politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[Sturgeon]

5 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

you don't find it disturbing that the seem to be wanting to influence the elections in favor of your candidate of choice?

 

I think there's a very big difference between "Russia is trying to influence our elections* and that's bad and we should stop it" and "Russia is trying to influence our elections, so any right-wing candidate is suspect".

 

*Turnabout may not be fair play in this case, but there is definitely turnabout. We've definitely never ever tried to influence elections ourselves. And frankly, probably the biggest reason the Russians are trying to make sure the Democrats lose is that members of that party shamelessly dicked up Eastern European politics for years. And we set the precedent that, if something far away could impact you at home, then you have a right to meddle.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Russia did not try to influence your elections, it was a cabal within your & our intelligence services, as we both know perfectly well.....Why waste time commenting on what is quite obviously a 'Dog & Pony Show' for the benefit of the unthinking masses, isn't this place just a bit better than that? 

[LoooSeR]

We all know who Trump really is... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... a burger.

[Walter_Sobchak]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Russia did not try to influence your elections, it was a cabal within your & our intelligence services, as we both know perfectly well.....Why waste time commenting on what is quite obviously a 'Dog & Pony Show' for the benefit of the unthinking masses, isn't this place just a bit better than that? 

 

Prove it.

[Meplat]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Russia did not try to influence your elections, it was a cabal within your & our intelligence services, as we both know perfectly well.....Why waste time commenting on what is quite obviously a 'Dog & Pony Show' for the benefit of the unthinking masses, isn't this place just a bit better than that? 

Why would Russia (or any other nation ) NOT try and influence  US elections?  (By hook or by crook?)

[Sgt.Squarehead]

3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Prove it.

 

Well, I can't do that, but I think I've already provided links to an evidence trail that is a lot more convincing than anything we've seen from the 'Dog & Pony Show'.

 

3 hours ago, Meplat said:

Why would Russia (or any other nation ) NOT try and influence  US elections?  (By hook or by crook?)

 

Well I suppose if you count a few hundred thousand spent on FB ads etc. I suppose I must concede that they did, just a little bit, but the whole 'Russian Hackers' thing is a crock and it's connected directly to several other crocks, as I've demonstrated elsewhere.

[Meplat]

31 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Well I suppose if you count a few hundred thousand spent on FB ads etc. I suppose I must concede that they did, just a little bit, but the whole 'Russian Hackers' thing is a crock and it's connected directly to several other crocks, as I've demonstrated elsewhere.

That's ignoring the (likely) billions spent on marketing, lobbying, etc..

 

This is not a new thing.

[Donward]

#WINNING

 

Meet the guys who tape Trump's papers back together

 

Solomon Lartey spent the first five months of the Trump administration working in the Old Executive Office Building, standing over a desk with scraps of paper spread out in front of him.

Lartey, who earned an annual salary of $65,969 as a records management analyst, was a career government official with close to 30 years under his belt. But he had never seen anything like this in any previous administration he had worked for. He had never had to tape the president’s papers back together again.

Armed with rolls of clear Scotch tape, Lartey and his colleagues would sift through large piles of shredded paper and put them back together, he said, “like a jigsaw puzzle.” Sometimes the papers would just be split down the middle, but other times they would be torn into pieces so small they looked like confetti.

 

...

 

But White House aides realized early on that they were unable to stop Trump from ripping up paper after he was done with it and throwing it in the trash or on the floor, according to people familiar with the practice. Instead, they chose to clean it up for him, in order to make sure that the president wasn’t violating the law.

 

...

 

“We got Scotch tape, the clear kind,” Lartey recalled in an interview. “You found pieces and taped them back together and then you gave it back to the supervisor.” The restored papers would then be sent to the National Archives to be properly filed away.

Lartey said the papers he received included newspaper clips on which Trump had scribbled notes, or circled words; invitations; and letters from constituents or lawmakers on the Hill, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

“I had a letter from Schumer — he tore it up,” he said. “It was the craziest thing ever. He ripped papers into tiny pieces.”

 

(HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

 

...

 

That team is now smaller, after many of the career officials were cleared out earlier this year.

Lartey, 54, and Young, 48, were career government officials who worked together in records management until this spring, when both were abruptly terminated from their jobs. Both are now unemployed and still full of questions about why they were stripped of their badges with no explanation and marched off of the White House grounds by Secret Service.

 

...

 

“I was coerced to sign a resignation letter at that time,” he said. “Then they escorted me to the garage and took my parking placard.”

Young, who was terminated April 19, said he fought back and had his official status changed from “resigned” to “terminated.”

 

(And the world's smallest violin plays)

 

 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

10 hours ago, Donward said:

#WINNING

 

Meet the guys who tape Trump's papers back together

 

Solomon Lartey spent the first five months of the Trump administration working in the Old Executive Office Building, standing over a desk with scraps of paper spread out in front of him.

Lartey, who earned an annual salary of $65,969 as a records management analyst, was a career government official with close to 30 years under his belt. But he had never seen anything like this in any previous administration he had worked for. He had never had to tape the president’s papers back together again.

Armed with rolls of clear Scotch tape, Lartey and his colleagues would sift through large piles of shredded paper and put them back together, he said, “like a jigsaw puzzle.” Sometimes the papers would just be split down the middle, but other times they would be torn into pieces so small they looked like confetti.

 

...

 

But White House aides realized early on that they were unable to stop Trump from ripping up paper after he was done with it and throwing it in the trash or on the floor, according to people familiar with the practice. Instead, they chose to clean it up for him, in order to make sure that the president wasn’t violating the law.

 

...

 

“We got Scotch tape, the clear kind,” Lartey recalled in an interview. “You found pieces and taped them back together and then you gave it back to the supervisor.” The restored papers would then be sent to the National Archives to be properly filed away.

Lartey said the papers he received included newspaper clips on which Trump had scribbled notes, or circled words; invitations; and letters from constituents or lawmakers on the Hill, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

“I had a letter from Schumer — he tore it up,” he said. “It was the craziest thing ever. He ripped papers into tiny pieces.”

 

(HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

 

...

 

That team is now smaller, after many of the career officials were cleared out earlier this year.

Lartey, 54, and Young, 48, were career government officials who worked together in records management until this spring, when both were abruptly terminated from their jobs. Both are now unemployed and still full of questions about why they were stripped of their badges with no explanation and marched off of the White House grounds by Secret Service.

 

...

 

“I was coerced to sign a resignation letter at that time,” he said. “Then they escorted me to the garage and took my parking placard.”

Young, who was terminated April 19, said he fought back and had his official status changed from “resigned” to “terminated.”

 

(And the world's smallest violin plays)

 

 

 

 

How is this winning?  We shouldn't have professional archivists?  65 grand a year is not exactly living large in a major city like Washington DC.  As someone who cares deeply about preserving historical records and archival materials, I find this disturbing.  Why does everyone look the other way when Trump violates established norms of behavior and/or laws?

[Walter_Sobchak]

11 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

Well, I can't do that, but I think I've already provided links to an evidence trail that is a lot more convincing than anything we've seen from the 'Dog & Pony Show'.

 

 

Well I suppose if you count a few hundred thousand spent on FB ads etc. I suppose I must concede that they did, just a little bit, but the whole 'Russian Hackers' thing is a crock and it's connected directly to several other crocks, as I've demonstrated elsewhere.

 

If by the Dog and Pony Show you mean the Mueller investigation, its hard to say since it's mostly secret.  However, 20 indictments is nothing to sneeze at.  It's 20 indictments more than the farcical Benghazi investigation produced, and in less time.

 

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and false statements — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

[Sturgeon]

2 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

How is this winning?  We shouldn't have professional archivists?  65 grand a year is not exactly living large in a major city like Washington DC.  As someone who cares deeply about preserving historical records and archival materials, I find this disturbing.  Why does everyone look the other way when Trump violates established norms of behavior and/or laws?

 

I'd fucking rip up a letter from slimy Chuck Schumer, too.

[Sturgeon]

1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

If by the Dog and Pony Show you mean the Mueller investigation, its hard to say since it's mostly secret.  However, 20 indictments is nothing to sneeze at.  It's 20 indictments more than the farcical Benghazi investigation produced, and in less time.

 

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and false statements — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

 

Indictments are cool and all, but where's the evidence of this supposed "collusion"? I see evidence that Manafort and Flynn are shitheads, sure, but nothing else. And the fact that the Mueller investigation went after Russians because they tweeted and bought ads on Facebook doesn't really say "oh my god, this conspiracy goes deeper than I thought!" to me.

[Walter_Sobchak]

11 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Indictments are cool and all, but where's the evidence of this supposed "collusion"? I see evidence that Manafort and Flynn are shitheads, sure, but nothing else. And the fact that the Mueller investigation went after Russians because they tweeted and bought ads on Facebook doesn't really say "oh my god, this conspiracy goes deeper than I thought!" to me.

 

Maybe because the investigation is not over and they haven't released their findings yet?  

[Walter_Sobchak]

17 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

I'd fucking rip up a letter from slimy Chuck Schumer, too.

 

You either believe the president is subject to the law your you don't.

 

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

[Walter_Sobchak]

My best guess is that someone left a VHS copy of Canadian Bacon running on a White House TV and Trump watched it and got ideas.

 

 

[Sturgeon]

16 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

You either believe the president is subject to the law your you don't.

 

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

 

That law says very little about destruction, and more to the point, fuck Chuck Schumer.

I'm not surprised some bureaucrat who thought they had a job for life is sour at Trump for downsizing the Fed. I'm also not surprised a few records got torn up, and I'm sure that ~n~e~v~er~ happened before.

[Walter_Sobchak]

In case anyone is wondering just how badly we are getting ripped off by those dastardly Canucks, here is a chart.  For some reason, it does not include hockey players.  As can be seen, the US has a slight trade deficit on goods, but a sizable advantage on services.  Dairy, which President Trump seems very concerned about, accounts for a smaller percentage of trade than vegetable oils.  

 

[Sturgeon]

21 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Maybe because the investigation is not over and they haven't released their findings yet?  

 

But you can't have it both ways, Walt. Either there's public evidence of collusion, or there isn't. And there isn't, not yet.

[Ramlaen]

Speaking of investigations, the IG report on the Clinton email investigation is supposed to come out on the 14th.

[Walter_Sobchak]

1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

But you can't have it both ways, Walt. Either there's public evidence of collusion, or there isn't. And there isn't, not yet.

 

I'm trying to have it both ways?  It's other people on this forum who keep claiming that they "know" its all a fraud before all the evidence is presented.  I'm not the one promoting conspiracy theories about the "Deep State".  I'm taking the more objective attitude that perhaps the reason that the entire intelligence and federal law enforcement community seems so interested in the issue is because they have genuine suspicions.  Occam's razor.  The guy with all the connections to the Russians might, um, have connections to the Russians.  It's a valid concern.

[Sturgeon]

2 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I'm trying to have it both ways?  It's other people on this forum who keep claiming that they "know" its all a fraud before all the evidence is presented.  I'm not the one promoting conspiracy theories about the "Deep State".  I'm taking the more objective attitude that perhaps the reason that the entire intelligence and federal law enforcement community seems so interested in the issue is because they have genuine suspicions.  Occam's razor.  The guy with all the connections to the Russians might, um, have connections to the Russians.  It's a valid concern.

 

No, you were replying to someone who was talking about Russian hackers which is a crock of shit. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that what you really meant was "Russian collusion", but it's pretty clear that Squarehead was talking about hackers.

 

As far as I've seen, the Clintons and Obamas have 10x the connections to the Russians that Trump does. Seems pretty obvious that this is a reaction from more established organs of government who feel threatened by Trump. Two and two. Now that doesn't mean I don't approve of the investigation, for all I care it can go right ahead. I don't think they'll find a damn thing, but I am prepared to be wrong.

[Ramlaen]

4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Dairy, which President Trump seems very concerned about

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/06/11/why-trudeau-doesnt-have-the-high-ground-on-trade/?__twitter_impression=true

[ShamefurDispray]

18 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/06/11/why-trudeau-doesnt-have-the-high-ground-on-trade/?__twitter_impression=true

Ah yes, the good old dairy cartel.

A cartel that not only limits foreign imports but local production in Canada all to ensure that a few farmers in Quebec don't have to compete.

To give you an idea of how ridiculous the cartel is, there are licenses for milk producing cows in order to legally produce milk to sell to the market. And since new licenses aren't issued or very rarely issued, a milk production license for a single cow is hideously expensive and runs at a 6 figure sum. 

While our consumers get ripped off by the dairy cartel, it doesn't do much good for the industry overall; as countries like Australia dismantled their systems, they began to export and develop the industry rather than stagnate due to being heavily protected and unable to expand.

 

If there is anything good about this trade war, it's that the dairy cartel in Canada is being brought to the front page and hopefully dismantled.

[Walter_Sobchak]

I really wish Jim Carrey would shut the fuck up.  I don't care about his stupid fucking paintings.  I don't care that he hates Trump.  I hate his movies and I think he's a slime bag who gave his girlfriend multiple STDs and lied about it after she killed herself.  Also, he is an anti-vaxxer.  Fuck that guy.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:07 PM, Sturgeon said:

but it's pretty clear that Squarehead was talking about hackers

 

I was indeed, I've been following the investigation of the alleged DNC hack ever since Seth Rich got whacked.