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Serge

CV-90, why so much love ?

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16 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

Those are some really beefy sideskirts!  Any idea what they're made of?

 

The CV9030Cz is based on the latest Norwegian configuration, which utilizes AMAP armor. The skirts might therefore consist of a ceramic/aramad mix confined in steel or another metal. On the previous CV9030 models the MEXAS armor had a maximum thickness of 70 mm.

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"Bombekaster på belter

Hæren og Forsvarsmateriell demonstrerte den nye CV90BK (bombekastervogn) på Rena. Digitalisert kommunikasjon mellom våpensystem er hovedstikkordet for økt kampkraft. 

En stund lå tåken for tett over regionsfelt Østlandet til at demonstrasjonen kunne begynne. Det er nemlig ikke lov å øvelsesskyte uten klar sikt.

Telemark bataljon, Hærens våpenskole og Forsvarsmateriell beholdt imidlertid både roen og troen, og ikke langt tid etter lettet tåken. Dermed kunne de fremmøtte få se hva den nye CV90-typen hadde å by på.

RULLENDE BOMBEKASTER

Fire CV90 bombekastere sto klare. Alle fyrte av fem granater hver i retning av målet, som befant seg mellom to til tre kilometer unna.

Mortar Weapon Systems (MWS) er navnet på bombekastersystemet i vognen. Den store forskjellen fra eldre bombekastervogner er at innrettingen i CV90 er automatisk: MSW vet hvor det selv er, og i hvilken retning det peker.

MSW kommer dermed mye raskere til skudd etter at vognen er kjørt i stilling.

– BEDRE TREFFSIKKERHET

Fagsjef ved våpenskole, oberst Trond Haande, forteller at vognene vil tilføre Hæren en betydelig kapasitet innen beskyttelse og mobilitet.

De nye vognene gir også Hæren nye muligheter for å få ild på bakken i løpet av potensielt 1–2 minutter fra målet er observert, noe som er en betydelig oppgradering. 

– Takket være den nettverksbaserte kommunikasjonen mellom drone, stormpanservogn og CV90 bombekaster, oppnår Hæren bedre treffsikkerhet og utsetter personellet for mindre risiko enn før. Tidligere har informasjonen om målets plassering vært formidlet gjennom muntlig overføring. Nå kan dette skje elektronisk, sier oberst Haande.

– Vi i Forsvarsmateriell er glade for å ha levert CV90 bombekaster til Hæren. Dette gir økt kampkraft gjennom gode og fremtidsrettede tekniske og elektroniske systemer, sier Forsvarsmateriells delprosjektleder, Per Rune Hansen i Kampvognprosjektet. "

 

Translation:
"Mortars on tracks

Hæren and Forsvarsmateriell demonstates the new CV90BK (Mortar vehicle) at Rena. Digitized communication between the weapon systems is a important aspect of increased combat power. 

 

For awhile the fog laid too thick over the region of østlandet before demonstrations could start. It is not allowed to practice firing without clear sight.

 

Telemark bataljon, Hærens våpenskole and Forsvarsmateriell meanwhile kept their cool, and not long after, the fog lifts. This meant that the visitors could see what the CV90 variant was capable of.

 

ROLLING MORTAR

Four CV90 mortar vehicles stood ready. All fired off five shells in the direction of the target, which was between two to three kilometers away.

 

Mortar Weapon System (MWS) is the name of the mortar system on the vehicle. The big difference from the older Mortar vehicles is that the mortar system in the CV90 is automatic: MWS knows where it is, and in which direction it points. 

 

MWS comes with much faster rate of fire after the vehicle is in position. 

 

-BETTER ACCURACY

Head of weapons school, Colonel Trond Haande, explains that the vehicles will add considerable protection and mobility capacity to Hæren.

 

The new vehicles also gives Hæren new possibilities for rounds on the ground by potentially 1-2 minutes from the target is observed, which is a considerable upgrade.

 

-Because of the network based communication between drones, IFVs and CV90 Mortar vehicles, Hæren accomplices better accuracy and exposes personnel for less risk then before. Earlier, information about the target whereabouts had to be communicated verbally. Now it can happen electronically, says Colonel Haande.

 

-We in Forsvarsmatriell are happy to deliver the CV90 mortar vehicles to Hæren. This gives increased combat power through good and futuristic technical and electronic systems, says Forsvarsmateriell's part project leader, Per Rune Hansen in the Tank program."

 

 

Source:
https://forsvaret.no/aktuelt/testet-ny-cv90-bombekaster

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These mortar-carriers with muzzle-loading mortars puzzle me.  I would think that a breech-loading mortar could provide a much more compact and better protected installation.  Is it really that outrageously expensive to develop a breech-loading mortar?

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Both solutions are interesting. 

Here, the CV-90 Multivogn is universal carrier. It can performe as a mortar carrier, but as a cargo carrier, an APC too. At a low price. 

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7 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

These mortar-carriers with muzzle-loading mortars puzzle me.  I would think that a breech-loading mortar could provide a much more compact and better protected installation.  Is it really that outrageously expensive to develop a breech-loading mortar?

 

2 hours ago, Serge said:

Both solutions are interesting. 

Here, the CV-90 Multivogn is universal carrier. It can performe as a mortar carrier, but as a cargo carrier, an APC too. At a low price. 

 

It seems commonality and price is the answer. The CV90BK is simply a CV90 MultiC with a L16 81mm mortar and a FCS. 

 

You should not underestimate the Norwegian armies wish for cost cutting in the weirdest places, besides, we burnt all our money on the F-35s. 

 

MUCH cheaper solution than the AMOS:
m02006112500222.jpg

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The CV90BK is made from the former Mk-2 chassis, not the Mk-3 one. 

So, it can be interesting to save the turret weight to keep it to mine protection (I don’t know if the underbelly was reinforced.).

The 81mm is weak to be used to support armored units. 120mm is far better. The use of such a tiny caliber on such a capable chassis is an oversized choice.

7993.jpg

The new and the old mortar carrier. 

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54 minutes ago, Xoon said:

It seems commonality and price is the answer. The CV90BK is simply a CV90 MultiC with a L16 81mm mortar and a FCS. 

 

The L16 mortar can be used dismounted. It’s lighter and harder to be spoted. 

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On 21.11.2017 at 12:26 AM, Serge said:

So, it can be interesting to save the turret weight to keep it to mine protection (I don’t know if the underbelly was reinforced.).

 

All the upgraded CV90s come with extra mine protection afaik.

 

On 21.11.2017 at 12:26 AM, Serge said:

The 81mm is weak to be used to support armored units. 120mm is far better. The use of such a tiny caliber on such a capable chassis is an oversized choice.

 

I suppose that the main reason for why these are outfitted with 81mm mortars is probably because that’s all the Norwegian Army has atm, and acquiring new 120mm mortars + ammunition would have added too much costs.

 

With that being said, the VingPos Mortar Weapon System was developed on the request of the Norwegian Army, and it is designed to be able to accommodate both  81mm mortars and 120mm mortars, so  might be that they’re hoping on acquiring some eventually.

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On 3.9.2017 at 2:56 PM, SH_MM said:

I am not sure how deep the cooperation between the Netherlands and Norway is, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be as deep as the cooperation between the Netherlands and Germany currently is - though it might have been a closer cooperation at the time the CV90 was chosen. 

 

IIRC the Norwegian and Dutch armies had some deep cooperation planned in the mid-2000s which would involve exchanges of equipment, joint accusations and access to each others training facilities. This included (from the top of my head, so I might be mistaken on some of it):

- That the Netherands would transfer 18 of their PzH 2000 to Norway, and IIRC a number of  Fennek recce vehicles as well.

- Norway on the other hand would supply the Netherlands with NASAMS 2 (upgraded from Norwegian stocks).

- Norway would also transfer LEGUAN bridge laying systems to the Netherlands, and IIRC also some mortar carriers.

- The Netherlands would upgrade Norway's fleet of Leopard 2A4s to A6.

- Norway would develop and produce specialty vehicles based on the Leopard 2 hull for both the Dutch and Norwegian armies. This included a so called Gjennombrytingspanservogn (armoured break through vehicle).

 

All of this seemed awesome, but then the people in FD (our MoD) started calculating, and they discovered that this could not be accomplished without increasing the budget (and this was at a point in time when our politicians were more interested in the opposite), so they ended up pulling out of most of the stuff. The Dutch were not pleased (they still ended up buying most of the stuff Norway had offered them however).

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