum-oxygen would probably win out since ALICE uses water, which would be prioritized for the BFRs, since I am pretty sure they are not multi-fuel. 
       More on aluminum rocket fuel here:
      https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/88130-aluminum-as-rocket-fuel/&
      http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/realdesigns2.php#umlunar
      https://blogs.nasa.gov/Rocketology/2016/04/15/weve-got-rocket-chemistry-part-1/
      https://blogs.nasa.gov/Rocketology/2016/04/21/weve-got-rocket-chemistry-part-2/
       
      Believe it or not, but calcium is actually a excellent conductor, about 12% better than copper. So why do we not use it on earth? Because it has a tendency to spontaneously combust in the atmosphere. In a vacuum however, this does not pose a problem. I does however need to be coated in a material so it does not deteriorate. This makes it suited for "outdoor" products and compact electrical systems like electric motors. Yes, a calcium electric motor.  
       
       
      Lastly, a few articles about colonizing the moon:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_Moon
      https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-scientists-say-we-could-colonise-the-moon-by-2022-for-just-10-billion
      https://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/HEP_Lunar.html
       
      NASA article about production of solar panels on the moon:
      https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20050110155.pdf
       
      Map over the south pole:
      http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/images/gigapan
       
       
      Feel free to spam the thread with news regarding colonization. 
       
       
    • By Khand-e
      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35333647
       
      Like I said a couple days ago actually, I said I thought it was very likely that Ma Ying-Jeou would lose the next election as he and his administration are very unpopular, and I guess it turned out to be true, also, aside from being the first female president, She's also the second candidate to win under the Democratic Progressive Party as opposed to the more traditonal Kuomintang which has held it for 5 (arguably 6) terms. and her party has also won a majority in the legislative Yuan, which is actually a pretty significant swing.
    • By Jeeps_Guns_Tanks
      I thought it was disgraceful we had a thread on Russian race cars, and other cars, but not one on American muscle cars and race cars, IE the best cars. 
       
      Over the weekend I'll put a little write up on the GTO and why it kicked off the musclecar, and why the Mustang was an overrated econo box for girls until the 67 model, more akin to a nova then a truly great car like a Pontiac GTO. 
       
      UPDATE:
      My thoughts on why the muscle car era was teh awesome.
       
      The reason 64 to 73 was one of the most interesting era for American cars, is they went a little nuts on how much power they started putting into cars, and all the GM brands for the most part still had their own engine types.
       
      The birth of the muscle car era started in 1964 when John Delorean, Jim Wangers and Pete Estes snuck the GTO option on the 64 mid-size Pontiac Tempest/Lemans platform that was based on GM A-Body platform. There were a few reasons it had to be snuck in, all mainly the fault of GM head executives being stodge old fogies. They had come up with two policies that caused boring cars. The first was their decision to pull out of any GM sponsored racing and the ban on developing performance parts. They also had a ban on putting motors bigger than 330 cubic inches in mid-size cars.
      The sad thing is GM had a thriving race scene and a set of dealers and race teams using their products. Pontiac and Chevrolet in particular had really bumped up their market share through their winning race teams. They were doing crazy stuff like Swiss cheesing frames, producing aluminum front ends (hoods, fenders, bumpers), and producing multi carb manifolds and there’s more I’m sure I’m forgetting. Then BAM, in the span of weeks GM killed it all off in 63.
        
      The heart of GTO option on the Lemans was the 389 cubic inch V8 used in Pontiac full size cars. The V8 was rated a 325 horsepower. The biggest V8 the car came with normally was the 326. The GTO option also included the choice of a close ratio four speed Muncie transmission, and heavy duty suspension and brakes. It could also include Pontiacs Safe-T-track limited slip differential with gear ratio choices of 3.23, 3.55, 3.90, 4.10, and if I recall right, 4.56.  The name was strait up ripped off from Ferrari, by Delorean. You could also order the package with triple carburetors, also known as tri-power, and it upped the engines horsepower to 335.
       
       
      GM and Pontiac found out about it, but Wangers had gone out and showed the car to some big dealers in the Detroit area and they already had big orders so GM corporate, and Pontiac let it be produced, the general manager told Delorean he would have the last laugh because there was no way they could even sell the 5000 that had been authorized, and Pontiac would have to eat the loss on inventory they couldn't sell, and it would be his ass. It sold more than 32,000 units, as a really un advertised option, so Delorean and Estes won the day, and the ban on big engines in mid size cars was lifted, and the GTO became its own model, still based on the Lemans/tempest platform,  but with no small engine choices.
       
      The other GM brands caught up with their own special models in 1965, Chevrolet with the SS 396 Chevelle, Oldsmobile with the 442, and Buick with the GS. GM still put a size restriction on motors and their A-Body mid-size models, but it was now 400 cubic inches, and all the brands had motors that could be grown well past this and already had been and were used in the full-size car lines.  Even this restriction would be pulled in 1970 because other major brands were stuffing huge motors in mid and even the newer smaller cars and GM was losing out.
       
      Ford and Chrysler and even AMC didn't just sit back and watch GM reap the reward, Ford had come out with their ‘Pony’ car the Mustang, in 1964, and it was also a huge success, but it was no performance car, even with the top of the line V8 option, a GTO would eat it alive, handing and acceleration wise.  Ford also had mid-size cars with large V8 options, but none that had been packaged like the GTO and they were light on good large V8s in the early 60s, plus their mid-size cars were ugly as hell.  The Mustang would grow into its own later in the 60s, in particular, when Carol Shelby started playing with them. They never had a great mid-size muscle car that wasn't ugly though.
       
      Chrysler had cars that could be considered muscle cars, but before 68 they were all so ugly, no one but weirdos drove them. They did have some very powerful engine combos, and they really hit the scene hard with the introduction of the cheap as hell but big engine powered Plymouth Road-Runner in 1968, you could buy a very fast Road-Runner for a lot less than you could even a base model GTO.  For a classier Chrysler they had their Plymouth GTX line, and Dodge had their beautiful Charger. The Cuda got an update in 1970, so it wasn’t really really ugly anymore, and the same platform was used to give Dodge the Challenger.  These cars fit more into the pony car scheme though. The main point is Chrysler produced ugly cars until 1968.
       
      GM would jump into the pony car scene in 1967 with the introduction of the first gen F-body. Chevrolet got the Camaro, and Pontiac got the Firebird. These cars were introduced with engine options up to 400 cubic inches, though, when they got a 396, or 400, they were slightly detuned so the mid-size cars still had an ‘advantage’, there was just a little tab that restricted the secondaries on the quadrajet carb.
       
      The whole thing came crashing down and by 1973, the muscle car was all but dead, and the US car industry was in a slump it would not recover from until the late 80s, also when the muscle car returned in a weird way with the Buick Gran National. While it lasted the muscle-car era produced some iconic cars, and some very rare but interesting ones. Most of them looked pretty damn cool though, and by now, they are very rare to see as daily driven cars. They exist; I pass a 68 SS Camaro all the time. Now even a base model muscle car or pony car that's rusted all to hell can be more then 8 to 10 grand, and you will spend triple that making it into a nice car.
       
      1970 was probably the peak year, and some very powerful cars came out that year and that year only. Chevrolet offered the SS Chevelle with the LS6 454, pumping out 450 HP. Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac all had very high horsepower 455 cubic inch V8s in the GSX, 442, and GTO models. Government safety restrictions, smog restrictions that required a lot of crap to be added to the engines, and high insurance prices all worked to kill these cars, and the final straw was the gas crisis.  The US Auto industry was a barren waste land unless you liked trucks, until about 1986.
       
      The cars never lost popularity though, but their worth has fluctuated a lot. You could buy just about anything in the late 70s and early 80s, and you could gate rare stuff a low prices, but by the late 80s the collectors had started getting into muscle cars and the prices went crazy. No, unless you want to spend a lot of money, you’re not going to be driving around a classic car from that era. On the upside, the aftermarket parts scene has gotten so extensive, you can build a 1968 Camaro, or 1970 Chevelle almost from scratch, since the body shell and just about all the body panels are being produced. You’re looking at about 14 grand just for the body shell of a 1970 Chevelle, from there you looking at a huge chunk of change to build it all the way, but it could be done. I suspect they are used to put a very rare, but totaled cars back into shape.
       
      It’s nice to be helping with the restoration of one of these cars, without being tied to the cost. I can have fun taking it apart, and putting it back together without worrying about how I was going to fund it. I also have more tools for working on cars than my father in law, and know more about GM cars, so I’m appreciated, and that’s nice. I just with the owner was willing to upgrade the thing a little, you can really go a long way to making an old muscle car handle and stop well, and be more reliable and safe with upgrades not much more than rebuilding everything dead stock, and putting upgraded suspension on a otherwise numbers matching car really doesn't hurt the value, especially if you put all the stock shit in boxes and save it. I’m not paying for it though so it is of course his call, and putting it back together stock is easier in most cases. I really wish it was a 68 GTO because, man I still know those cars, and every time we run into some stupid Chevy thing, I’m like, man, Pontiacs are so  much better, and I get dirty looks.  BUT THEY ARE!!!
       
      Anyway, I said I would write something up, and there it is. 
       
       
       
      Hopefully we have a few guys in here who dig on American Iron and will post about the cars they loved, and yes, I mean in that way,

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