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Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

T___A

By T___A
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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, T___A said:

I''m a Trump supporter and I live in a right wing state, particularly in a district which Trump won 57-36. So I feel I also buck the trend.

 

What?  My off the cuff observation that was intended to be humorous doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny?  Yeah, ok, I will admit that.  And to be honest, while I live in a very conservative county, the actual city of Grand Rapids is not nearly as conservative as it used to be.  We are the liberal hole of a conservative donut.

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Collimatrix
Collimatrix

This is just too funny not to share:

EnsignExpendable
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Toxn
Toxn

Forwarding "We will fight until the last American" as the new NATO motto.

Jeeps_Guns_Tanks Contributing Member

Jeeps_Guns_Tanks

Posted
Posted

Trump needs permission and Obama didn't? Not that I support this, though as long as it's missile strikes and no troops or aircraft used, it's not the end of the world, I think the NBC attack was BS done by the rebels, but that's just me. Trump being goaded by the media into attacking Syria is not a good thing in my book. Let that shithole country be the Russians problem. I say crank up US oil production even more so we can tell the Saudis to fuck off too. 

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Ramlaen Advanced Member

Ramlaen

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Can the president do this without an act of congress?  I know, dumb question.  

 

The precedent with the War Powers Act so far is that the POTUS can authorize short military engagements without Congressional approval.

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

Trump needs permission and Obama didn't? Not that I support this, though as long as it's missile strikes and no troops or aircraft used, it's not the end of the world, I think the NBC attack was BS done by the rebels, but that's just me. Trump being goaded by the media into attacking Syria is not a good thing in my book. Let that shithole country be the Russians problem. I say crank up US oil production even more so we can tell the Saudis to fuck off too. 

 

No, not a fan of any president, regardless of party, being able to conduct acts of war without congressional approval.  I think the US has become far too comfortable with the idea that the president can just drop bombs on anyone they want to.  I remember when Bill Clinton launched cruise missiles at Sudan in what was obviously a pathetic attempt to deflect from his domestic problems. 

 

Anyhow, the fact that the British and French were onboard with this action makes me even more suspicious.  When have they ever had altruistic motivations in the middle east?  (remembers the Suez war of 1956)

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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10 minutes ago, Donward said:

When was the last time the British AND the French were with us on one of these ventures?

 

Gulf War in 1991?

 

Pretty much.  In 1991 the French brought AMX-30s to a tank fight while the US and UK brought M1A1Abrams and Challengers.  We said to the French, thanks, but we and the Brits got this.

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Sturgeon Advanced Member

Sturgeon

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Posted
1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

So, uh, we are attacking Syria.  Honestly, I don't even know what the heck to think about this.  Can the president do this without an act of congress?  I know, dumb question.  

 

You forget about Obama's career as a missileer so soon?

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Sgt.Squarehead Newbie

Sgt.Squarehead

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2 hours ago, Donward said:

When was the last time the British AND the French were with us on one of these ventures?

 

Gulf War in 1991?

 

It was 2003 FFS (assuming we aren't counting Libya of course).....The last time a load of chemical weapon related bullshit triggered a war and a never-ending sequence of catastrophes in the Middle East, this is just another instalment.

 

History is going to look back on 'The West' in much the way we currently do at Nazis, Stalin or the Khmer Rouge.....We are on the wrong side of history and we all know it.

 

PS - You best be praying ginger-small-paws didn't kill any Russians.

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Donward Newbie

Donward

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55 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

It was 2003 FFS (assuming we aren't counting Libya of course).....The last time a load of chemical weapon related bullshit triggered a war and a never-ending sequence of catastrophes in the Middle East, this is just another instalment.

 

History is going to look back on 'The West' in much the way we currently do at Nazis, Stalin or the Khmer Rouge.....We are on the wrong side of history and we all know it.

 

PS - You best be praying ginger-small-paws didn't kill any Russians.

 

The cheese-eating surrender monkeys weren't with us in Iraqi Freedom so far as I know.

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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7 hours ago, Donward said:

 

The cheese-eating surrender monkeys weren't with us in Iraqi Freedom so far as I know.

Exactly.  Hence all that silliness where congress renamed french fries as "Freedom Fries" and refused to step into any house that featured French doors.  Ok, I made that last thing up.  

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Sgt.Squarehead Newbie

Sgt.Squarehead

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9 hours ago, Donward said:

 

The cheese-eating surrender monkeys weren't with us in Iraqi Freedom so far as I know.

 

I don't give a flying **** what the French do.  TBH I missed the emphasis on the 'AND'.....It was late, I was tired and a wee bit stressed too (my sister has taken my mother to Cyprus,  which is where our criminal in chief decided to launch her war crimes from).

 

Once again we've been dragged into one of your bullshit wars for profit.....****ing Tories!  Never met a war they didn't like.  Actually, come to think of it, I suspect very little dragging was required, we may have even been the instigators based on what I'm reading elsewhere.

 

PS - 'Iraqi Freedom' my arse.....Call it what it was, the illegal invasion of Iraq.  A war crime per the Rome Statute of the ICC (& not being signatories, doesn't mean you aren't culpable):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_aggression

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Tekky Newbie

Tekky

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Posted
18 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

So, uh, we are attacking Syria.  Honestly, I don't even know what the heck to think about this.  Can the president do this without an act of congress?  I know, dumb question.  

I mean since this got skipped I'll toss it in, just for clarification:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution I think wikiped is reasonable for this though I'd be happy to find another.

 

We can attack without declaring war for 60 days. Not that this is followed for dicks though, since it's hard to determine where an individual conflict starts and ends. This act, along with a lot of what we've done in Syria is a potential violation AFAIK (I'm not sure if there as actually been a Authorization for Use of Military Force). With that said, yes, the president can do this if the previous attacks were not considered part of the same military action (?). Nobody appears to be stepping up to the plate calling this out either, since it seems to be acceptable to Washington as a whole. Also the law in and of itself is controversial, as described on the page.

 

But yeah, I think this situation is pretty bloody lame as we still have absolutely no confirmation of chemical weapon attacks that is reliable. Furthermore, perpetrators of previous chemical weapon attacks are still disputed, to the point where I'm not only unsure, but personally do not believe that Syria has gassed its people at all during this conflict. Not only are UN reports unable to confirm whether or not the government was actually involved in chemical weapon use, it doesn't make any sense for them to do it in the first place. Why the hell would you jeopardize your success in the region with something so pathetic, and with the US stating it wants to pull out. Even if it had happened earlier on in the conflict, this instance looks to me like a false flag (though I'm definitely not an expert in this situation).

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Tekky Newbie

Tekky

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8 minutes ago, Legiondude said:

Russia Today is pushing a claim from a Swiss lab that the nerve agent used on that former Russian spy in Britain is actually a US/UK developed compound

 

Of course, it's Russia Today so...where would you like me to place the jar of salt?

 

Still wouldn't shock me in the slightest. At minimum public explanation of the event has been so opaque that it's hard to look at the West favorably.

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Collimatrix Advanced Member

Collimatrix

Posted
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30 minutes ago, Legiondude said:

Russia Today is pushing a claim from a Swiss lab that the nerve agent used on that former Russian spy in Britain is actually a US/UK developed compound

 

Of course, it's Russia Today so...where would you like me to place the jar of salt?

 

Similar linguistic trickery to what we saw with the British reports on that ex-spy getting offed.

 

If the recipe for the chemical weapon is known to other labs, the location of the lab where it was first synthesized is not helpful information.  Anyone could be making it at that point, and a molecule is a molecule.

 

Ferchristsake people, it's mass spectroscopy not magic.

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Mighty_Zuk Newbie

Mighty_Zuk

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17 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Apparently the Russians are trying to get an answer as to why the Swiss data wasn't included in the findings presented to the UN/OPCW, they are being stonewalled.....The whole story is a crock.

Only heard that on RT so far. But it's just 1 laboratory. How many other laboratories were involved?

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