Jump to content
Sturgeon's House
Sign in to follow this  
chebuRUSHka

Rh-105 penetration capabilities

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I was wondering what were the Rh-105 penetration capabilities with 60s and 70s ammo?

This is the only information i found thus far:

1487499193-trilateral-evaluation-1974-19

Thank you sovngard! 

130mm @ 60° @ 2000m

150mm @ 60° @ 800m

What about 100m and 1000m? What about 0°?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

That's this gun, right?  The super thick walled 105mm smoothbore mounted on the Leo 1.5:

 

QzT658f.jpg

Yes. That tank was called Keiler. There was also a version with the 120mm L44. The interesting characteristic about the Keiler was its power-to-weight ratio. At only 40 tonnes this tank was  carrying the mighty 1500hp engine from the Leo2, resulting in 37.5 hp/t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, chebuRUSHka said:

Yes. That tank was called Keiler. There was also a version with the 120mm L44. The interesting characteristic about the Keiler was its power-to-weight ratio. At only 40 tonnes this tank was  carrying the mighty 1500hp engine from the Leo2, resulting in 37.5 hp/t.

It was armed with a 105 mm smoothbore gun and it was powered by the MB 872 Ka-500 engine developping up to 1250 horsepower, the Keiler weighed likely as much as the Leopard 2K prototypes ; between 46 800 kg and 50 500 kg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sovngard said:

It was armed with a 105 mm smoothbore gun and it was powered by the MB 872 Ka-500 engine developping up to 1250 horsepower, the Keiler weighed likely as much as the Leopard 2K prototypes ; between 46 800 kg and 50 500 kg.

Like i wrote there were different versions:

leo2_proto120_ExperimentalEntwicklung_Ke

Kampfpanzer_Leopard-2_Prototyp_Glattrohr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, these are two different tanks. Also note that there is not one Rh 105 gun, the name has been used for various different guns, but not officially for the gun you seem to be interested in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, chebuRUSHka said:

Like i wrote there were different versions:

Two Keiler prototypes were produced from october 1969 and were trialed in 1970 :

1487792913-leo2-ex.jpg

 

 A total of sixteen Leopard 2K prototypes were produced and tested between 1972 and 1975, seven of them were fitted with a 120 mm smoothbore gun :

1487792920-leo2-proto120-2.jpg

 

24 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

Also note that there is not one Rh 105 gun, the name has been used for various different guns, but not officially for the gun you seem to be interested in.

I would add that this is family of five 105 mm rifled guns, with designations ranging from Rh 105-11 to Rh 105-60.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Xlucine said:

This is all the formula anyone could ever need for APFSDS against homogeneous materials:

http://www.longrods.ch/

All you need is the length and diameter, as the muzzle velocity is given in the chart sovngard posted

Hello, thanks for your reply.

I know that site, but unfortunately there is no formula I'm aware of, which works for all penetrators. There are some formulas which work for modern sabots, but not for sabots from the 60s. Are you sure longrods.ch can handle 60s/early-70s sabots?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

APDS is outside the scope of that equation, but with a L:D ratio greater than 4 willi claims that the equation is accurate. Any APFSDS round ought to be into the hydrodynamic range, barring the weird stuff with tungsten tips and a steel body. If the 105mm gun in question fired non-homogeneous penetrators, then extrapolating from the russian non-eroding APFSDS is your best bet - it should be somewhat applicable to the demarre equations

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chebuRUSHka said:

Fair enough. For me the Leopard 2K is just a rebrand. I fail to see any substantial difference besides the gun.

Different engine compartment in order to fit the new MB 873 Ka-500 engine (1500 hp) and its HSWL 354 transmission, type 570 tracks instead of the type 635.

On 21/02/2017 at 5:23 PM, chebuRUSHka said:

I was wondering what were the Rh-105 penetration capabilities with 60s and 70s ammo?

I have a table listing the performance of a dozen of APFSDS ammunition against NATO targets at given ranges.

I'll post it later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/22/2017 at 0:41 PM, SH_MM said:

No, these are two different tanks. Also note that there is not one Rh 105 gun, the name has been used for various different guns, but not officially for the gun you seem to be interested in.

What was this gun actually called?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Xlucine
      Or more specifically, why don't they burst? You have huge pressures behind them, they're thin and not really solidly fixed in place, and yet they are expected to stay intact - how?
       
      Me and colli were discussing this on TS yesterday, and there's no way inertia of the firing pin could be providing meaningful support - from squinting at a pressure Vs time graph of a 30.06, and assuming the firing pin can be modelled as a piston of radius ~1mm acted on by the chamber pressure, the applied impulse is on the order of kgms-1. So that firing in should be moving backwards at a considerable velocity, given the light weight, and over the ~1millisecond of the firing process it should move several mm back - yet primers retain the impression of the firing pin after firing. The peak force applied was on the order of kN, so I'd be very surprised if the firing pin spring was providing enough of a force to resist this
    • By Molota_477
      M1 CATTB
      pic from TankNet.
      I feel uncertain whether its cannon's caliber was 140mm or not, I found a figure at the document AD-A228 389 showed behind, which label the gun as LW 120.But in many ways I've found its data in websites all considered to be 140mm.

      AFAIK,the first xm291(140)demonstrator was based on xm1 tank, and the successor was the''Thumper'' which was fitted with a new turret look like the CATTB but still m1a1 hull(Maybe it was CATTB's predecessor? )

      I will really appreciate if anyone have valuable information to share
    • By Bronezhilet
      First off, notice the "might" in the title. It is not yet known what exactly happened. What I'll be talking about is something I heard from someone close to the people involved. It might turn out to be not true, or it might be true. To be sure we have to wait for the official report of the investigation.
       
      Second, it might seem I am attacking the victims of the accident, this is not the case. But if they made mistakes, I will point them out.
       
       
      So most of you have probably already heard of the accident with the M18 Hellcat. What I have heard from people close, is that the round went off when they opened the breech after a misfire, or slightly after they opened the breech. So, a misfire huh. Nasty stuff when it involves explosives.
       
      So, what happened?
       
      Well, misfires happen. There's nothing strange about that. I assume a lot of you have experienced misfires with small arms, and you know the procedure of dealing with them. But with misfires like these are handled (completely) differently. I asked around a bit, and apparently the gunner waited a few minutes after the misfire before he opened the breech. This is good, but not good enough. Not by a long shot. If I remember correctly, when your small arms firearm misfires you keep the barrel pointing down range for at least 30 seconds. After 30 seconds you can safely assume the round will not go off by itself. It's different when a proper amount of explosives is involved. You do not wait 30 seconds.
       
      You wait at least 30 minutes. But between a misfire and waiting is another step. But I don't know if that step is possible on a Hellcat. More modern tank guns have two firing systems. The normal one, and an emergency one. If there was a misfire you were supposed to try the emergency firing system next, and if that didn't work: Time to wait.
       
      After waiting 30 minutes there are two things you can do. The first is to open the breech and check everything. Carry the round to a safe place, and blow it up. This is usually what you can do with normal, proper rounds. But in this case, with more shady ammunition I would go for option two: Call Ordnance. There are multiple things that could be wrong with the round, and I'm go out on a limb here and claim that the gunner did not have Ordnance training. In the military, if something goes wrong, Ordnance immediately becomes the supervisor of everything that happens. There might be Generals running around, but that mere Sarge (or whatever rank they have in the US) is in charge.
      This is what Ordnance would most likely do:
      - Establish what round is actually in the gun. Is it an original WW2 round, or is it aftermarket? What primer did they use? What powder? Is it an AP shell, or HE? Does the shell have a fuse? If yes, what type of fuse?
      - Try to establish what happened with the round before it went into the gun. How was it stored? Did you put it in your shed, or in a bunker with AC?
      This is all to determine one thing: Is the round stable? In other words: Can I move the round?
       
      If the round is determined to be stable, Ordnance can do two things.
      1. Open the breech from a safe distance, and making sure the round will be caught before it hits something. Considering an historic piece of equipment is involved, this can result in the best possible ending. Which is a round being ejected without problems. But it is possible that the round will detonate inside the vehicle, destroying the tank and sending shrapnel all over the place. For Ordnance, the problem isn't the tank being nuked, it's the shrapnel.
       
      2. Remove the gun from the turret and move it to a safe place. Ordnance will put at least three shaped charges on the outside of the chamber. One aimed at the primer, one aimed at the propellant and the last one aimed at the shell itself. The whole barrel will then be covered with several tons of dirt and the charges detonated. Voila, another safe ending to a dangerous situation. The gun is properly ruined, but nobody is hurt (except maybe some feelings).
       
      I'm assuming that the gunner knew how to handle firearms and various weapons. He had fired the gun before, he knows how it works. He might not have much experience with misfires, but he does know that he should wait a bit before opening the breech. But at this point, it's not a round you have in the gun. It's not a misfired round. It's not a nuisance. It's a faulty round.
      It's an explosive. It intends to kill. And it intends to kill you. And it intends to kill you immediately.
       
      Treat it as such. Don't touch anything. Sod off to a safe place. Call Ordnance.
×
×
  • Create New...