politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[Collimatrix]

22 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Grauniad reckons he's gonna squeal:  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/aug/21/michael-cohen-latest-live-news-updates-trump-lawyer-plea-deal-charges

 

Indy too:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/michael-cohen-plea-deal-trump-pardon-manafort-trial-guilty-stormy-daniels-karen-mcdougal-a8501961.html

 

It's getting quite exciting now! 

 

 

In the past, Trump has proven quite adept at dropping allies who are compromising or underperforming to protect himself.  The only way that that this could become a problem for him is if his opponents start a large-scale campaign of legal harassment of literally everyone connected to him, and if that were to happen, I imagine Trump would have no qualms about pardoning all of them.

 

This event proves that either Mueller is fucking incompetent, or Trump is somehow squeaky-clean.  Trump did real estate deals in NYC for ages; you'd think that at some point he would have rubbed shoulders with some sort of organized crime, or had to grease some palms to get something done.  You'd think there would be something dubious he did at some point that could be proven; there are loads of stories of him double-crossing contractors and whatnot.  Does Mueller dig any of that up?  No!  He goes after peripheral Trump allies who maybe did something financially dubious ages before they were even working with Trump, and his lawyer who maybe wasn't 100% completely careful about what funds he used to pay off which Playboy bunnies that Trump was fooling around with.  Total eyeroll and yawn stuff.  They mean to tell me that Cohen is perhaps slightly sleazy?  Have these people met any lawyers in their lives?

 

So, either Mueller is an idiot or Trump is a saint.

[ApplesauceBandit]

 

6 hours ago, Lostwingman said:

Man the old fogeys in the DNC who've been around for ages are going to face contests from within that make the rise of "Trumpism" in the Republicans look positively enviable.

 

Just imagine it, entire hoards of confused socialists. Oh boy we're gonna get our own Labor party! How long before Corbyn is a guest speaker?

 

Well, we've already had Farage 

[Lord_James]

9 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

 

 

Should be interesting to see how all these “social justice” faggots respond to actual human rights violations bordering on genocide... oh wait... they won’t. 

[Toxn]

1 minute ago, Lord_James said:

 

Should be interesting to see how all these “social justice” faggots respond to actual human rights violations bordering on genocide... oh wait... they won’t. 

Dude, as a South African: what the fuck are you talking about?

[Lord_James]

1 hour ago, Toxn said:

what the fuck are you talking about?

 

2 things: 

 

1. I'm talking about our "social justice warriors" whom talk about virtue and standing up for human rights and all that stuff, but don't actually do any of that because they're a bunch of moral-less shit lords. 

 

2. So farmers aren't being killed on their land, for their land over there? And those farmers aren't of a singular race, that may or may not be a minority in that country? 

 

 

My point was that if these "social justice" dickheads (over here in the US) were actually about justice: the news that farmers are being killed because they're of a different race should be a rallying cry to arms... but that certainly wont be the case, as those same social justice cucks are nothing but hypocrites and second rate scum. Sorry if I offended you. 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Stormy Daniels channels Mallory Knox:  https://www.indy100.com/article/stormy-daniels-trump-michael-cohen-twitter-response-viral-funny-8504311

 

I like her, she's certainly a lot classier than Trump! 

 

 

[Toxn]

9 minutes ago, Lord_James said:

 

2 things: 

 

1. I'm talking about our "social justice warriors" whom talk about virtue and standing up for human rights and all that stuff, but don't actually do any of that because they're a bunch of moral-less shit lords. 

 

2. So farmers aren't being killed on their land, for their land over there? And those farmers aren't of a singular race, that may or may not be a minority in that country? 

 

 

My point was that if these "social justice" dickheads (over here in the US) were actually about justice: the news that farmers are being killed because they're of a different race should be a rallying cry to arms... but that certainly wont be the case, as those same social justice cucks are nothing but hypocrites and second rate scum. Sorry if I offended you. 

1.

I don't give a fuck about your SJWs or whatever. Maybe they're just not dumb enough to jump on an overblown news story. Or maybe they really do have it in for white folk and are secretly cheering on the EFF. I don't know and don't care.

 

2.

Being killed on their land? Yes, in as much as people (black and white) get murdered on farms in general. Anything more than that is incredibly murky. Let's just say that, if there is a racial bias driving some of the murders (or making them more cruel than would otherwise be the case), it's well-hidden enough so that legendarily lawsuit-happy special interest groups like Afriforum have not been able to put a solid case together.

 

As for being killed for their land? No.

[Toxn]

Because diversity of views is the intellectual equivalent of exercise and getting enough fibre, I chatted to a colleague and friend who is more Afrikaans, conservative and right-leaning than me. His take is that an investigation should be welcomed and our government's reaction has been too negative. The innocent having nothing to hide etc.

[Lostwingman]

Well Toxn, when the news that filters out of SA is of brutal shit like this and things like this that sound eerily like what happened Zimbabwe, the perception is going to be a certain way.

 

Although we'll see how this goes.

[Toxn]

29 minutes ago, Lostwingman said:

Well Toxn, when the news that filters out of SA is of brutal shit like this and things like this that sound eerily like what happened Zimbabwe, the perception is going to be a certain way.

 

Although we'll see how this goes.

So here's the thing: we're you, but worse

https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/us-burglars-torture-child-to-force-dad-to-give-money-15721955

 

Much, much worse

https://www.iol.co.za/news/boy-2-scarred-for-life-after-boiling-water-attack-2088123

 

https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/boiling-hot-water-used-to-torture-chinese-303438

 

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.timeslive.co.za/amp/news/south-africa/2017-10-10-eastern-cape-man-gets-18-years-for-torture-and-murder/&ved=2ahUKEwjJi-Ki0oPdAhXLX8AKHWDdCpg4ChAWMAB6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw1xYhYeJLfnqTJGAOycg-UN

 

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1622395/police-investigating-attempted-murder-case-against-ramatlhodi/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjlnrP-0oPdAhVqLsAKHemgAx04FBAWMAR6BAgCEAE&usg=AOvVaw2_DvPuKuRrlM-9d8esOCyc

 

Noticing anything about these cases, perchance? A sort of free-for-all awfulness that's more about haves and have-nots then blacks and whites? 

 

Nuance is the thing that's lacking in the understanding of the issue coming from such first-hand sources as fucking New Zealand and Australia. I'm not saying that the land expropriation-without-compensation issue isn't deeply concerning or emotive, and frankly I know of at least a few people for whom it's a red line and don't begrudge them that. But this thing is more complex than "hurr-durr-zim 2.0" and you should all be aware of that.

[Toxn]

As an example folk from the US can maybe relate to: what is your opinion about the black genocide happening in the US?

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-sa-reacts-to-donald-trump-comments-on-land-expropriation-farm-murders-20180823

 

I mean; all that evidence of racial profiling, racial bias in incarceration, the expropriation of property, all those police killings? It looks awfully bad from out here.

 

Your response is, I assume, that I'm a fucking fruitloop who is taking a complex situation and twisting it to support my crazy lefty worldview without knowing any of the important details. Right?

[Ramlaen]

21 minutes ago, Toxn said:

As an example folk from the US can maybe relate to: what is your opinion about the black genocide happening in the US?

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-sa-reacts-to-donald-trump-comments-on-land-expropriation-farm-murders-20180823

 

I mean; all that evidence of racial profiling, racial bias in incarceration, the expropriation of property, all those police killings? It looks awfully bad from out here.

 

Your response is, I assume, that I'm a fucking fruitloop who is taking a complex situation and twisting it to support my crazy lefty worldview without knowing any of the important details. Right?

 

My response is that young black men killing young black men making up nearly half of all murders in the US is a poor comparison to the outside appearance of whats going on in SA.

[Toxn]

1 minute ago, Ramlaen said:

 

My response is that young black men killing young black men making up nearly half of all murders in the US is a poor comparison.

See, you can do nuance.

[Ramlaen]

3 minutes ago, Toxn said:

See, you can do nuance.

 

I can see when someone tries to make an apples to oranges comparison as well.

[Toxn]

Just now, Ramlaen said:

 

I can see when someone tries to make an apples to oranges comparison as well.

Completely missing the point. Just so perfectly and completely.

 

You know literally nothing about the situation here, but you've got the balls to tell me that my little analogy (which exists solely to point out that you don't know enough and what that sounds like when reversed) is not a good point of comparison. As if I'm seriously trying to debate the point that black genocide in the US is a thing.

 

You perfect, perfect specimen.

[Ramlaen]

5 minutes ago, Toxn said:

Completely missing the point. Just so perfectly and completely.

 

You know literally nothing about the situation here, but you've got the balls to tell me that my little analogy (which exists solely to point out that you don't know enough and what that sounds like when reversed) is not a good point of comparison. As if I'm seriously trying to debate the point that black genocide in the US is a thing.

 

You perfect, perfect specimen.

 

Yes I have the balls to tell you your obviously intentionally bad analogy was an intentionally bad analogy. Allow me to golf clap your self proclaimed victory.

[Toxn]

2 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

Yes I have the balls to tell you your obviously intentionally bad analogy was an intentionally bad analogy. Allow me to golf clap your self proclaimed victory.

Go for it dude, you're still missing the fucking point.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you kids will continue to line up around the block to tell me how I'm being genocided, so who am I to question the wisdom of the crowd?

 

I'll be in the corner getting martyred as a symbolic object lesson for your internal politics if anyone needs me.

[Lord_James]

35 minutes ago, Toxn said:

As an example folk from the US can maybe relate to: what is your opinion about the black genocide happening in the US?

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-sa-reacts-to-donald-trump-comments-on-land-expropriation-farm-murders-20180823

 

I mean; all that evidence of racial profiling, racial bias in incarceration, the expropriation of property, all those police killings? It looks awfully bad from out here.

 

I guess this is fair; I should have withheld judgement, and I appologize for jumping to conclusions. Though, the current situation (with practically uncompensated, government sponsored seizure of land) is somewhat damning. 

 

 

I guess the biggest difference between these 2 situations is the media coverage: 

the cops “targeting blacks” over here was overblown by the media to ridiculous levels. Conversely, I personally haven’t seen much news from over there about the land seizures (and murders), except by smaller news sources and youtubers. Feel free to post stuff that enlightens me, though. 

[Ramlaen]

1 minute ago, Toxn said:

Go for it dude, you're still missing the fucking point.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you kids will continue to line up around the block to tell me how I'm being genocided, so who am I to question the wisdom of the crowd?

 

I'll be in the corner getting martyred as a symbolic object lesson for your internal politics if anyone needs me.

 

The irony is you are missing the point I was making.

 

And I'm not claiming whites are being genocided in SA, but if you are fine with your country's farming industry getting Zimbabwe'd then good for you?

[Lostwingman]

1 hour ago, Toxn said:

 

Nuance is the thing that's lacking in the understanding of the issue coming from such first-hand sources as fucking New Zealand and Australia.

 

To this point specifically, searching google for news stories is like trying to find diamonds in the St. Lawrence. More to that, we are all here familiar with the wider news media's use "copy paste" news articles that get articles from 15 different countries' newspaper to be virtually identical. I was only trying to find sources that looked legitimate because of how shitty google is, as long as the news source looked legitimate and wasn't a blog I felt it sufficient. My point wasn't the source, but rather that those are stories I've seen that's made it out of SA and are what what develop the impression of SA going the route of Zimbabwe.

 

3 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

The irony is you are missing the point I was making.

 

And I'm not claiming whites are being genocided in SA, but if you are fine with your country's farming industry getting Zimbabwe'd then good for you?

 

Stop being an uninformed foreigner, there is nothing going on in SA atm. All is well.

 

[Donward]

I don’t think whites are being genocided in South Africa. 

 

But I can confidentially say that if they were, the world (The United Nations, media, American Left, etc) would give zero fucks about it.

[Toxn]

4 minutes ago, Lord_James said:

 

I guess this is fair; I should have withheld judgement, and I appologize for jumping to conclusions. Though, the current situation (with practically uncompensated, government sponsored seizure of land) is somewhat damning. 

 

 

I guess the biggest difference between these 2 situations is the media coverage: 

the cops “targeting blacks” over here was overblown by the media to ridiculous levels. Conversely, I personally haven’t seen much news from over there about the land seizures (and murders), except by smaller news sources and youtubers. Feel free to post stuff that enlightens me, though. 

 

So, firstly, there has been no uncompensated siezure of land. And the compensated seizure of land fell over because it was at market rate. In fact, it was such a non-issue that Jacob Zuma (our previous president recently deposed in an internal party battle by Cyril Rhamaphosa) actually let the funding for the paid expropriation scheme drop to around 20% of the Thabo Mbeki era. The result is that whites currently own well over 70% of farm land in South Africa.

 

Was this process perfectly squeeky clean? Heck no. Even under the paid compensation scheme dubious land claims were put through (the one which included my folk's shared farm went in literally on midnight on the last day for claims to be submitted) and the resulting handovers had a disturbing tendency to go to politically well-connected businessmen operating "on behalf of" the communities that had a usable claim wherever there were, say, potential mining rights involved.

 

This new idea of making expropriation without compensation only came up about 10 minutes before Rhamaphosa captured the internal ANC vote and became the next leader of the party (and thus the president) by a whisker over his opposition, Nkosazana Dlamini Zuma (who is a story all by herself). It seems that, in the horse trading which got him the vote, Rhamaphosa had to agree to back the expropriation-without-compensation scheme once he became president. This must have been a bitter pill, because he is basically a Davos drone come to power and one of his early crowning political achievements was to help draft our Constitution (which the expropriation-without-compensationists maintain needs to be amended to make this work). So the whole thing has been a bit of a slow-roll so far, with lots of committees and hearings before anything too drastic happens.

 

The current news is that government has gone forwards with a 'test case' to see if expropriation-without-compensation can be done within the confines of our existing Constitutional provisions. Which it can't. This will inevitably turn into a giant, years-long fiasco in which our courts look at the issue before deciding that its bullshit and axing the whole thing. By which point the ANC will be safely past the 2019 elections and can go about pretending that this all never happened. That is, unless the EFF manages to out-maneuver them and so on.

 

Make no mistake: this is all very worrying. There is a good chance that the ANC, if it wants to retain power and not slide into an era of coalition government, will play on this obvious sore spot in our national dialogue to keep the EFF from gaining more traction and help differentiate themselves from the DA. And, since a bunch of our minority parties do actually want honest-to-goodness expropriation, communism, rains of blood etc, a constitutional vote may actually take place and an amendment may pass. Which will promptly make king Goodwill Zwelethini explode and will also end up getting declared un-constitutional (improbable as that sounds), but that's a story for another day. 

[Toxn]

21 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

The irony is you are missing the point I was making.

 

And I'm not claiming whites are being genocided in SA, but if you are fine with your country's farming industry getting Zimbabwe'd then good for you?

Do I give that impression? Like, at all? Because I seem to remember the thrust of my conversation here being towards the idea of nuance rather than to the idea that whitey should get his farms taken away. Because, you know, I'm white. And my family owns shares in a (completely non-productive, but whatever) farm.

 

20 minutes ago, Lostwingman said:

 

To this point specifically, searching google for news stories is like trying to find diamonds in the St. Lawrence. More to that, we are all here familiar with the wider news media's use "copy paste" news articles that get articles from 15 different countries' newspaper to be virtually identical. I was only trying to find sources that looked legitimate because of how shitty google is, as long as the news source looked legitimate and wasn't a blog I felt it sufficient. My point wasn't the source, but rather that those are stories I've seen that's made it out of SA and are what what develop the impression of SA going the route of Zimbabwe.

 

 

Stop being an uninformed foreigner, there is nothing going on in SA atm. All is well.

 

Glad to be of assistance:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/

https://www.iol.co.za/

https://citizen.co.za/

https://www.news24.com/

The Pretoria News, which I grew up with, seems to have sadly moved over to a shitty paywalled reader:

http://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/pretoria-news/

Ditto the star, Cape Times, Cape Argus etc:

http://thestar.pressreader.com/

http://capetimes.pressreader.com/

http://capeargus.pressreader.com/

[Mogensthegreat]

TDS is an actual thing.

[Toxn]

38 minutes ago, Donward said:

I don’t think whites are being genocided in South Africa. 

 

But I can confidentially say that if they were, the world (The United Nations, media, American Left, etc) would give zero fucks about it.

Luckily Oz and the US right would be there to pick up the slack.

 

Do you think my exile would be better spent fighting kangaroos mano-a-mano with most of my extended family, or building my new house entirely out of guns? Because, while I'm a big fan of family, the latter option sounds way cooler.