Israeli AFVs

[Mighty_Zuk]

Yep, it's Trophy alright. 

 

 

Looking good!

 

Note: The smoke grenade launcher was removed and the gap that was usually taken by it was filled with armor. 

Notice the gap:

 

Shame they didn't take the opportunity to make a more serious overhaul. The Mark 3 could probably use a little rearrangement in its frontal section, some weight reduction wherever possible, and an improved frontal armor on the hull. I know it's more needed on the sides, but it can't be very economical to have the engine frequently damaged.

[LoooSeR]

15 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Yep, it's Trophy alright. 

 

 

Looking good!

 

Note: The smoke grenade launcher was removed and the gap that was usually taken by it was filled with armor. 

Notice the gap:

 

Shame they didn't take the opportunity to make a more serious overhaul. The Mark 3 could probably use a little rearrangement in its frontal section, some weight reduction wherever possible, and an improved frontal armor on the hull. I know it's more needed on the sides, but it can't be very economical to have the engine frequently damaged.

Can you re-upload a first picture? For some reason i have 404 error now

[Mighty_Zuk]

3 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

Can you re-upload a first picture? For some reason i have 404 error now

Is that better now?

[LoooSeR]

2 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Is that better now?

No, apperently this whole site is blocked or something.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Changed domain. Hopefully this time it works.

[LoooSeR]

7 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Changed domain. Hopefully this time it works.

Thanks.

[Lox]

A bit more historically themed - a Magach (6?) Of the 46th battalion during the 1982 Lebanon war sporting dual coax 50 cals

 

[Zyklon]

2 hours ago, Lox said:

A bit more historically themed - a Magach (6?) Of the 46th battalion during the 1982 Lebanon war sporting dual coax 50 cals

 

 

Welcome to SH old friend! 

[Belesarius]

3 hours ago, Lox said:

A bit more historically themed - a Magach (6?) Of the 46th battalion during the 1982 Lebanon war sporting dual coax 50 cals

 

Welcome to SH.

 

[Lox]

1 hour ago, Zyklon said:

 

Welcome to SH old friend! 

 

7 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Welcome to SH.

 

Ty ya'll

[Lox]

For you Zy, upper is a Nagmpodon, lower is a Nagmachon

[Mighty_Zuk]

There was a big demonstration of all sorts of technologies today to the IDF, of tech that will soon enter service (not just experimental stuff). As usual, the new artillery piece was not shown, because Elbit are still keeping it under covers, but they chose to give us, the peasants, some news:

 

The new howitzer will be built in an initial batch of 100 vehicles and will be based on a wheeled chassis. Follow-on howitzers may be based on tracked vehicles. 

Now, I don't quite remember the exact numbers, but if I'm not wrong, there are, in the IDF:

4 artillery brigades - 2 active, 2 reserve.

Each brigade consists of 4 battalion of howitzers each.

The 2 active brigades are both split with 2 active battalions and 2 reserve battalions in each of them.

This puts us at 4 active battalions, and 12 reserve battalions.

 

So there are:

Active - 72 howitzers.

Reserve - 216 howitzers.

 

Each howitzer will be manned by a yet undetermined number of crewmen ranging from 3 to 5, and an overall reduction of 25% to 40% is envisioned, though yet unclear whether it refers to manpower, vehicles, or both. 

My assumption is that each vehicle will be manned by 3 men, while another 2 (for a total of 5) will be in the ammo carrier vehicle. This is because it's normal to say the M109 has a crew of 9 to 11 (9 in the vehicle, and 2 in the resupply vehicle).

 

It is assumed that the typical battalion will reduce to 12 vehicles from 18, so a batch of 100 vehicles will be enough to fully equip 8 battalions, which are 2 whole brigades. And another 4 vehicles will be left for testing and demonstrations. 

 

And of course, it's likely the 2nd batch of 100 vehicles, which will complete the transition of the artillery corps to a new howitzer, will be based on a tracked platform. If that will be the case, the wheeled platforms will be transferred to the reservists, and the tracked platforms will take their place in the active brigades.

 

This is a good move for 2 main reasons:

1)Tracked howitzers are only needed for maneuver combat. With a total of 192 howitzers (after the transition), hardly half will be required to maneuver anywhere. So it would be ideal if the reservists will have a system that will be easier and cheaper to maintain. A wheeled platform cuts down expenses tremendously.

2)Wheeled platforms are easier and faster to make, not only cheaper. So it would allow the IDF to re-equip its artillery forces before the M109 turn into rust buckets. I mean, they already are. 

 

And because this has been an unpleasant wall of text, have some pictures:

 

Bunch of Namers amid a Golani brigade exercise along with the 188th armored brigade, in which a Mark 3 tank with a Trophy system was also showcased for the first time.

 

Eitan, of course. Just an optical illusion though. It's not really that big.

 

Namer with its new turret with 30mm gun, 2 Spike LR2 missiles, a 60mm mortar, a Trophy APS, and a damn good look.

 

120mm low recoil mortar on a light 4x4 platform:

 

[Scolopax]

9 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

 

 

Eitan, of course. Just an optical illusion though. It's not really that big.

 

I'm not exactly convinced

[2805662]

It’s bigger, of course. 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Judging by the watermark, this one is just an experimental kit.

 

 

[LoooSeR]

10 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Judging by the watermark, this one is just an experimental kit.

 

 

lol, for some reason waronline is banned for me. The Dark Lord Pu don't want me to see them,  

[Serge]

49 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Judging by the watermark, this one is just an experimental kit.

 

 

Fuel barrel is a must have. 

[Mighty_Zuk]

Just for you Looser I will upload to my blog and post here. Don't worry. 

 

EDIT: fixed.

[Newtonk]

Hello all, 

 

first time poster here, looking for a little help with a cruel lady, please.... I need a photo of the engine bay of an Achzarit where the engine is removed; if anyone has a shot they can share, I’d appreciate it. I’m particularly interested in the teaching model of the Achzarit at the Golani Brigade training base, please. I did try several modelling forums before posting here.

 

thanks in advance,

 

Kylie

[Mighty_Zuk]

5 hours ago, Newtonk said:

Hello all, 

 

first time poster here, looking for a little help with a cruel lady, please.... I need a photo of the engine bay of an Achzarit where the engine is removed; if anyone has a shot they can share, I’d appreciate it. I’m particularly interested in the teaching model of the Achzarit at the Golani Brigade training base, please. I did try several modelling forums before posting here.

 

thanks in advance,

 

Kylie

I've done quite a bit of searching and found nothing. And if modelling forums couldn't help you, I don't think anyone can. 

Maybe try these books:

http://www.deserteagle-publishing.com/books.html

 

Their author, Michael Mass, is Israel's main historian on armored vehicles and the head of Israel's tank museum in Latrun.

 

I will also try looking up in a forum I know, but if that book doesn't have it, then the chances are slim to none.

[Karamazov]

7 hours ago, Newtonk said:

Hello all, 

 

first time poster here, looking for a little help with a cruel lady, please.... I need a photo of the engine bay of an Achzarit where the engine is removed; if anyone has a shot they can share, I’d appreciate it. I’m particularly interested in the teaching model of the Achzarit at the Golani Brigade training base, please. I did try several modelling forums before posting here.

 

thanks in advance,

 

Kylie

This is what i have. These photos were taken at the Latrun Armored Corps Museum in Israel(not by me). The tank shown in this walk around is a prototype. It does not represent accurately the fielded units.

 

 

[Mighty_Zuk]

The cabinet approved this evening (11.03.18) an MoD and IDF plan for strengthening the ground arm, which includes 2 main projects that were decided in the Gideon multi-year plan (2015-2020): The purchase of 'hundreds' of Eitan combat vehicles, and the development of a new self propelled howitzer.

 

Eitan

On the Eitan, it was said it would enter service with the Nahal light infantry brigade in 2019, and will steadily start replacing M113 in 2020. Nahal was chosen to lead the Eitan project by being the first to test it. 

MANTAK say the Eitan will be the world's most advanced and protected wheeled combat vehicle, basing itself on technologies developed for the Merkava and Namer, and being designed with an open architecture to allow easy integration of upgrades in the future.

And its main advantage over the Namer would be its rapid rate of production.

 

MoD and IDF refrained from telling how many vehicles exactly will they need, which may be due to the fact that they have yet to see how much the budget allows them. Ideally, it would replace the M113 in as many roles as possible, while in some roles a light armored vehicle, preferably the JLTV, would replace the M113. 

 

The plan spans a decade, so even if the production rate of the Eitan is similar to the Namer, we can expect at least 300 vehicles. But it won't be, and will likely be twice as fast, which could mean north of 600 vehicles. Of course, many of them will not be frontline vehicles. 

 

MoD's contract with RAFAEL includes ~1,000 Trophy systems, of which ~90 will go to Merkava 3 tanks, ~600 will be evenly split between Merkava 4 and Namer vehicles, which leaves ~300 for the Eitan over the course of a decade. 

Admittedly, the IDF was only supposed to present its recommendations for an APS (Iron Fist or Trophy) in January 2018, which is long after the contract with RAFAEL was signed, so it remains until the 2018 fiscal report to understand how many more Trophy-equipped Eitans will we see.

 

SPH

MoD approves the continued project to develop and produce the next generation howitzer for the IDF, and promises that within the following decade, the IDF ground arm will undergo a revolution. 

Indeed, the howitzers are long overdue, and should have been produced and enter service over a decade ago! But budget cuts happened. Thankfully, the Gideon plan seems to be on track from start to end.

 

Oddly, as opposed to other programs in the IDF, the new howitzer entered prototype stage a while ago and begun test firing as well, without the public knowing the Hebrew name of the system, or seeing a prototype. The Eitan, Namer, Carmel, and Barak, were all named at the very early stages of their program and prototypes/concepts were shown very early on as well.

The fact that the IDF has only very recently concluded it would be best for it to make a first batch of wheeled howitzers shows the development program is still lagging behind, and Elbit's promises to get the system ready within half a year to one and a half years (in the worst case), were broken.

 

It is however important to understand that Elbit is now tasked with 2 development programs - 1 for a wheeled howitzer, 1 for a tracked howitzer. 

 

The news here, are that the project can now proceed as planned. It was previously stalled as the MoD had to review it for fears of corruption, and due to a new law that calls for routine program reviews for deals worth 100 million NIS and 400 million NIS, each with different parameters set for the reviews.

 

Now, considering the fact that they claim a decade will be needed for the full (?) transition, and the facts that today there are ~300 howitzers in service, of which 100 will be cut as the new ones will be able to more than compensate for the lower numbers, we're looking at a production rate of roughly 20 units per year. A more precise figure would likely be 24 howitzers, which would equate to 2 battalions per year, or if there are any plans to produce new dedicated ammo carriers, then 12 howitzers and 6-12 carriers which would equate to 1 battalion.

 

Source:

https://www.inn.co.il/News/News.aspx/368213

[Newtonk]

Thank you, gents; I appreciate the effort and the info. And I have the book mentioned; it is what inspired me to do the build I’m working on. 

 

Best regards, 

 

kylie 

[asaf]

20 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

The cabinet approved this evening (11.03.18) an MoD and IDF plan for strengthening the ground arm, which includes 2 main projects that were decided in the Gideon multi-year plan (2015-2020): The purchase of 'hundreds' of Eitan combat vehicles, and the development of a new self propelled howitzer.

 

Eitan

On the Eitan, it was said it would enter service with the Nahal light infantry brigade in 2019, and will steadily start replacing M113 in 2020. Nahal was chosen to lead the Eitan project by being the first to test it. 

MANTAK say the Eitan will be the world's most advanced and protected wheeled combat vehicle, basing itself on technologies developed for the Merkava and Namer, and being designed with an open architecture to allow easy integration of upgrades in the future.

And its main advantage over the Namer would be its rapid rate of production.

 

MoD and IDF refrained from telling how many vehicles exactly will they need, which may be due to the fact that they have yet to see how much the budget allows them. Ideally, it would replace the M113 in as many roles as possible, while in some roles a light armored vehicle, preferably the JLTV, would replace the M113. 

 

The plan spans a decade, so even if the production rate of the Eitan is similar to the Namer, we can expect at least 300 vehicles. But it won't be, and will likely be twice as fast, which could mean north of 600 vehicles. Of course, many of them will not be frontline vehicles. 

 

MoD's contract with RAFAEL includes ~1,000 Trophy systems, of which ~90 will go to Merkava 3 tanks, ~600 will be evenly split between Merkava 4 and Namer vehicles, which leaves ~300 for the Eitan over the course of a decade. 

Admittedly, the IDF was only supposed to present its recommendations for an APS (Iron Fist or Trophy) in January 2018, which is long after the contract with RAFAEL was signed, so it remains until the 2018 fiscal report to understand how many more Trophy-equipped Eitans will we see.

 

SPH

MoD approves the continued project to develop and produce the next generation howitzer for the IDF, and promises that within the following decade, the IDF ground arm will undergo a revolution. 

Indeed, the howitzers are long overdue, and should have been produced and enter service over a decade ago! But budget cuts happened. Thankfully, the Gideon plan seems to be on track from start to end.

 

Oddly, as opposed to other programs in the IDF, the new howitzer entered prototype stage a while ago and begun test firing as well, without the public knowing the Hebrew name of the system, or seeing a prototype. The Eitan, Namer, Carmel, and Barak, were all named at the very early stages of their program and prototypes/concepts were shown very early on as well.

The fact that the IDF has only very recently concluded it would be best for it to make a first batch of wheeled howitzers shows the development program is still lagging behind, and Elbit's promises to get the system ready within half a year to one and a half years (in the worst case), were broken.

 

It is however important to understand that Elbit is now tasked with 2 development programs - 1 for a wheeled howitzer, 1 for a tracked howitzer. 

 

The news here, are that the project can now proceed as planned. It was previously stalled as the MoD had to review it for fears of corruption, and due to a new law that calls for routine program reviews for deals worth 100 million NIS and 400 million NIS, each with different parameters set for the reviews.

 

Now, considering the fact that they claim a decade will be needed for the full (?) transition, and the facts that today there are ~300 howitzers in service, of which 100 will be cut as the new ones will be able to more than compensate for the lower numbers, we're looking at a production rate of roughly 20 units per year. A more precise figure would likely be 24 howitzers, which would equate to 2 battalions per year, or if there are any plans to produce new dedicated ammo carriers, then 12 howitzers and 6-12 carriers which would equate to 1 battalion.

 

Source:

https://www.inn.co.il/News/News.aspx/368213

https://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-ministry-approves-new-armored-vehicles-for-idf/

[Steelninja333]

BTW does anyone have sources on Merkava 1 turret armour?