Rohrkrepierer Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 @Pardus, I'm currently trying to get in contact with one of the authors of the paper to see if he can help me with a couple of things. Including this, and possible further information on DM23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 16, 2018 Report Share Posted June 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rohrkrepierer said: @Pardus, I'm currently trying to get in contact with one of the authors of the paper to see if he can help me with a couple of things. Including this, and possible further information on DM23. Sounds good Rohr! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Also just noticed the following: Image removed for OPSEC reasons (recieved notification from METKA) Note: I think the six squares at the edge of the left sponson indicate the thickness of the plate here, which to me looks like ~30mm. This also makes the most sense in terms of protecting the fuel tanks from being ruptured by smallarms or HMG fire. To corroborate this theory there seems to be at least that amount of protection on the aircon system hatch: Spoiler SH_MM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I don't think the six squares have to relate to the armor thickness of the hull side; they are part of the mounting mechanism for the side skirt elements. Leopard 2A7 at Eurosatory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 hours ago, SH_MM said: I don't think the six squares have to relate to the armor thickness of the hull side; they are part of the mounting mechanism for the side skirt elements. Leopard 2A7 at Eurosatory I think they are the lower mounting points yes, however I still think they might indicate how thick the outer plate is going to be by how much they extend over the sponson floor. And again ofcourse it simply wouldn't make sense not to secure the fuel tanks (a critical component) from smallarms fire, as even 5.56 NATO green tip will penetrate 10mm of armour at 100m, 7.62 NATO AP 15mm, and finally .50 BMG up to 22.2mm of FHA. Now since I seem to recall reading that the Leopard was designed to be immune to 20mm fire from the sides, I believe that indicates at atleast a 40-50mm RHAe protection for the fuel tanks, which could be achieved for example via a 12mm outer high hardness plate + a thicker 30mm one spaced behind it, just like on the 2K and 2AV and seemingly also exactly the type of protection fround on the aircon/filtration system hatch, i.e. a ~12mm outer plate with a ~30mm plate spaced behind it. In summary since the Leopard 2K and 2AV both featured ample amount of spaced armour to protect their fuel cells, and since the NBC hatch on the Leo 2 actually features this same type of spaced protection, I think it's only logical that the production variant followed suit here or even slightly improved upon it for the fuel tank section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 An illustration of what I believe is likely the armour layout of the Leopard 2's sponsons: - image deleted per official request- moderation team Again this is based on the Leopard 2AV and 2K protection scheme as well as the actual protection scheme present on the Leopard 2 at the NBC unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 A close up picture of the rear turret bustle being worked on: - image deleted per official request- moderation team Notice the lip formed by the plate overhang, what does this indicate? Is the turret bustle armour really not 90mm thick? or is the particular turret simply missing the inner wall plate at the moment of picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 A closer look from the other side which seems to indicate that there is a inner wall: Images removed for OPSEC reasons, as per. request from METKA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 This is how the ammo storage looked in the Leopard 2AV or early T14 mod. (before the turret was used to test an autoloader). Drawings from 1975. Bronezhilet, Pardus, Serge and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 Thanks SM_HH, That atleast seem to validate the use of an inner wall, and supposedly with NERA. Would you happen to have information on the thickness of the hull below the sponsons? Narod.ru puts it at 50mm RHA, however are there any measurements to back this up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Plans to upgrade the Norwegian Army’s Leopard 2A4 main battle tanks (MBTs) have been abandoned following the publication of the government’s revised budget in May, the Norwegian MoD has confirmed. Serge and Mighty_Zuk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laser Shark Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 While it makes sense to ditch the somewhat limited Leo 2 upgrade envisioned in P5050 in favor of a better tank, there aren't really any reasons to postpone this until 2020-25 aside from budgetary reasons. The tanks that will show up in the Norwegian tank trials will almost certainly be the same ones that are available today (i.e. Leo 2A7V, M1A2 Sep v3, K2 Black Panther… maybe the LeoClerk though @SH_MM doesn’t think that’s likely), so we might as well pay up now, but sadly, Erna doesn’t seem to care all that much about NATO’s 2% goal, and is more interested in spending less oil money atm. That said, the opposition parties have been pushing this issue for a while now, and there will be a final battle over this in the Storting next autumn, so there is still a glimmer of hope for those who want new tanks sooner rather than later, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Alright guys, I will be attending something called Åben Hede in Denmark tommorrow where the Leopard 2 will be doing some live exercises and you can walk around the tanks and so forth. If there's anything you guys want me to ask or achieve whilst there just let me know today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 17 hours ago, Pardus said: Alright guys, I will be attending something called Åben Hede in Denmark tommorrow where the Leopard 2 will be doing some live exercises and you can walk around the tanks and so forth. If there's anything you guys want me to ask or achieve whilst there just let me know today. Can you ask them about the weights of the following: Turret and stripped turret Hull and stripped hull Mantlet Applique armor front turret and side turret Has the EMES15 been replaced with an updated model ? Have there been any armor insert updates ever? Thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardus Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Hello Laviduce, Disappointingly the people I were able to talk to when there simply didnt know the information you requested, and taking any measurements was rendered impossible by all the military personnel around. However I found out that there's a tank musuem nearby with a Leopard 2A4 on exhibition that I might be able to get access to and there are likely to be experts on the tank there too. Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Pardus said: Hello Laviduce, Disappointingly the people I were able to talk to when there simply didnt know the information you requested, and taking any measurements was rendered impossible by all the military personnel around. However I found out that there's a tank musuem nearby with a Leopard 2A4 on exhibition that I might be able to get access to and there are likely to be experts on the tank there too. Thats ok. Thank you, I appreciate your effort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Leopard 2 KWS prototype (AFAIK one of the two TVM tanks, but could also be the IVT) being refurbished and repainted before going into a museum. It will probably go to the Panzermuseum Munster (or maybe is already there?), which has requested a replacement for the old Leopard 2A4 (because children and young adults would be used to the wedge-shaped turret armor of the Leopard 2). Note the layered hatch construction: NERA spaced over the normal steel hatch Photos via the otvaga forum. Serge and Laviduce 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jägerlein Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Just for the record: The Leopard 2 A6M A2: 17 Tanks with radio equipment compatible to the Netherlands equipment. Still two letters to beat the M48A2GA2. This upgrade was necessary since the 414th Panzer Battalion is subordinanted to the Netherland's 43 MechBrig. If necessary the radios equipment can be switched back to german standards. Source: Neue Version des Leopard 2 für die Truppe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 @Laviduce this picture from some book or presentation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 Its from an old file containing lots of armor estimates from Paul L. and others, which were gathered from the early internet. The original source isn't stated. Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 3:20 PM, SH_MM said: Its from an old file containing lots of armor estimates from Paul L. and others, which were gathered from the early internet. The original source isn't stated. thank you, is this file available ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Wiedzmin said: thank you, is this file available ? http://ciar.org/ttk/mbt/armor/Modern_Armor_IV.pdf It's on page 8, but there is nothing more. The text in the file by itself is mostly worhtless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 ah, this file... thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Hello, I have been lurking this quality forum for a few months now, and finally got to sign up now. Can anyone give me any information on this turret? The one on the left has some attachment things and tape(?), while the normal A4 turret on the right doesnt. I can't really make any sense of it. Thanks! Karamazov 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Probably a Leopard 2A4M CAN turret without add-on armor modules. AFAIK the "tape" are velcro attachments for the SAAB Barracuda camouflage system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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