politics Post Election Thread: Democracy Dies In Darkness And You Can Help

[T___A]

Trump proviso to Poe's law strikes again:

 

 

[LoooSeR]

Heh, Pussy Riot, political hipster whores. After first scandal about them IIRC Yandex (popular search site in Russia, biggest Google competitor here) highest search option about Pussy Riot was "what it means", lol.

[Collimatrix]

Uh oh, it looks like some people are already tired of all of this winning:
 

 

[Alzoc]

1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

Uh oh, it looks like some people are already tired of all of this winning

 

Well maybe apart from Russia, NK, Israel and Saudi Arabia I guess that almost all the other nations in the world have the same line of though : "The sooner Trump is neutralized the better."

 

Kicking the US out of all multilateral organizations would be a fun sight^^

And I'm sure that Trump would be perfectly Ok with that since he abhor multilateralism, and that it's true that the US is largely funding most of those organizations.

 

Problem is that those multilateral organizations need somebody to enforce the collective rules, and it used to be the US (to their great benefits I may add), but now they want to stop fulfilling that role.

You know what you lose you don't know what you'll get.

 

Now that Trump is methodically destroying US soft power (be it on the monetary system, or through the UN) soon the only thing left will be hard power.

In that configuration China could very well decide to create a casus-belli once they feel that they have amassed enough hard power to take on the US (not too soon I agree).

Easiest way to do that would be to stop buying US debt with an economical war on top of that, that would hit American economy quite hard.

China's economy would be hit badly as well but the public backslash they'll suffer obviously won't be on the same level than in the US.

 

That's both the beauty and the weakness of globalization: Interdependence mean that if somebody does a stupid move, everybody will be affected to various extent thus safekeeping the current world order through mutual deterrence. But if somebody start trashing around like an elephant in a porcelain shop without a care for the consequences global damages will be unavoidable...

 

You could argue that on top of that economical MAD, there is the MAD through nuclear weapons which is still relevant even today, so we may not see a direct conflict but various proxy wars, just like during the cold war (plus maybe various cyber attacks).

 

When that happen I really hope that the EU will have amassed enough power of it's own to remain somewhat neutral, instead of being the prize for the victor or the staging area.

[Collimatrix]

40 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

 

Now that Trump is methodically destroying US soft power (be it on the monetary system, or through the UN) soon the only thing left will be hard power.

In that configuration China could very well decide to create a casus-belli once they feel that they have amassed enough hard power to take on the US (not too soon I agree).

Easiest way to do that would be to stop buying US debt with an economical war on top of that, that would hit American economy quite hard.

China's economy would be hit badly as well but the public backslash they'll suffer obviously won't be on the same level than in the US.

 

I think Trump weakening US soft power institutions is a temporary phenomenon.  The reason he's doing it isn't because he necessarily has some ideological opposition to soft power.  For instance, the video that was shown to the North Korean leadership during the Singapore talks dangled the carrot of integrating North Korea into the world economy so they could enjoy the same legitimacy and prosperity that their neighbors do.

The reason that Trump is at odds with US soft power institutions right now is that they are filled with people who hate his guts and want him gone.  There's a reason I've joked about Trump opening gulags; the US government is full of people openly scheming to get rid of Trump.  Their competence is doubtful, but not their intentions.  Trump will do everything in his power to increase the importance of institutions that are loyal to him at the expense of institutions that try to undermine him.  But this state of affairs cannot last forever.  Either Trump will go away, and things like the State Department and various NGOs will resume some of their former importance, or Trump will prevail and large parts of the US government will be effectively restructured.  Either way, things will change.

[Alzoc]

31 minutes ago, Collimatrix said:

Either way, things will change. 

 

That is, I think, the only thing we can safely assume right now.

 

I can relate to the fact that some of the public institutions that ought to be neutral are politically biased and that it can be annoying at time because they are not here to do politics but to serve the state and the people.

 

I don't know exactly how bad it is in the US (apparently pretty bad if I listen to the members of this forum), but personally I tend to prefer to bear with that kind of (IMO) minor annoyance and to act on it by small touch than a great cleansing at once which could result in a great deal of instability and troubles down the road.

 

I'm not sure how applicable would that analogy be but the political cleansing of the officers in Soviet Russia just before the start of WWII led to a largely ineffective army leading to a great deal of unnecessary losses in the first years of the war. The Soviets ultimately prevailed (having strategical depth is great) but at what cost?

 

My point is that all the soft power being destroyed right now will take a great deal of time to be rebuild and will be unusable in the meantime, Trump or not.

[Walter_Sobchak]

7 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

 

I think Trump weakening US soft power institutions is a temporary phenomenon.  The reason he's doing it isn't because he necessarily has some ideological opposition to soft power.  For instance, the video that was shown to the North Korean leadership during the Singapore talks dangled the carrot of integrating North Korea into the world economy so they could enjoy the same legitimacy and prosperity that their neighbors do.

The reason that Trump is at odds with US soft power institutions right now is that they are filled with people who hate his guts and want him gone.  There's a reason I've joked about Trump opening gulags; the US government is full of people openly scheming to get rid of Trump.  Their competence is doubtful, but not their intentions.  Trump will do everything in his power to increase the importance of institutions that are loyal to him at the expense of institutions that try to undermine him.  But this state of affairs cannot last forever.  Either Trump will go away, and things like the State Department and various NGOs will resume some of their former importance, or Trump will prevail and large parts of the US government will be effectively restructured.  Either way, things will change.

 

That video Trump showed Kim had nothing to do with "soft power" as it relates to nations, it was a tacky bit of salesmanship.  Obviously, Kim did not fall for it.  Soft power comes from being respected.  Right now, most of the world is laughing at us. 

[Ramlaen]

By that standard the world has been laughing at us for some time before Trump became president.

[Walter_Sobchak]

I don't often agree with my congressman, Justin Amash (R MICH).  That said, he seems to be one of the few in congress who actually votes based on his principles.  Anyhow, I thought his tweet today about the Putin/Trump summit summed up my feelings pretty well.

 

Justin Amash

 

✔@justinamash

 

 

A person can be in favor of improving relations with Russia, in favor of meeting with Putin, and still think something is not right here.

11:58 AM - Jul 16, 2018

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[Walter_Sobchak]

1 hour ago, Ramlaen said:

By that standard the world has been laughing at us for some time before Trump became president.

 

Funny, I don't seem to recall seeing massive protests in the streets of our allies when Obama visited.  If anything, he probably relied too much on soft power rather than hard power when dealing with international situations.  Drawing a line in Syria and then backing down did little to impress our adversaries.  That said, he inherited a bit of a foreign policy mess from Bush and his ill conceived adventures in the Middle East.  Bush mucked things up so bad that the international community gave Obama the Nobel Peace prize for simply not being Bush. I can only imagine what accolades the 46th US president will receive for simply not being Donald Trump.

[Lord_James]

8 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

I can only imagine what accolades the 46th US president will receive for simply not being Donald Trump.

 

Except papa Trump won’t be a train wreck of a president, like Bush. 

[Jeeps_Guns_Tanks]

I think Trump made the wrong call on how he handled the Putin situation with the Press, but the Press is acting like a bunch of idiots, if he openly threatens Putin, then he is backed into the same corner Obama got backed into. Plus, he could have come out acting all tough and the press would have spun negatively too. 

 

Besides, Trump has little influence on how the CIA and FBI are handling this stuff, and I'm sure they are doing their best to prevent the Russians from messing around again. Even the corrupt, disgraced, blatantly political,  FBI should be able to handle this one without Trump having to make a policy statement about it. I hope at least, I mean, I still plugging my way through the IG report, and the Agents were either biased and working against Trump, or so grossly incompetent, we need to look at hiring and training standards. 

 

This will all be forgotten in a week when the SCOTUS situation really starts sinking in on the left, they will go back to portraying the milk toast Supreme Court pick as Hitler Jr, and the cycle will roll on. 

 

Has anyone looked into a study to show the left, is, in fact, suffering from much higher rates of mental illness under Trump?

[Walter_Sobchak]

1 hour ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

I think Trump made the wrong call on how he handled the Putin situation with the Press, but the Press is acting like a bunch of idiots, if he openly threatens Putin, then he is backed into the same corner Obama got backed into. Plus, he could have come out acting all tough and the press would have spun negatively too. 

 

Besides, Trump has little influence on how the CIA and FBI are handling this stuff, and I'm sure they are doing their best to prevent the Russians from messing around again. Even the corrupt, disgraced, blatantly political,  FBI should be able to handle this one without Trump having to make a policy statement about it. I hope at least, I mean, I still plugging my way through the IG report, and the Agents were either biased and working against Trump, or so grossly incompetent, we need to look at hiring and training standards. 

 

This will all be forgotten in a week when the SCOTUS situation really starts sinking in on the left, they will go back to portraying the milk toast Supreme Court pick as Hitler Jr, and the cycle will roll on. 

 

Has anyone looked into a study to show the left, is, in fact, suffering from much higher rates of mental illness under Trump?

 

He has certainly been affecting my mental health.  

[Belesarius]

I'm not really sure who Joe Walsh is, aside from not being the guy from the Eagles, and being a former congresscritter. But he had some stuff to say about your President today.

 

https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom

 

 

 

[Ramlaen]

8 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

I'm not really sure who Joe Walsh is

 

An easily rused person.

 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

The only thing I find weird about Trumps visit with Putin is how everyone is surprised that Trump threw his own country under the bus.  Trump said the same crap he has been spewing for months.   Trump loves dictators and he loves Russia.  He hates democracies.  He treats allies like enemies, and enemies like "competitors".   Trump has actually made me nostalgic for Ronald Reagan...

[Ramlaen]

3 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

The only thing I find weird about Trumps visit with Putin is how everyone is surprised that Trump threw his own country under the bus.  Trump said the same crap he has been spewing for months.   Trump loves dictators and he loves Russia.  He hates democracies.  He treats allies like enemies, and enemies like "competitors".   Trump has actually made me nostalgic for Ronald Reagan...

 

I can agree with you that he says the same things he's been saying for months, not so much the rest.

[Mogensthegreat]

 

 

[Toxn]

4 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

The only thing I find weird about Trumps visit with Putin is how everyone is surprised that Trump threw his own country under the bus.  Trump said the same crap he has been spewing for months.   Trump loves dictators and he loves Russia.  He hates democracies.  He treats allies like enemies, and enemies like "competitors".   Trump has actually made me nostalgic for Ronald Reagan...

Is it weird that the more he acts contrarian about traditional US foreign policy, the more I like him?

 

Maybe he can tell Israel and the Saudis to fuck off, then start a tradition of treating every nation as having its own national interest rather than being divided into the immaculately good and the irredeemably bad.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Burn it all down! 

 

Meanwhile the FBI continues to lose it's collective mind (easy with something so small I guess): 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/16/maria-butina-charged-spying-russia-us-doj

 

'Infiltrating the NRA'.....FFS America, do you have any idea how you sound? 

 

16 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

Right now, most of the world is laughing at us. 

 

Yes.....Yes we are. 

 

4 hours ago, Toxn said:

Maybe he can tell Israel and the Saudis to fuck off, then start a tradition of treating every nation as having its own national interest rather than being divided into the immaculately good and the irredeemably bad.

 

If he did you could measure his lifespan in hours.....Israel rules America and Saudi Arabia owns it. 

 

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

7 hours ago, Mogensthegreat said:

 

 

 

what is this crap? 

 

Anyhow, it's a well documented historical fact that the Southern Dixiecrats largely switched allegiance to the Republican party in the civil rights era.

 

Here is the electoral map during the election of 1920

 

 

 

Here is the electoral map in 1964

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure this complete reversal didn't happen by accident.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Quote

Other US states are also raising money for Trump Baby blimps - including

Texas, Missouri, Maryland and New Mexico.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-angry-baby-blimp-is-going-to-america-11438499

 

@Sturgeon  I just bet yours will be bigger! 

 

Meanwhile:

 

Quote

He added: "No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant."

 

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-praises-strong-vladimir-putin-amid-outrage-over-defence-of-russia-11439199

 

Errrr.....

 

 

This whole Russia thing just has you all tied up in knots doesn't it.....Welcome to the Great Game motherfuckers! 

 

[Sturgeon]

17 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

The only thing I find weird about Trumps visit with Putin is how everyone is surprised that Trump threw his own country under the bus.  Trump said the same crap he has been spewing for months.   Trump loves dictators and he loves Russia.  He hates democracies.  He treats allies like enemies, and enemies like "competitors".   Trump has actually made me nostalgic for Ronald Reagan...

 

Watching the Democrats freak out over Trump abandoning US foreign policy conventions has been highly entertaining, especially as they at the same time feel compelled to defend how our foreign policy was done in the past.

[Donward]

10 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

what is this crap? 

 

Anyhow, it's a well documented historical fact that the Southern Dixiecrats largely switched allegiance to the Republican party in the civil rights era.

 

Here is the electoral map during the election of 1920

 

 

 

Here is the electoral map in 1964

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure this complete reversal didn't happen by accident.

The Nixon "Southern Strategy" thing IS a myth.

 

Witness the election results in the South for Carter and Clinton.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The Orange one has 'clarified' his position:

 

"In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word 'would' instead of 'wouldn't," he said.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44864739

 

 

 

.