Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Couple more of the Mk.3-based Ofek    

Consider the geometry of actual armor without ignoring the LFP. In addition, the mass of the ammo is almost insignificant (25 kg per round and 40 or so rounds in the hull is 1 ton, vs 2 tons each

Something interesting about Merkava III's armor protection(in Chinese): Some of these images are come from Chinese course book《装甲防护技术基础》(The basic technology of armor protection), and others are

Update: The turret does have an ATGM. It's just concealed.

A dual missile launcher exists in the center rear, below an elevatable hatch.

 

It would be nice if it'd be the Spike LR II with its greatly enhanced precision strike capability, but I maintain my opinion that it will not have a great effect on the realistic capabilities of the Namer, if the Namer is used the way it is already being used.

Link to post
Share on other sites

New images.

Turret details:

19538260.jpg

 

Clockwise from the top:

1) Commander's sight.

2) Dual missile launcher.

3) 4x Trophy radar.

4) 60mm mortar.

5) Gunner's sight.

6) 30-40mm cannon with dual feed, 400 bullets.

7) Smoke grenades.

8) Coaxial machine gun 7.62mm, 700 bullets.

 

Illustration on the Eitan. Presentation had low res unfortunately:

26275047.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE:

In light of a low profile "scandal" in the Artillery acquisition program, to replace the M109 with an Elbit's solution, a commission was set in May this year, to debate the issue as well as the future needs of the artillery corps. Among the topics were also the number of artillery pieces eventually required by the IDF, in this 1.5 billion dollar program (likely price for first batches, as usual).

On 03/08/17, the commission brought its recommendations to the Minister of Defense and were approved. 

 

The recommendations were not released and are still classified, however it is assumed that some of them were to go ahead with Elbit's proposal and not renew the bid, in which South Korean and German firms were also involved, in cooperation with Israeli companies IMI and IAI. 

 

Approval of the recommendation allows to continue the development work of the Elbit's artillery piece, to be constructed in Soltam facilities in Israel.

 

Reasons for the necessity of the commission, brought by other Israeli defense companies (IAI and IMI) and various sources:

  • Elbit's solution is still developmental and not yet fielded elsewhere, whereas their solutions are proven and fielded, or no longer developmental.
  • Their solutions technically do meet all IDF's requirements for an artillery system, thus should not be so quickly disqualified.
  • The IMoD was not transparent with them on several topics including the decision to disqualify them.
  • Meanwhile the IMoD had been in constant talks with Elbit without the knowledge of these companies, and while the process with them was practically frozen due to lack of communication on IMoD's part.

 

TL;DR

The plan to equip the IDF with cannon artillery has been approved and embedded into the Gideon multi-year plan. However there's something fishy in this program, and I would not be surprised if we'll hear a corruption case eventually.

Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE:

Israel may have opted for Elbit as a sole contractor for its future cannon artillery system because of a widely accepted ban on cluster munitions, according to a Ha'aretz report. The report says that Germany could ban the use of cluster munitions via its artillery system. 

 

I say we take this with a grain of salt, but here are a few things to keep in mind:

  • MAFAT (Israel's equivalent of DARPA) has officially said that one of the concerns, perhaps the main one, regarding a foreign system is the chance of embargo (whether on the system itself or munitions use).
  • Israel is not a signatory state of the treaty that bans cluster munitions.
  • Regardless, Israel has agreed to stop using munitions it can still legally use, such as cluster munitions and WP.
  • Cluster munitions were used primarily, if not exclusively, by the MLRS units of the artillery corps, but are now completely replaced by a wide host of other conventional munitions. 
  • Recently, IMI announced the completion of development of a cluster munition with a 99% reliability rate, making the treaty invalid for this type of ammo due to similar or even better success rates than most conventional munitions. The munition however is rocket based, not an artillery shell.
  • Ha'aretz is a hard left leaning source, and cluster munitions are universally regarded as "bad" without completely understanding their nature and use, thus they may leverage it for a political gain. To support this, no official statement on this exact issue has been made.
Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE:

The tradition of military parades in Israel could soon be resurrected, after being done for the last time in 1973.

Plans for a parade are already under-way, although official confirmation on them has not been made. 

The parade will be rather limited. Foot soldiers will walk in Jerusalem's main street, in parallel with the air force's sorties above the capital. 

Tanks and AFVs however, will perform a demonstration in a stadium as they're unable to drive in Jerusalem's main street due to light railway construction works.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Tiran-6, 1970s.

2480477_original.jpg

Quote

   Tiran-6 is a designation for the captured T-62, modernized by the Israelis to the IDF standards. In total, during the war in 1973, Israel captured up to 200 T-62, of which about 100 machines were upgraded. Tanks were used until the early 90's, as part of one battalion of the 320th Reserve Tank Brigade, after which they were removed from the armament, and the unit was disbanded

 

Spoiler

2480811_original.jpg

 

2480984_original.jpg

 

2481357_original.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi LoooSerR,

 

After the end of the Six Day War, the IDF absorbed into service approximately 150 T-54s and T-55s as Tiran 4 and 5s. A substantial stock of other intact and damaged tanks were kept for spare parts.

 

After the end of the Yom Kippur war, the original intention was to replace losses by introducing two entire, new armoured divisions (Division 440 and Division 880) made up of captured and then upgraded T series tanks. along with captured BTR-50, Topaz APCs and BDRMs. 

 

Of the 139 captured T-62s in running order 79 were in excellent condition and introduced into service as an independent brigade  of Tiran 6s to be allocated to Division 440. The Tiran 6s kept their 115mm weapons. Although the IDF was impressed by its performance,  the original intention was eventually to replace the 115 with the 105 mm gun because of ammunition shortages

 

Initially another 330 Tiran 4s and 5s were absorbed as war booty by the end of 1974. Upgrades were limited to new radios, optics and machine guns. The intent was that all the Tirans would have their gun replaced with the 105 mm , potential power-pack replacement and other profound upgrades as part of Project Samovar. Many hundreds of T-54s and T-55s in various states of repair were held as a store of spare parts.

 

The IDF planned to absorb another 400-500 Tirans by the end of 1976. This was never carried out, and Division 880 was not introduced with ex Soviet equipment, nor was Project Samovar  carried out. This was because the US sold sufficient M48s and M60s to rebuild the Armoured corps with Western equipment. If not for this, the Israelis would have been one of the largest users of T54s and T-55s outside of the Warsaw Pact. The irony.

 

The numbers are accurate. A friend of mine "Camera" translated the  Hebrew text to English from the second of volume of the History of the Ordnance Corps, written by the military historian Amira Shahar and offered for free download on the site of the Foundation of the Veterans of the Ordnance Corps. The Hebrew name of the volume is ‘The Ordnance Corps as a force multiplier – the history of the Ordnance Corps in the years 1967-1985’:http://himush.co.il/himush.co.il/ori...s1967-1985.pdf. The study is an excellent "warts and all" account pointing out serious shortcomings of the IDF, but also underlining just how important rapid battlefield recovery and vehicle repair was during the 1973 war.

 

cheers

Marsh

Link to post
Share on other sites

The future tank

Carmel, one of the impressive plans that MAFAT has been working on in recent years, together with the Ministry of Defense Tank Program Administration (TPA), involves the IDF's future tank. TPA is currently producing the most advanced version of the tank in use by the IDF Armored Corps - the Merkava 4. Dozens of these tanks rolling off the assembly line of the repair and maintenance center at the Tel Hashomer base each year are equipped with the most advanced technologies that make the Merkava an especially threatening, deadly, and well-protected war machine - due, among other things, to the Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd.'s Trophy active defense system, which is designed to intercept threats like advanced anti-tank missiles and RPG rockets.

The Carmel, however, will be completely different. MAFAT's plans are for a tank that will be small, agile, lightweight, easy to operate, and cheaper than the expensive tanks currently being sold on the market.

The top-secret tank's performance so far has been impressive. Demonstrations have been confined to Ministry of Defense simulations. "Its maneuvering capabilities will be very good, the team operating it will be substantially smaller - perhaps two or three soldiers, it will be powered by a hybrid electrical propulsion system, and it will also have an unmanned and groundbreaking version," Gold told the reporters.

MAFAT believes that a final decision on progress in the future tank program is about three years off. The parties who will make the decision about the program will be shown a deadly war machine that is the stuff of science fiction. It will be equipped with "transparent armor," so that the crew, which will be invisible inside it, will see events outside through an advanced system of touch screens constantly informing the crew of what the many cameras installed on it are photographing. Another possibility also currently under consideration by MAFAT is giving every crew member an advanced smart helmet, similar to the advanced helmets worn by airplane pilot, which constantly broadcasts and screen all the information needed by the soldier on the battlefield.

The future tank's most outstanding feature is its evasiveness, or as the Ministry of Defense puts it, its "invisible signature." For observation or detection systems, the tank's presence in the field will be so well hidden as to be completely invisible. "There are all sorts of methods that have enabled us to achieve this, but it won't happen tomorrow morning," Gold says. "The goal is to improve survival capabilities in the maneuvering of ground forces."

The future tank will be able to both defend itself with active defense systems and provide perimeter defense for vehicles following it if it is leading a battlefield convoy, including infantry forces operating around it. It will take the lead and detect the threat aimed at the forces, and destroy them in time. The tank will also have a solution for mines laid in its path; it will be able to detect and destroy them on the move. "As of now, we are not investing in the vehicle itself; we are investing in the technologies that will be installed on it. Several defense companies are involved in this," Gold says.

While the development of autonomous vehicles is attracting a great deal of fanfare, MAFAT is also looking ahead, with the aim of improving the capabilities of unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs), several models of which are already being used for missions such as border defense. The IDF has such vehicles, which are being used for border patrols, logistical transportation, and light engineering missions. Putting them into use is still slow, however, and their operational use is on a small scale.

The Ministry of Defense sees all the autonomous vehicle ventures being developed in the civilian sphere, but aimed at other purposes. While the future autonomous vehicles are designed to travel on paved roads, the IDF wants UGVs able to travel in field conditions and battle conditions, and which will have highly developed navigability capabilities, and also with remote firing capabilities.

Another development revealed yesterday by MAFAT is designed to make it possible to control an area without a presence there through the use of many hundreds of miniature sensors dispersed in it. The sensors will monitory, photograph, and listen to everything that moves in the area. "These sensors can be dropped from the air, which makes it possible to disperse them in the area and use them for monitoring. We're making great progress in this area, and have already conducted a very large and successful trial," Gold declares. Asked whether these sensors or others like them will also be able to explode next to a human target defined for them and destroy it, Gold said yes.

 

https://www.globes.co.il/en/article-defense-ministry-unveils-stealth-tanks-unmanned-submarines-1001203971

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

https://oleggranovsky.livejournal.com/67621.html

   Some Nagmapop schematics (Nagmapop is reconnaissance variant "Nagmakhon" with a telescopic mast with recon equipment installed on it, early 2000s, only several were made). Recently, on the official site of the IDF, a file in pdf format has been uploaded - "Parts Catalog for Nagmapop", which is where those schematics were found. Some details in the link.

 

Photos of this thing:

41077848.jpg

 

Spoiler

92905796.jpg

 

43852023.jpg

 

Spoiler

21812906.jpg

 

40967373.jpg

 

71216099.jpg

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, LoooSeR said:

 

https://oleggranovsky.livejournal.com/67621.html

   Some Nagmapop schematics (Nagmapop is reconnaissance variant "Nagmakhon" with a telescopic mast with recon equipment installed on it, early 2000s, only several were made). Recently, on the official site of the IDF, a file in pdf format has been uploaded - "Parts Catalog for Nagmapop", which is where those schematics were found. Some details in the link.

 

Photos of this thing:

 

 

  Hide contents

92905796.jpg

 

 

 

Just like in anime!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a few more if you want.

 

Merkava 3 MRS:

https://www.idf.il/media/12069/000903698.pdf

 

Compass for Merkava 3 (also retrofitted on Mark 2, Magach 6/7):

https://www.idf.il/media/12166/000907324.pdf

 

Nagmapop long range observation system:

https://www.idf.il/media/12149/000907014.pdf

 

AFV curtain (?):

https://www.idf.il/media/12083/000904368.pdf

 

Bore-sight for 120mm:

https://www.idf.il/media/12094/000905070.pdf

 

MLRS Hull part 1:

https://www.idf.il/media/12187/000907600.pdf

 

MLRS Hull part 2:

https://www.idf.il/media/12188/000907618.pdf

 

MLRS Launcher part 1 (part 2 missing):

https://www.idf.il/media/12687/000905135-מנתץ-משגר-כרך-א.pdf

 

M109 "Rochev" hull+turret electric systems:

https://www.idf.il/media/12205/000907987.pdf

 

M109 "Doher" hull+turret electric systems:

https://www.idf.il/media/12116/000906042.pdf

 

M109 "Dores" hull+turret electric systems:

https://www.idf.il/media/12204/000907979.pdf

 

Merkava 1/2/3/4 special working tools:

https://www.idf.il/media/12702/000908169-כלי-עבודה-ייעודיים-למרכבה-סימן-3-4-בז-1-2.pdf

 

Magach 7 electric systems:

https://www.idf.il/media/12700/000908142-מגח-7-חשמל.pdf

 

Magach 7 modernized electric systems:

https://www.idf.il/media/12750/000908363-מגח-7-מערכת-חמשל-חדישה.pdf

 

That's about it for today folks.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • By SH_MM
      Found a few higher resolution photographs from the recent North Korean military parade. We didn't have a topic for BEST KOREAN armored fighting vehicles, so here it is.
       
      New main battle tank, Abrams-Armata clone based on Ch'ŏnma turret design (welded, box-shaped turret) and Sŏn'gun hull design (i.e. centerline driver's position). The bolts of the armor on the hull front is finally visible given the increased resolution. It might not be ERA given the lack of lines inbetween. Maybe is a NERA module akin to the MEXAS hull add-on armor for the Leopard 2A5?
       
      Other details include an APS with four radar panels (the side-mounted radar panels look a lot different - and a lot more real - than the ones mounted at the turret corners) and twelve countermeasures in four banks (two banks à three launchers each at the turret front, two banks à three launchers on the left and right side of the turret). Thermal imagers for gunner and commander, meteorological mast, two laser warning receivers, 115 mm smoothbore gun without thermal sleeve but with muzze reference system, 30 mm grenade launcher on the turret, six smoke grenade dischargers (three at each turret rear corner)
       


       
      IMO the layout of the roof-mounted ERA is really odd. Either the armor array covering the left turret cheek is significantly thinner than the armor on the right turret cheek or the roof-mounted ERA overlaps with the armor.
       


      The first ERA/armor element of the skirt is connected by hinges and can probably swivel to allow better access to the track. There is a cut-out in the slat armor for the engine exhaust. Also note the actual turret ring - very small diameter compared to the outer dimensions of the turret.
       
      Stryker MGS copy with D-30 field gun clone and mid engine:

      Note there are four crew hatches. Driver (on the left front of the vehicle), commander (on the right front of the vehicle, seat is placed a bit further back), gunner (left side of the gun's overhead mount, next to the gunner's sight) and unknown crew member (right side of gun's overhead mount with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher mounted at the hatch). The vehicle also has a thermal imager and laser rangefinder (gunner's sight is identical to the new tank), but no independent optic for the commander. It also has the same meteorological mast and laser warner receivers as the new MBT.
       
      What is the purpose of the fourth crew member? He cannot realistically load the gun...
       
      The vehicle has a small trim vane for swimming, the side armor is made of very thin spaced steel that is bend on multiple spots, so it clearly is not ceramic armor as fitted to the actual Stryker.

       
      The tank destroyer variant of the same Stryker MGS copy fitted with a Bulsae-3 ATGM launcher.
       

      Note that there is again a third hatch with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher behind the commander's position. Laser warning receivers and trime vane are again stand-out features. The sighting complex for the Bulsae-3 ATGMs is different with a large circular optic (fitted with cover) probably being a thermal imager and two smaller lenses visible on the very right (as seen from the vehicle's point of view) probably containing a day sight and parts of the guidance system.
       

      Non line-of-sight ATGM carrier based on the 6x6 local variant of the BTR, again fitted with laser warning receivers and a trim vane. There are only two hatches and two windows, but there is a three men crew inside.
       
       
      There are a lot more photos here, but most of them are infantry of missile system (MLRS' and ICBMs).
    • By Monochromelody
      Disappeared for a long period, Mai_Waffentrager reappeared four months ago. 
      This time, he took out another photoshoped artifact. 

      He claimed that the Japanese prototype 105GSR (105 mm Gun Soft Recoil) used an autoloader similar to Swedish UDES 19 project. Then he showed this pic and said it came from a Japanese patent file. 
      Well, things turn out that it cames from Bofors AG's own patent, with all markings and numbers wiped out. 

      original file→https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1565069A/en?q=top+mounted+gun&assignee=bofors&oq=top+mounted+gun+bofors
      He has not changed since his Type 90 armor scam busted. Guys, stay sharp and be cautious. 
       
    • By Beer
      I am sure there are many very interesting stories to share about this topic. Let's start with couple of articles about the weird and sometimes downright crazy history of Czechoslovak assistance which helped Israel to survive its early days. It's true that Czechoslovakia asked a lot of money for bypassing the UN embargo but it doesn't change the fact that it helped in the critical time - before the change of course was ordered from Kremlin in 1949. It's also worth mentioning that the arms-smuggling to Israel brought up to 1/3 of all foreign currency income of Czechoslovakia at that time! It's all in Czech but well understandable with the google translate. 
       
      Here in short the story of the secret Czechoslovak operation DI - the military asistance to Israel from the website of the Czech Institute of the military history. The article contains rare historical photos from the covert military training for army specialists (pilots, tankers, mechanics and even an infantry brigade made of volunteers from the former Czechoslovak Army Corps in USSR). 
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vhu.cz%2Fprubeh-a-podrobnosti-cs-vojenske-pomoci-izraeli-na-konci-40-let%2F
       
      If you really like the topic, you can learn many more details from these six chapters of this superlong article (sure worth studying for anyone interested in the topic).
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14222-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-I%3Futm_source%3Dvalka_cz%26utm_medium%3Darticle%26utm_campaign%3Dserial
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14223-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-II%3Futm_source%3Dvalka_cz%26utm_medium%3Darticle%26utm_campaign%3Dserial
      https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14230-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-III
      https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14236-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-IV%3Futm_source%3Dvalka_cz%26utm_medium%3Darticle%26utm_campaign%3Dserial
      https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14242-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-V%3Futm_source%3Dvalka_cz%26utm_medium%3Darticle%26utm_campaign%3Dserial
      https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valka.cz%2F14246-Ceskoslovensko-a-jeho-vojenska-pomoc-statu-Izrael-v-prvnim-obdobi-jeho-samostatne-existence-VI%3Futm_source%3Dvalka_cz%26utm_medium%3Darticle%26utm_campaign%3Dserial
       
      After that we have the totally crazy story of the Cairo bombing raid actually performed from the communist Czechoslovakia in 1948. Why don't we have yet any movie about three B-17s smuggled from USA, crewed by American-Jewish airmen, armed with former German machineguns and bombs and operating from an airfield located in then communist Czechoslovakia? If that doesn't deserve to be filmed than what does? 
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.idnes.cz%2Fzpravy%2Fdomaci%2Fnalet-zatec-kahira-b-17-izrael.A130712_105045_domaci_jw
       
      Most of you likely know that the first combat aircraft of the Israeli airforce were Czechoslovak Avia S-199 fighters. This stillborn stop-gap modification of the leftover Bf-109G airframe was rather useless in fact (Czechoslovakia had loads of Bf-109 airframes but no spare DB-605 engines whose reliability was absurdly low due to bad late-war steel, so the engines were replaced with Jumo-211 bomber units - completely unsuitable but available) but nevertheless it helped to stop the Egyptian attack on Tel Aviv and brought a very important psychological advantage on the Israeli side. More about these planes here. 
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.idnes.cz%2Ftechnet%2Fvojenstvi%2Fizrael-ceskoslovensko-vyroci-izraelske-letectvo.A180526_235424_vojenstvi_erp
      https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.idnes.cz%2Ftechnet%2Fvojenstvi%2Fceskoslovenske-letectvo-stihaci-letadlo-avia-s-199.A200116_174150_vojenstvi_erp 
       
      To add to the absurdity of that time... the man behind the support for the Israel was Czechoslovak FM Vladimír Clementis who was executed just few years later as a result of an intra-communist power struggle.  
       
       
       
       
       
       
       

×
×
  • Create New...