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The Aircraft Carrier Shitstorm Thread

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So, something nobody's mentioned is that Chinese air-launched cruise missile threats are nowhere near as dangerous as those posed by the Soviets -- they've got fewer, slower, shorter-ranged launch platforms with smaller, slower missiles, and the US Navy developed extremely effective methods of countering the threat of land-based air power during the Global War Game series -- they determined that the more aggressively a carrier group is fought, as long as there are two or three mutually supporting CV(N)s present, even in confined waters like those of the Norwegian Sea, the more likely it is to survive -- the number of missile carriers and missiles is comparatively limited and the adversary is unable to produce more in a timely manner, while the USN can fairly quickly replace lost aircraft and aircrews, and the quality of the US Navy's integrated air defense system is second-to-none. Furthermore, the USN has only improved it's air defense capabilities since the late-1980s, with the wider fielding of Aegis-equipped ships and the Mark 41 GMLS. The DDG-51 and ESSM revolutionized the US Navy, and ESSM Block II will further advance the ability of the average naval vessel to kill air threats. 

 

Oh, also, if you try to fight a light carrier like a CdG or Kuznetsov or what have you like it's a fleet carrier, you'll get killed. The sortie generation rate, speed, and sustainability of the lighter carriers is disproportionately smaller than the cost savings, to the point of breaking the price-performance curve in the wrong direction (IE they have a relatively very high price for their decidedly lackluster performance). 

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42 minutes ago, A. T. Mahan said:

So, something nobody's mentioned is that Chinese air-launched cruise missile threats are nowhere near as dangerous as those posed by the Soviets -- they've got fewer, slower, shorter-ranged launch platforms with smaller, slower missiles, and the US Navy developed extremely effective methods of countering the threat of land-based air power during the Global War Game series -- they determined that the more aggressively a carrier group is fought, as long as there are two or three mutually supporting CV(N)s present, even in confined waters like those of the Norwegian Sea, the more likely it is to survive -- the number of missile carriers and missiles is comparatively limited and the adversary is unable to produce more in a timely manner, while the USN can fairly quickly replace lost aircraft and aircrews, and the quality of the US Navy's integrated air defense system is second-to-none. Furthermore, the USN has only improved it's air defense capabilities since the late-1980s, with the wider fielding of Aegis-equipped ships and the Mark 41 GMLS. The DDG-51 and ESSM revolutionized the US Navy, and ESSM Block II will further advance the ability of the average naval vessel to kill air threats. 

 

Oh, also, if you try to fight a light carrier like a CdG or Kuznetsov or what have you like it's a fleet carrier, you'll get killed. The sortie generation rate, speed, and sustainability of the lighter carriers is disproportionately smaller than the cost savings, to the point of breaking the price-performance curve in the wrong direction (IE they have a relatively very high price for their decidedly lackluster performance). 

Good to see some activity in Naval threads. Nice to have some more knowledgeable naval posters contributing to SH.

 

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As @N-L-M so succinctly put it on the previous page (paraphrased):

 

bigger carriers mean better carriers (among other things). 

 

IIRC, the Nimitz and Gerald R. Ford can carry circa 90 aircraft comfortably whilst the next largest foreign carriers can barely scratch 40 aircraft overloaded. This, combined with the sortie rate of these super carriers puts the US CVs in a league of their own, with practically no competition. 

 

 

Also, @Belesarius, I also like naval discussion, mostly concerning WWII ships, though I’m not very knowledgeable. I’m actually quite enthralled (at the moment) with French Destroyer philosophy, with 3 different “classes”: Destroyer Leaders (Mogador and Aigle classes); standard torpedo DDs (Bourrasque and Le Hardi classes); and fleet torpedo boats (La Melpomene class). Only problem for me is I can’t find/don’t know reputable sources, and I can’t read French. 

 

German DDs are also pretty cool too, with the occasional 150mm gun thrown in for flair :) 

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2 hours ago, A. T. Mahan said:

The German DDs are an absolute mess and were not good seaboats  in the best of times

 

I never said anything about effectiveness, just that they’re interesting :) 

 

Torpedoboot austland conversions are also an interest of mine. 

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5 hours ago, A. T. Mahan said:

So, something nobody's mentioned is that Chinese air-launched cruise missile threats are nowhere near as dangerous as those posed by the Soviets -- they've got fewer, slower, shorter-ranged launch platforms with smaller, slower missiles, and the US Navy developed extremely effective methods of countering the threat of land-based air power during the Global War Game series -- they determined that the more aggressively a carrier group is fought, as long as there are two or three mutually supporting CV(N)s present, even in confined waters like those of the Norwegian Sea, the more likely it is to survive -- the number of missile carriers and missiles is comparatively limited and the adversary is unable to produce more in a timely manner, while the USN can fairly quickly replace lost aircraft and aircrews, and the quality of the US Navy's integrated air defense system is second-to-none. Furthermore, the USN has only improved it's air defense capabilities since the late-1980s, with the wider fielding of Aegis-equipped ships and the Mark 41 GMLS. The DDG-51 and ESSM revolutionized the US Navy, and ESSM Block II will further advance the ability of the average naval vessel to kill air threats. 

 

Oh, also, if you try to fight a light carrier like a CdG or Kuznetsov or what have you like it's a fleet carrier, you'll get killed. The sortie generation rate, speed, and sustainability of the lighter carriers is disproportionately smaller than the cost savings, to the point of breaking the price-performance curve in the wrong direction (IE they have a relatively very high price for their decidedly lackluster performance).  

 

2-3 mutually supporting supercarriers is probably in the top 10 largest airforces by numbers of deployable fast jets

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3 hours ago, Xlucine said:

 

2-3 mutually supporting supercarriers is probably in the top 10 largest airforces by numbers of deployable fast jets

There is an infographic somewhere showing that the  U.S. Navy is the second largest airforce in the world.

Fucking with a CBG is a sure way to get large volumes of poop, shoved in.

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7 hours ago, Meplat said:

There is an infographic somewhere showing that the  U.S. Navy is the second largest airforce in the world.

Fucking with a CBG is a sure way to get large volumes of poop, shoved in.

In a fighters-only comparison the US navy is something like the fourth largest (after the USAF, China and Russia).

 

It still speaks to the sheer size of your military that you can slice the numbers like that.

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