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Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

T___A

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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2 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

That doesn't help your credibility...  If he were breaking the law, in any way, on that the Democrats and media would have been all over it.  They are are not that incompetent.  :AHDOTCOM:

 

Frankly, that's far less concerning than Obama using the IRS to attack conservative groups and individuals, but considering your track record support corrupt government agencies that probably doesn't bother you either, am I right? LOL

 

Never doubt the incompetence of the Democrats.  That said, there is no mechanism to enforce these rules.  There is only the 25th amendment, or impeachment.  And impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.  That's why Trump and Giuliani are fighting there case in a wa that makes no legal sense, but it all about influencing the public, ie, the political realm.  

 

Anyhow, do a google search for "Trump ethics", you will find all sorts of interesting things.  

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Collimatrix
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This is just too funny not to share:

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Toxn
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Forwarding "We will fight until the last American" as the new NATO motto.

Ramlaen Advanced Member

Ramlaen

Posted
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37 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

The FBI has done plenty of shitting things for many, many years.  I just think it's weird that of all the things that have finally gotten right wingers all excited is a report showing that the former head of the FBI acted inappropriately to help get the Republican candidate elected.

 

Comey didn't get Trump elected.

 

If anything has gotten me 'excited' it is Strzok, someone who played a major role in the investigation becoming what it has, openly saying that they would stop Trump from being elected.

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Ulric Newbie

Ulric

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3 hours ago, Ramlaen said:

 

Comey didn't get Trump elected.

 

If anything has gotten me 'excited' it is Strzok, someone who played a major role in the investigation becoming what it has, openly saying that they would stop Trump from being elected.

 

 

Nothing like using your official position in the Justice department to attempt to disrupt a presidential election. But you know, the big story is the Russian dressing that Trump had on his salad, must be collusion.

 

Let us not forget this timeless quote "Tell Vlad that I'll have more flexibility after the election." - Donald Trump

 

Wait, I might have misattributed that.....

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Sturgeon Advanced Member

Sturgeon

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18 minutes ago, Ulric said:

 

 

Nothing like using your official position in the Justice department to attempt to disrupt a presidential election. But you know, the big story is the Russian dressing that Trump had on his salad, must be collusion.

 

Let us not forget this timeless quote "Tell Vlad that I'll have more flexibility after the election." - Donald Trump

 

 Wait, I might have misattributed that.....

 

No, it was definitely Trump who said that!

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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3 hours ago, Ulric said:

 

 

Nothing like using your official position in the Justice department to attempt to disrupt a presidential election. But you know, the big story is the Russian dressing that Trump had on his salad, must be collusion.

 

Let us not forget this timeless quote "Tell Vlad that I'll have more flexibility after the election." - Donald Trump

 

Wait, I might have misattributed that.....

 

Yes, it was unfortunate that James Comey made a dumb decision which effected the election to some extent.  Oh wait, are you talking about Strzok?    Let's see what the report has to say on the matter.  

 

“Our review did not find documentary or testimonial evidence directly connecting the political views these employees expressed in their text messages and instant messages to the investigative decisions we reviewed,” 

 

So basically, they found nothing indicating that Strzok or Page actually did anything to act on their inappropriate and unprofessional email.  

 

As to the Obama quote, that is what we call "whataboutism."  Oddly enough, it was a favorite logical fallacy used by Soviet propagandists.

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Sturgeon Advanced Member

Sturgeon

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57 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

As to the Obama quote, that is what we call "whataboutism."  Oddly enough, it was a favorite logical fallacy used by Soviet propagandists

 

We should coin a fallacy called "whataboutismism" where when anyone points out a comparison in how two sides were handled they get accused of whataboutism, and then compared to Soviet propagandists for some reason.

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Jeeps_Guns_Tanks Contributing Member

Jeeps_Guns_Tanks

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Well, since even Walt can see Comey needed to be fired, and since that was the thing that caused the Mueller probe to happen, and now was clearly justified, when does the probe go away. He deserved to be fired, no obstruction, the Trump part of the probe doesn't have any grounds for its main claims. 

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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33 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

We should coin a fallacy called "whataboutismism" where when anyone points out a comparison in how two sides were handled they get accused of whataboutism, and then compared to Soviet propagandists for some reason.

 

I'm not the one that introduced some completely unrelated point about Obama.  If that ain't a classic "whatabout", then I'm not sure what is.  

 

29 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

Well, since even Walt can see Comey needed to be fired, and since that was the thing that caused the Mueller probe to happen, and now was clearly justified, when does the probe go away. He deserved to be fired, no obstruction, the Trump part of the probe doesn't have any grounds for its main claims. 

 

I'm not crying any tears for James Comey.  That said, your logic is faulty.  

 

If Trump fired Comey for his handling of the Clinton Email issue, that has no bearing on the Mueller investigation.  Mueller is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, not the firing of James Comey or the 2016 Clinton email issue.  .

 

If Trump fired Comey because he was trying to end the FBI's investigation of Russian influence in the 2016 election, then he was attempting to obstruct justice and the Mueller probe should most certainly continue.  

 

 

 

 

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Ulric Newbie

Ulric

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2 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

As to the Obama quote, that is what we call "whataboutism."  Oddly enough, it was a favorite logical fallacy used by Soviet propagandists.

 

Fuck, you caught me, I'm secretly an agent of the Kremlin, just like Trump is. 

 

Yes, the whole in Obama thing is completely unrelated to what's happening with Trump. I must have imagined the part where it was about doing something favorable to Putin that would be unpopular with a large number of people here in the US. Damn this sluggish schizophrenia of mine.

 

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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3 minutes ago, Ulric said:

 

Fuck, you caught me, I'm secretly an agent of the Kremlin, just like Trump is. 

 

Yes, the whole in Obama thing is completely unrelated to what's happening with Trump. I must have imagined the part where it was about doing something favorable to Putin that would be unpopular with a large number of people here in the US. Damn this sluggish schizophrenia of mine.

 

 

And Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul.  Again, what the hell does it have to do with what is going on now?  

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Ulric Newbie

Ulric

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19 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

And Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul.  Again, what the hell does it have to do with what is going on now?  

How are those two comparable? Should we list all of the world leaders that Obama prostrated himself before? Your want to talk about people working with the Russians on things that are detrimental to our national interests, let's talk about it. Like that time Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets asking them to be patient and to hold off on foreign policy decisions until Reagan could be removed. But I guess since isn't talking about how Trump is actually a puppet of the Kremlin, then it's "completely unrelated".

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Walter_Sobchak Newbie

Walter_Sobchak

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2 minutes ago, Ulric said:

How are those two even remotely comparable. Should we list all of the world leaders that Obama prostrated himself before? Your want to talk about people working with the Russians on things that are detrimental to our national interests, let's talk about it. Like that time Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets asking them to be patient and to hold off on foreign policy decisions until Reagan could be removed. But I guess since isn't talking about how Trump is actually a puppet of the Kremlin, then it's "completely unrelated".

 

You just keep digging your "Whatabout" hole.  Now you bring Ted Kennedy into it for no particular reason.  I don't seem to recall any of these people having their own justice department pursuing an investigation into their campaign for possible collusion.  You seem to keep forgetting that point.  

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Ulric Newbie

Ulric

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33 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

You just keep digging your "Whatabout" hole.  Now you bring Ted Kennedy into it for no particular reason.  I don't seem to recall any of these people having their own justice department pursuing an investigation into their campaign for possible collusion.  You seem to keep forgetting that point.  

 

So we aren't talking about the dangers of our elected officials secretly working with our adversaries to undermine our national interests. The scope of the conversation is specifically about how Trump is working with our adversaries to undermine our national interests, got it.

 

I want to make sure that I'm tracking this correctly. Trump, the populist candidate, was so unpopular that he couldn't have won without outside help from the Russians. The Comey starts sniffing around for collusion, so Trump fires him, triggering a full blown special council investigation into collusion. But it's OK that Trump fired Comey, because Comey used his official position to influence the election which causes Hillary to lose. Does that sound about right?

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Toxn Advanced Member

Toxn

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, Bronezhilet said:

We need a popcorn emote, I need it every time I get up-to-date with this topic.

 

We should have an American politics thread that only non-Americans can post on.

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