politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[Toxn]

14 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

Unless you're telling me that Russian memes are orders of magnitude more dank than American ones, I don't see how this is a major concern.

We must not allow a dankness gap.

 

[Xlucine]

19 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

 

The sanctions on Russia I linked are executive orders.  Trump can reverse those with a pen stroke.  Russia is plenty upset about THAAD in South Korea.  Trump is the CinC of the entire US military; it's one of the few areas where he has absolute, unquestioned authority if it comes down to it.  It might cost him some political capital to exercise this authority, but then if he's a Russian puppet who is controlled by blackmail and/or installed by Russian meddling, why would that matter?  Recognition of countries is also another rare area where the US president has a large degree of unilateral authority.

 

I'm niggling here, but Xi Jinping saying that russia doesn't like THAAD in south korea isn't really proof that russia considers it a major annoyance. Of course Xi would say russia is on their side, same way that every government ever has publicly maintained that their allies agree with them.

[Collimatrix]

12 minutes ago, Xlucine said:

 

I'm niggling here, but Xi Jinping saying that russia doesn't like THAAD in south korea isn't really proof that russia considers it a major annoyance. Of course Xi would say russia is on their side, same way that every government ever has publicly maintained that their allies agree with them.

 

Oh shit, is Xi Xinping Putin's puppet too?!

[LoooSeR]

Russia didn't managed to influence elections in Ukraine, which was very important for us, and suddenly can manipulate all sort of elections everywhere in a matter of less than 2 years!

[Sturgeon]

5 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I don't care how much a scum bag he may or may not be.  NOT THE POINT.  The president is seriously entertaining an offer for let a hostile foreign power interrogate American citizens, including a former ambassador.   You all keep arguing that Trump is not some sort of Russian stooge.   Let me ask you this.  If he was, how would his behavior be any different?

 

 

If it were Obama, you'd be talking about how wise he is for getting a 12-for-one.

[Collimatrix]

In other news, the New York Times is alleging that Trump lawyer Michael Cohen secretly taped Trump discussing hush money payments to former Playboy model Karen McDougal.

All I can think is Thank God.

 

Thing is, you look at Stormy Daniels and you think "shit, is that all being a billionaire gets you?  Surely Trump could do better.":



But this is much more in line with the tastes I would expect from someone as rich and famous as Trump:

[Walter_Sobchak]

6 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

 

The sanctions on Russia I linked are executive orders.  Trump can reverse those with a pen stroke.  Russia is plenty upset about THAAD in South Korea.  Trump is the CinC of the entire US military; it's one of the few areas where he has absolute, unquestioned authority if it comes down to it.  It might cost him some political capital to exercise this authority, but then if he's a Russian puppet who is controlled by blackmail and/or installed by Russian meddling, why would that matter?  Recognition of countries is also another rare area where the US president has a large degree of unilateral authority.

 

Trump is causing tension in NATO by asking them to increase defense spending.  How does that help Putin?  Trump is causing tension in the G7, which favors free trade, and simultaneously asking Saudi Arabia to increase oil production.  Russia's economy is 2/3 dependent on oil production.  That clearly doesn't help Putin either.  As for the EU, they're Russia's largest oil and gas export market.  They're insanely dependent on Russia.  Trump pointed this out and mocked them for it.  Again, this does not help Putin.

 

I like Russia a lot.  I think the country has been unfairly vilified, and I find much of their history and technology fascinating.  But let's be fucking real here; Russia is not a strategic peer to the USA.  Russia has a GDP somewhere between Spain and Italy.  Russia used to have enormous industrial capacity; this was looted in the 1990s and will need to be reconstituted from scratch if they ever want it again.  This further means that the relatively large number of technical specialists Russia has in certain high-tech fields (aerospace, nuclear engineering, some medicine) can't really be utilized domestically.  At this very moment, Russia just doesn't matter all that much.  Russia isn't trying to manipulate US politics from the top down.  Russia has just gotten down with narrowly avoiding disintegration and implosion, and is now working in building itself back up to where it was decades ago.  By what means exactly, is Russia supposed to be able to manipulate US presidential elections?

 

Thus far, the Mueller investigation has discovered a few thousand ads that Russian front companies purchased for a grand total of $100,000.  The entire Trump campaign cost more than half a billion dollars.  The Russian contribution is rounding error.  It's a lot like how voter fraud verifiably does happen.  It does occur, but it's generally considered so rare that it doesn't threaten the integrity of the election.  Did the Russians run some intentionally divisive ads during the election?  Sure looks like it, but nobody should care.  Mexico and Australia try to do it too, but it's not really considered significant.  Unless you're telling me that Russian memes are orders of magnitude more dank than American ones, I don't see how this is a major concern.

 

Now, that's not saying that Russian companies and the Russian government weren't above a bit of old-fashioned pay for play, but you'd be stupid not to.  The price of bribes for minor favors is ridiculously low.  But actually controlling the US president on high-level matters?  When he's already a billionaire?  Again, by what means?

 

I'll be honest, I don't think they are literally controlling Trump via some sort of black mail.  I think it's a more a case that Trump has some sort of admiration of Putin (and other autocrats) and wants to be in their club, so to speak.  I also think he is financially tied to Russian financiers and oligarchs.  And yes, I think he is shallow enough to tailor foreign policy decisions around what is best for his own personal finances.  If he had released his tax returns like most normal candidates, this would be less of a concern.  The same goes for if he had actually separated himself from his businesses while in office.  Ethics rules exist for a reason, but unfortunately there is little political will to enforce them concerning this President.  As to your comments regarding the Mueller investigation, let's wait and see what all they come up with. 

 

As to Russia, I like many individual Russians quite a bit.  They are some of my favorite contributors to Sturgeon's House.  I have a good deal of sympathy for the many great tragedies that have befallen the Russian people over the past 100 years.  That said, I do not like Putin at all, nor do I trust him.  I respect him as a very intelligent and capable adversary, but that's about as far as it goes.  

 

Right now I see the USA and Russia as having some fundamentally different interests on the world stage that place limits on the extent to which the two nations can cooperate.  Trump's attempt to win Putin over by establishing some sort of personal friendship does not seem to be a particularly wise approach to me.  As to some of the points you make, I think you are missing the big picture.  It doesn't really matter to Putin how much NATO spends on defense.  Even right now, NATO spending is magnitudes higher than what Russia can afford.  What I am sure delights Putin is when Trump sends signals that the USA might start to consider its collective defense responsibilities as stipulated by the NATO treaty to be optional, or contingent on some arbitrary set of factors.  If the international security apparatus established after WWII starts to fray, it opens up a lot more possibilities for a second rate power such as Russia to start flexing it's muscles regionally.  

 

The weirdest result of the Trump presidency has been that I find myself in agreement with.....George Will.  I never thought I would be saying that about the old insufferable baseball loving champion of Reagan era conservatism.  He pretty much summed up my feelings regarding Trump in his latest column.

 

 

If I had an ounce of sense, I would stop arguing politics here and focus on writing the next boring script for my next boring youtube video.  Yeesh.

[Ramlaen]

 

[Sturgeon]

4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Trump's attempt to win Putin over by establishing some sort of personal friendship does not seem to be a particularly wise approach to me.

 

In another setting, this would be called "diplomacy".

[Walter_Sobchak]

8 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

 

In another setting, this would be called "diplomacy".

yes, in another setting.

[Sturgeon]

1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

yes, in another setting.

 

Bc muh collusion, presumably

[T___A]

With supporters like these the Arizona Democratic party is in for a rough times:

 

 

[Collimatrix]

  
 

 

[Mogensthegreat]

https://babylonbee.com/news/in-major-social-faux-pas-trump-body-slams-queen-of-england/

[Sgt.Squarehead]

ROFL.....His behaviour was just about that courtly TBH. 

 

If he had really laid a hostile hand on her of course, that would pit the fat useless fucks in the secret service against our lads.....Which would be just about as fucking funny as something could possibly get (don't be fooled by the funny uniforms). 

[Mogensthegreat]

3 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

ROFL.....His behaviour was just about that courtly TBH. 

 

If he had really laid a hostile hand on her of course, that would pit the fat useless fucks in the secret service against our lads.....Which would be just about as fucking funny as something could possibly get (don't be fooled by the funny uniforms). 

 

*unintelligible patriotic screeching about how the British underestimated the people in the colonies during the Revolutionary War too and something about freedom and then an eagle flies by*

[Mogensthegreat]

 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

On 7/21/2018 at 1:32 PM, Sturgeon said:

 

Bc muh collusion, presumably

 

No, because Trump's style of "diplomacy" doesn't work.  For example, look how well his attempts to win over Rocket man Kim with personal charm and a handshake went.  Since the Singapore summit, North Korea has done exactly none of the things Trump said they were going to do, they have refused to show up for meetings or cancelled them, and now Kim is making new demands that a peace deal be made before any further progress can be made on nukes.

 

 

[Legiondude]

9 hours ago, Mogensthegreat said:

 

*unintelligible patriotic screeching about how the British underestimated the people in the colonies during the Revolutionary War too and something about freedom and then an eagle flies by*

You don't have to do that, the US 3rd Infantry Regiment is perfectly prepared to muster arms against British encroachment again

[Sturgeon]

3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

No, because Trump's style of "diplomacy" doesn't work.  For example, look how well his attempts to win over Rocket man Kim with personal charm and a handshake went.  Since the Singapore summit, North Korea has done exactly none of the things Trump said they were going to do, they have refused to show up for meetings or cancelled them, and now Kim is making new demands that a peace deal be made before any further progress can be made on nukes.

 

 

 

Yeah, cuz relations with North Korea were so great before.

[Toxn]

12 hours ago, Mogensthegreat said:

 

 

There is already an eternal fun control argument thread. Post this there.

[Toxn]

11 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yeah, cuz relations with North Korea were so great before.

I love the fact that the idea of having one leader talk to the other was such anathema that it took the rogue insane clown unhinged maverick {continues for a full paragraph} president to actually do it.

 

Where are you as a country when manifestly common-sense stuff is the domain of the insane?

[Mogensthegreat]

7 minutes ago, Toxn said:

There is already an eternal fun control argument thread. Post this there.

 

Oh shit, sorry. Forgot that existed.

[Walter_Sobchak]

56 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Yeah, cuz relations with North Korea were so great before.

 

No, they were not.  And given the pattern of those relations, it was entirely predictable that Trump's approach was going to fail.  And in the process, he has made the US look weak for making concessions to NK and getting nothing in return.  

 

Meanwhile, he is now screaming at Iran in ALL CAPS.  

[Toxn]

2 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

No, they were not.  And given the pattern of those relations, it was entirely predictable that Trump's approach was going to fail.  And in the process, he has made the US look weak for making concessions to NK and getting nothing in return.  

 

Meanwhile, he is now screaming at Iran in ALL CAPS.  

Yeah, and in the same week as Israel had its coming out party as well. Not to mention that we're rapidly going into tit-for-tat protectionist territory.

 

The next year or so is going to be rough.