Militarysta Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, SH_MM said: Rheinmetall claims that the Leopard 2 ATD/Revolution reaches a higher level of frontal armor protection than the Leopard 2A5 and would be on par with the Leopard 2A7 (at least this is what they told to Poland when competing against KMW for the Leopard 2PL program) - nobody knows if that is true. Many military in Poland acually know that it's not true. Polish Leopard 2PL armour suck in compare to the "old" 2A5. The problem is not quality of Rheinmettal aditional armour but very waek basic Leopard 2A4 main armour -it's less armoured vs KE then T-72M1 and against CE as PT-91 whit ERAWA-1 Of course there is ability to incarese protection level - but whit NEW main special armour and whit weight in circa 65 tones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Ready Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 20 hours ago, SH_MM said: This isn't known (to the public at least). Rheinmetall claims that the Leopard 2 ATD/Revolution reaches a higher level of frontal armor protection than the Leopard 2A5 and would be on par with the Leopard 2A7 (at least this is what they told to Poland when competing against KMW for the Leopard 2PL program) - nobody knows if that is true. The problem with Rheinmetall's upgrade is that the base armor of the Leopard 2 comes in different configurations and thus it depends on which variant is upgraded with Rheinmetall's solution. The Leopard 2 ATD/Revolution comes with improved side armor, mine protection kit, roof armor, slat armor for the engine compartment and improved frontal armor, while weighing only 63-64 metric tons - meanwhile the Leopard 2A7 of the German army (no hull add-on armor, no roof armor, but mine protection kit) weighs 63.9 metric tons. This means that either Rheinmetall's armor is a lot better than KMW's (which might be true to some extend, as it is thicker; when having two armor array of the same weight and similar technology, using more thickness can result in improved mass effectiveness) - or that Rheinmetall's claims are a bit too optimistic. It is probably a mix of both, at least in terms of multi-hit capability the AMAP package doesn't seem to perform too well. If Rheinmetall's claims were correct, this would mean the Leopard 2 ATD/Revolution is much better protected than the Leopard 2A7 for the same weight. Because these systems look good on paper, but perform bad in tests. Germany tested at least three types of APS for the Leopard 2A7V in the last few years and found all of them lacking (in the eyes of Germany, the development has not been finished yet). A small number of Trophy APS systems is being purchased for the Leopard 2 tanks meant to participate at the VJTF, but only as a stopgap measure. One great disadvantage of the Leopard A4 revolution is that the gunner's sight is not raised and the ballistic gap closed by an additional armour package. This is pretty bad for gunner's and commander's survivability if getting a hit in this weak area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Ready Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Rheinmetall news: IBD Deisenroth is absorbed by Rheinmetall Protection. https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/publicrelations/pressemitteilungen/2019/2019-03-26_Rheinmetall_IBD_Deisenroth_en.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjHl6y05uHiAhXLblAKHcA6DLgQFjAQegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3e5m2Vqd1un2Rz-ssfxgTa @SH_MM now finally this company is history! Your comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted June 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Some news about polish Leo: 1) Leopard 2A5 have small upgrade during F6 in Poznań (Posen) WZM.5 factory rebuild: https://www.wzm.pl/?p=4054 Yesterday it was open new and big repair plant for Leopard 2A5 - what funny - we have two copetitor factory in Poland: Higt quality standard WZM.5 in Poznanń city who is repair all MTU and only Leo 2A5 and shitty Bumar - Labędy who's tryin to sucesfull complate 2PL program... Both factories hate eacht other and try to "cut" cumpetitor on DoD level. "Small modyfication" polish 2A5 includes: - 2x new thermal cameras (polish Asteria) - 2x new machine gunes instetd MG3 without spare parts - new digital programed radio whit fast hoping - abilities to use new amo - other minor hanges - replaced crew evirnoments in case come pulpits (consoles?) 2) Leopard 2PL is slowly moving on - whole program have serious deley couse two problem: - shitty quality of Bumar job and other polish factories problems - unexeptable problem whit Rheinmettal special armour modules - not in armour protection but in case module build and mounted on tank... but It is achive protection level requirment by army - so turret is able to stop 150mm.... SC warhed and modern long rods like KEW A2...DM63..M338...etc More or lest army want's to have armour able to stop Kornet's Chriznatiema's and Swiniec1/2 and 2PL achive this protection level - and accoding to army "mucht beyond 2A5 level". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted June 24, 2019 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 Greece is (supposedly) selling off some of their Leopard 2A4s and Cyprus is interested: https://defence-point.com/2019/03/05/cyprus-courts-greek-leopard-1a4s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 25, 2019 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 So if Bumar has so less problems going ahead with Leopard 2 PL - it should be easy for them to develop the next gen MBT ;-)) https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/poland-considers-next-generation-tank-development/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted June 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 No, it will not be able. No way. It's typical begging for money from polish industry "oh gve give us money, we wil develped super--nex-gen-tank,plane, halicopter, ship" etc. Polish PGZ and Bumar especialy will not developed anything like IV gen tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylancer-3441 Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 single page article on Leopard 2 prototype extreme cold weather trials in Canada and extreme hot weather trials at YPG, Arizona, published in International Defense Review 1975-06 Laviduce and Scolopax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 hours ago, skylancer-3441 said: That's crazy fast, the same number of crew and a crane can change a power pack on a M60 in around 30-75 minutes, under 30 minutes if the crew want to do the job really fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted June 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Pascal said: That's crazy fast, the same number of crew and a crane can change a power pack on a M60 in around 30-75 minutes, under 30 minutes if the crew want to do the job really fast. pfff i saw a 15 min power-pack replacement in Leo 2A4 :D From stop movement to start movment whit new pp. 15 minutes :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Leopard 2SGs preparing for parade. Spoiler CrappyHead and Laviduce 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 good photo showing gap between turret and hull "https://www.flickr.com/photos/131561895@N06/27828646347/in/photostream/" btw, this APFSDS displayed at WTD91, i think this is 105mm APFSDS for smoothbore(or early design of 120mm DM13, look at fins) i think @SH_MM even posted patent for this APFSDS some time ago Laviduce and Bronezhilet 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zadlo Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 HSW will co-produce Rheinmetall's 120mm and 155mm guns. It could be second company which wants to produce barrels there (after BAE) - and new gunbarrel factory with planned forging line can produce barrels with length up to ~11 meters. https://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=28446&fbclid=IwAR0uMHOMif0q6noiwSDY_hGLFIsdX8Xk-AdRXAqqlE5bXqoTFpRbo4I_1L0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 maybe someone know what does "Beulblech" mean ? Bulging plate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 Regarding the Leopard 2, there are a few problems that have recently been revealed in an Austrian army magazine: 1. The SOTAS communication system from Thales was chosen by the German Bundeswehr and various other militaries as the new radio/communication unit for the Leopard 2. SOTAS has been integrated into the upgraded Leopard 2A6 models, the Leopard 2A7 and the new Strv 122C variant. However integration is troublesome, as the Thales SOTAS has been desinged in accordance with the US-American MIL-STD specifications rather than the German TL standards, which means it is more supsectible to small changes in operational voltage and fails to operate in all cases specificed by the TL standards (some commenters are suggesting that it also fails to meet all MIL-STD standards). The solution to this problem was adding an extra DC to DC converter between the electrical systems of the Leopard 2 and the SOTAS communication system. 2. Rheinmetall has announced that the production of the gun brake K600 will end. The K600 gun brake is used in older Leopard 2 models either in its original form (as hydraulic gun brakes with flammable hydraulic fluid) or the modernized form (as hydronpneumatic gun brakes with a fluid filling consisting of water and glycol). This means that all users of old Leopard 2 models have to upgrade to the newer hydropneumatic K900 gun brake originally developed for the L/55 gun. This also allows firing more powerful ammunition such as DM53/DM63. While it is a reasonable upgrade, a lot of Leopard 2A4 operating countries are pissed that they have to spent money on upgrades. 9 hours ago, Wiedzmin said: maybe someone know what does "Beulblech" mean ? Bulging plate ? Yes. That is the literal translation. "Beule" means "bulge" or "bump", while "Blech" is the German word for (metal) plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 2 hours ago, SH_MM said: Yes. That is the literal translation. "Beule" means "bulge" or "bump", while "Blech" is the German word for (metal) plate. here what Leopard-2AV(and i think 2A0/4) mantlet armour look like in 1976 soon i will upload sort of "article" about Leo2 armour from 1974 up to 1987... weight of this one - 670+38 kg Laviduce, Militarysta, Molota_477 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militarysta Posted July 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 Intresting - so weight 2A4 mask is...smaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Militarysta said: Intresting - so weight 2A4 mask is...smaller 2A4 doesn't have that big thick detail IIRC in lower part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scav Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 1:20 PM, HAKI2019 said: Do you have source that the turnnion is solid？My friend think it is empty like leopard 1. Swedish shooting table for leopard 2 lists gun parts and has the trunnion/gun cradle listed at 595kg. Official Rheinmetall brochure for the L44 from 1982 has these weights: Spoiler 630kg for mantlet, 1905kg for barrel, 1110kg for breech assembly (inc gun cradle). Volume of gun cradle x density of steel gives very similar numbers as reported by the Swedes and indicates it's not hollow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 Quote Land Platforms EDA to launch four-country talks on Leopard 2 upgrade and procurement after industry feedback Brooks Tigner, Brussels - Jane's Defence Weekly 10 July 2019 The EDA is preparing to launch a programme in 2020 for four member states to upgrade or procure Leopard 2A7 equivalents (photo of Greek Leopard 2HEL that will be modernised). Source: Hellenic Army The European Defence Agency (EDA) awaits a last round of market feedback from industry before launching final consultations with member states Cyprus, Greece, Romania, and Spain to launch a programme in 2020 to modernise or procure Leopard 2 main battle tank (MBT) fleets. The effort will aim at upgrading to Leopard 2A7 equivalents or acquiring them, according to the agency. "We're aiming for maximum commonality among them as they upgrade their MBTs," an EDA source told Jane's on 8 July, adding that the programme will involve approximately 200 Leopard tanks, plus a purchase of a new tank battalion by Romania, with all the upgrade work worth "several hundreds" of millions of euros. The programme will include upgrade options for recovery, engineering, and bridging vehicle variants. The four countries' Leopard tank fleets currently vary from the Spanish Leopard 2E and Greek Leopard 2HEL, which are equivalent to the Leopard 2A6 version, to Romania's ageing 2A5 model. Following exploratory talks in 2018, after which a potential group of nine EDA countries interested in the upgrade idea shrank to today's four, the agency issued a preliminary market consultation (PMC) to industry in April 2019. It calls on the latter to propose the most economical technological solutions to bridge as many of the requirements as possible among the four countries. The Leopard 2's two prime contractors - Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall - are expected to respond to the PMC request by offering a full capability approach, for which they have until 18 July. Noting that the four countries' requirements involve around 200 systems and sub-systems, the source said, "We hope to get commonality of 90% or more." With its PMC feedback in hand, the agency will then hold two more meetings with the four national defence ministries with the goal of signing off on the programme in 2020, followed by first deliveries of upgraded tanks starting in 2022. Source: https://www.janes.com/article/89806/eda-to-launch-four-country-talks-on-leopard-2-upgrade-and-procurement-after-industry-feedback Laviduce and Clan_Ghost_Bear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted July 11, 2019 Report Share Posted July 11, 2019 Since when has Romania had Leopards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 12, 2019 Report Share Posted July 12, 2019 I don't know. AFAIK they do not have them yet, but wanted to purchase them. Edit: Romania is still just thinking about buying the Leopard 2. Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 1976 Leopard 2AV armour(all from declassified reports), bustle spaced armour(12+30) also used on serial Leopard-2 tanks. Molota_477, Laviduce, FORMATOSE and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 Any idea about the steel types? Is there some high-hardness steel or is it all TL steel? No Lochblech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted July 13, 2019 Report Share Posted July 13, 2019 W, V, SH(?), HH and without codes...i will add more, but later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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