politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[T___A]

12 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

clearly does not.  This issue was settled pretty conclusively in 1865

The civil war was not about revolution; It was about secession.*

 

12 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

You have no right to overthrow the government.  That's called treason.

 

This is not true. The Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that there is a right to revolution. Even in the Supreme Court case that ruled on secession. 

 

You're presuming that the right to revolution and the right for the government to preserve itself are incompatible and cannot exist simultaneously. The jurisprudence on this subject has generally disagreed. 

 

 

*I should clarify that slavery was the main motivation for secession. 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

2 minutes ago, T___A said:

The civil war was not about revolution; It was about secession. 

 

 

This is not true. The Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that there is a right to revolution. Even in the Supreme Court case that ruled on secession. 

I would like to see a citation please.

[T___A]

3 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

I would like to see a citation please.

 

Texas v. White:

 The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States

 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700

[Legiondude]

IIRC there was also a 1951 or '52 Supreme Court case that does permit grounds to armed revolt, though only if there's evidence of suppressing voting rights by the federal government(i.e. clear evidence of tyrannical government). Similar to the preceding but then contemporary Battle of Athens, Tennessee

 

Cannot remember the name of it though

[Walter_Sobchak]

The late night talk show hosts keep making fun of Rudy Giuliani.  I think they are missing the point.  This is not a legal fight.  This is a political fight, and Giuliani understands that.  That is why he is making arguments that are ridiculous or weird from a legal standpoint.  It's because he understands that the law doesn't really matter at this level of politics.  The end game is making sure that there is enough political support from the public to keep Trump in office, to discredit the Mueller probe in the eyes of Trump's supporters and to make sure that congressional Republicans have an excuse to vote no in case this ever gets to a vote of impeachment.  Fuck, even I am smart enough to figure this out.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Some interesting new info on Guccifer 2.0 & the DNC hack:  https://disobedientmedia.com/2018/05/guccifer-2-0s-american-fingerprints-reveal-an-operation-made-in-the-usa/

 

It's high time for Trump to do what he said (again) & have Clinton & her cronies busted.....They'll squeal like rats and then the whole rotten edifice will come tumbling down. 

 

 

[Donward]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Some interesting new info on Guccifer 2.0 & the DNC hack:  https://disobedientmedia.com/2018/05/guccifer-2-0s-american-fingerprints-reveal-an-operation-made-in-the-usa/

 

It's high time for Trump to do what he said (again) & have Clinton & her cronies busted.....They'll squeal like rats and then the whole rotten edifice will come tumbling down. 

 

 

 

Patience, young grasshopper. 

[Ramlaen]

When you see it...

 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

14 hours ago, Donward said:

Patience, young grasshopper

 

Do you really believe he would ever be permitted to expose the dirty linen of the elite to public scrutiny?

 

Julian Assange went down that road and now he's stuck in the Ecuadorean embassy in London costing our tax-payers a fortune, courtesy of.....

 

[Collimatrix]

2 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

Do you really believe he would ever be permitted to expose the dirty linen of the elite to public scrutiny?

 

Julian Assange went down that road and now he's stuck in the Ecuadorean embassy in London costing our tax-payers a fortune, courtesy of.....

 

Trump, like the honey badger, does not give a shit about what is "permitted."

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Even the honey badger is vulnerable to parasites.

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I have a theory, Trump isn't so much taking people into his cabinet to use them for their skills, but as a discardable media decoys, and uses it as a way to push old republicans that are out of touch or useless, but still have some popularity, out of politics.  Once he fires Bolton for example, Bolton will be done in politics. When he fires Sessions for being a useless, spineless cunt, stuck in the 80s with his war on weed, while letting a corrupt justice department make him look like an idiot at every turn, Sessions will be done in politics. Rinse repeat. 

 

I didn't say this was a good theory or a well thought out one... 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I can't get my head around him at all.....But sometimes it's hard not to like him, for a while at least: 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/right-try-trump-law-terminally-ill-patients-experimental-therapies-a8376726.html

[Xlucine]

That's going to help snake oil salesmen con the terminally ill, and without actually improving access to potentially useful medicine. The FDA already has a procedure for this, and they approve 99% of requests (https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ExpandedAccessCompassionateUse/default.htm)

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Aaaah.....I'd assumed he was creating something like what is described in your link, the unnecessary duplication rather takes the shine off things, doesn't it.

 

Trump is hard work.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

@Sturgeon  Some more 'interesting things', neatly summarised & collated:  https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/hey-republicans-about-that-russian-meddling-thing-a0454284bb3b

[Walter_Sobchak]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

@Sturgeon  Some more 'interesting things', neatly summarised & collated:  https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/hey-republicans-about-that-russian-meddling-thing-a0454284bb3b

 

Looking at the author's credentials, I have to ask what the hell is a biomedical theoretician/applied nutritionist?  Is that some sort of new age bullshit?

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I kind of wondered that myself TBH, but he's just collating facts, the research has been done by many others, with vastly more convincing backgrounds.

[Collimatrix]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:46 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Even the honey badger is vulnerable to parasites.

 

Even if Trump were to be assassinated tomorrow, the change he has brought would not be reversed.  Trump's victory and continued success is like the Russo-Japanese War.  The fact that he won is of enormous significance alone.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Could you quantify that for me? 

 

It's quite difficult to grasp the US perspective on all this for me as an outsider.

 

[Sturgeon]

45 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Could you quantify that for me? 

 

It's quite difficult to grasp the US perspective on all this for me as an outsider.

 

 

Since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, virtually every single Federal elected office of any importance has been held by people within or cushy with a good ol' boys club known to some as "the Establishment". Certain board members might call it "the Cathedral". Described, this group is descended from the white anglo-saxon protestant ruling class, although for various reasons they may not be white, anglo-saxon, or protestant, these days. All hold roughly similar views and are in broad terms chummy with each other. They also fiercely defend their seat of power against the "wrong people".

Trump was one of the "wrong people". The people who voted for him, virtually to a man, were "wrong people", and worse they did not put on hair shirts as penance for it. Instead, they stood tall and proud of their deplorableness, and fucking elected the man that the Establishment least wanted to take the reins of power.

 

Prior to this, I did not think the Cathedral could be defeated. I felt that it was impossible for real changes to happen in my country because the coalition of powerful interests would simply block it from happening, while sending up plausible-seeming justifications. But that isn't so, apparently, in the Billionaire Age. Azathoth is too old and weak, and still a blind idiot while increasingly no longer a god. Trump, despite how much Azathoth hated him and did not want him to win, took power anyway.

From November 2016 to February 2017, I saw a 240 year old, rusted, abandoned machine sputter to life and elect someone that powerful people did not want elected. Before then, I really did think our Constitution was functionally dead. It's not, Trump proved that.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Cheers.....So it turns out we aren't thinking very differently about his election at all.  My thoughts match your own very closely:

 

6 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

Prior to this, I did not think the Cathedral could be defeated. I felt that it was impossible for real changes to happen in my country because the coalition of powerful interests would simply block it from happening, while sending up plausible-seeming justifications. But that isn't so, apparently, in the Billionaire Age. Azathoth is too old and weak, and still a blind idiot while increasingly no longer a god. Trump, despite how much Azathoth hated him and did not want him to win, took power anyway.

 

But how do you guys feel about the man himself.....I'd kinda feel safer if it had been Bernie. 

 

 

[Sturgeon]

1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Cheers.....So it turns out we aren't thinking very differently about his election at all.  My thoughts match your own very closely:

 

 

But how do you guys feel about the man himself.....I'd kinda feel safer if it had been Bernie. 

 

Socialism is no fun, so I wouldn't.

Trump seems much more intelligent than he lets on. The man personally does not appeal to me, but I think he will be one of the best presidents we've had in decades because the problems are so obvious and easy to solve. The reason this hasn't happened previously is that in order to solve them, heads have gotta roll, and you don't stay comfy with the Establishment long if you start doing that.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

So really we are in fact coming at exactly the same thing from opposite sides (I to the left, you to the right), but our mutual ire is far more focussed on the liberal establishment than on each other.....Interesting times, eh compadre? 

[Sturgeon]

57 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

So really we are in fact coming at exactly the same thing from opposite sides (I to the left, you to the right), but our mutual ire is far more focussed on the liberal establishment than on each other.....Interesting times, eh compadre? 

 

Don't worry, you commies start getting uppity and you'll move right up the list.