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Donward

Let's Make Fun of Nazi WW2 Aircraft (While recognizing a couple which were also kind of OK)

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27 minutes ago, Bronezhilet said:

I have to say, Me-410 best plane. It just looks amazing.

The Me-210 was a massive pile of shit though, lemme just quote Wikipedia here:

 

Oh yeah that was fun in IL-2.

>Fly German jet
>Get someone on your six
>Slam power

*boooom*

I tend to fly with the throttles at 80% all the time and then concentrate on maintaining energy and airspeed. Even so, I've had occasions where climbing to altitude was enough to melt an engine.

Jumo 004 = the wurst 

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6 hours ago, Donward said:

The Luftwaffe was pretty much shit when it came to any fighter or bomber that had two engines. 

JU-88 was fine.  Basically the MVP for the entire Luftwaffe.

Their four-engined types were the really structurally dubious ones.

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Thinking about the nickel shortages in germany, I realised something - no nickel means no nichrome for jet engines. They used mild steel, with an aluminium coating, instead! No wonder the german jets never worked. This is probably not news to you aircraft nerds, but I'm amazed that they managed to make a (barely) functioning jet engine with steel turbine blades. The use of aluminium coatings is also odd, and at complete odds with modern thermal barrier coatings (which are insulators)

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1 hour ago, Collimatrix said:

Maybe they were worried about radiant heat hitting the blades and wanted something shiny?

It would give off it's heat faster than plain steel, and at worst act as an ablative coating.

The AEHS  site has a good postwar report on the 004, and notes how the aluminized coating was often melted.

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13 minutes ago, Meplat said:

It would give off it's heat faster than plain steel, and at worst act as an ablative coating.

The AEHS  site has a good postwar report on the 004, and notes how the aluminized coating was often melted.

 

 

I'm not exactly well-versed in jet engine mechanics, but from what I've read the designers put a lot of effort into matching the thermal expansion rates of the blades and the casing to prevent tip losses.  Also, they need to be very careful to design the compressor airfoils such that minor dings and scratches, and any blending used to buff those out, cannot cause compressor blade stall.

 

The idea of ablative thermal coating seems... not exactly compatible with the above.

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That was an "at worst"  application of the coating, since it seems to have been a very common occurrence.

Again, more likely than not it was a protective coating for the turbine blades that would help with keeping the mild steel "core" from developing localized hotspots, or similar. 

 

The compressor blades (IIRC) were not coated, just the hot section.  You also found aluminum or aluminum based coatings on the controllable exhaust cone.

 

Here's a good read on both the plane and the mill, written in '45.  Seems the Germans also messed with Zinc (galvanized) and Ceramic coatings (the Ceramic coated components are the ones that seemed to burn off readily). 

http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/Me262/Me262_draft.pdf

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On 27.12.2017 at 6:17 PM, Xlucine said:

Thinking about the nickel shortages in germany, I realised something - no nickel means no nichrome for jet engines. They used mild steel, with an aluminium coating, instead! No wonder the german jets never worked. This is probably not news to you aircraft nerds, but I'm amazed that they managed to make a (barely) functioning jet engine with steel turbine blades. The use of aluminium coatings is also odd, and at complete odds with modern thermal barrier coatings (which are insulators)

 

The first post in this threat which cought the right idea. Actually I wrote my final Thesis about the German "Rüstungswunder" that never was. And the really impressing points weren`t the mythological wonderweapons or what ever you would consider a wheraboos wet dreams. What was impressing for me where the maybe not so perfect things wihch were accomplished despite the complete fuck up of an Economy dominated by cartel`s and oligopols and a severe lack of ressources which were especially important in the metallurgy. 
Finding flaws in German wartime designs and especially the produced vehicles apart from their paper design ( well there is a difference between what can be invented and drawn and what can be produced under these circumstances) is like hitting a barn door with birdshot from 10 feet (damn you Imperiealmeasuremnts). The interesting story isn`t about how superior german  equipment was, because it wasn`t, the interesting story is what was accomplished despite the situation.
Take the already mentioned Jumo 04 as an example. That thing was faaaaar from perfect but still better or comparable to other Turbojet Engines of it`s time (talking of `40-`43
). And even past 1943 the german jet engine development didn`t fall behind but they failed in realizing these projects because of the slightly different conditions in germany compared to the US or UK. And even if they could have been build the could not have been powered by good wishes an nazi faith.

Personally I started to distinguish between judging the fielded material and the design itself a long time ago and besides that, comparissions between late war equipment from germany and equipment especially from the US is...a case for captain obvious !?!

well, now I`m curious if i get called out a wheraboo because not blowing the horn in the contrary way...

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On 12/29/2017 at 8:01 AM, Jägerlein said:

And even past 1943 the german jet engine development didn`t fall behind but they failed in realizing these projects because of the slightly different conditions in germany compared to the US or UK.

Well, I see we're off to a good start when it comes to understatements in 2018...

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On 12/28/2017 at 6:01 PM, Jägerlein said:

 

The first post in this threat which cought the right idea. Actually I wrote my final Thesis about the German "Rüstungswunder" that never was. And the really impressing points weren`t the mythological wonderweapons or what ever you would consider a wheraboos wet dreams. What was impressing for me where the maybe not so perfect things wihch were accomplished despite the complete fuck up of an Economy dominated by cartel`s and oligopols and a severe lack of ressources which were especially important in the metallurgy. 
Finding flaws in German wartime designs and especially the produced vehicles apart from their paper design ( well there is a difference between what can be invented and drawn and what can be produced under these circumstances) is like hitting a barn door with birdshot from 10 feet (damn you Imperiealmeasuremnts). The interesting story isn`t about how superior german  equipment was, because it wasn`t, the interesting story is what was accomplished despite the situation.
Take the already mentioned Jumo 04 as an example. That thing was faaaaar from perfect but still better or comparable to other Turbojet Engines of it`s time (talking of `40-`43
). And even past 1943 the german jet engine development didn`t fall behind but they failed in realizing these projects because of the slightly different conditions in germany compared to the US or UK. And even if they could have been build the could not have been powered by good wishes an nazi faith.

Personally I started to distinguish between judging the fielded material and the design itself a long time ago and besides that, comparissions between late war equipment from germany and equipment especially from the US is...a case for captain obvious !?!

well, now I`m curious if i get called out a wheraboo because not blowing the horn in the contrary way...

 

No, but you're understating said difference in "conditions".. The U.S. could actually manufacture quality en-masse, and the Brits had enough flexibility to allow people like Whittle (or Turing) to assist their war effort. 

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