Terror Attacks and Active Shooter Events Thread

[Sturgeon]

2 minutes ago, Toxn said:

Isn't dividing by the total amount of guns a bit odd, given that most gun owners own more than one? I went with gun owners as a proxy for that reason.

 

This also doesn't do much to quantify exposure risk - which is admittedly much harder to look at in this case.

 

Most car owners own more than one car, too.

[Toxn]

2 minutes ago, Ulric said:

 

90% of firearms used in crime are stolen, how does licensing stop crime when crime is usually committed by those could not get a license if they tried.

That's kind of a different issue - we're comparing deaths to raw numbers here (again - strained, but I didn't make the comparison).

[Sturgeon]

Just now, Toxn said:

That's kind of a different issue - we're comparing deaths to raw numbers here (again - strained, but I didn't make the comparison).

 

No I think that's an excellent point. There is a large black market for guns in the USA, so how does kicking legal owners in the balls make a difference?

[Toxn]

Just now, Sturgeon said:

 

Most car owners own more than one car, too.

I doubt that - unless you're talking about cars owned in sequence, which sort of elides the point.

 

The Fortune article I found estimates something like 50 million gun owners (of which 5% own most of the guns), so raw numbers gives you 5-6 guns per owner, on average.

[Sturgeon]

1 minute ago, Toxn said:

I doubt that - unless you're talking about cars owned in sequence, which sort of elides the point.

 

The Fortune article I found estimates something like 50 million gun owners (of which 5% own most of the guns), so raw numbers gives you 5-6 guns per owner, on average.

 

Um, no the average car owner in the USA owns like 2.5 cars dude.

 

Which is very similar to the average gun owner.

[Toxn]

Just now, Sturgeon said:

 

No I think that's an excellent point. There is a large black market for guns in the USA, so how does kicking legal owners in the balls make a difference?

Again, that's not what we're discussing at all.

 

Oedipus' contention was that cars are more dangerous than guns, and less regulated.

 

So talking about crime is besides the point here.

[Toxn]

1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Um, no the average car owner in the USA owns like 2.5 cars dude.

So half the number of cars guns owned by the average gun owner.

[Sturgeon]

Just now, Toxn said:

So half the number of cars owned by the average gun owner.

 

I guess it's come up to ~8 in recent years - Thanks, Obama!

[Sturgeon]

2 minutes ago, Toxn said:

Again, that's not what we're discussing at all.

 

Oedipus' contention was that cars are more dangerous than guns, and less regulated.

 

So talking about crime is besides the point here.

 

They are both more dangerous and less regulated. That's incontrovertible fact, and any American on the ground would agree with it.

[Toxn]

Just now, Sturgeon said:

 

I guess it's come up to ~8 in recent years - Thanks, Obama!

Indeed.

 

[Ulric]

Just now, Toxn said:

So half the number of cars owned by the average gun owner.

Cars require a lot more space, I can fit all of my guns in one of my three cars. Also, cars usually have annual expenses like registration and insurance. It takes a lot more resources to own many cars. Also, guns are way cheaper than cars.

[Toxn]

Just now, Sturgeon said:

 

They are both more dangerous and less regulated. That's incontrovertible fact, and any American on the ground would agree with it.

So your argument is mere assertion?

 

Can't refute that.

 

Anyway, I have to make the long trek home (by train and car).

[Sturgeon]

Just now, Toxn said:

So your argument is mere assertion?

 

Can't refute that.

 

Anyway, I have to make the long trek home (by train and car).

 

I just spent a considerable amount of time SHOWING you that it is true.

 

You know, we've had a nice little discussion here. I recommend you stop trying to ruin it.

[Donward]

Not to disrupt the gun control debate. I listened to the latest Clark County Sheriff/FBI presser on the shooter yesterday and some useful information came out.

 

The biggest thing of note was just how quickly the Las Vegas police had guys up on the 32n'd floor. Within 12 minutes of the shooting beginning, they had two officers up there and they had 8 within basically a half hour.

 

 

 

There have been a lot of irresponsible armchair commandos online and on talk radio blathering about why it took so long to neutralize the shooter. It seems they had cops there ready to bust in if he continued shooting but since the shooter stopped, they went the slow and steady route at that point.

 

Also, they need to give that hotel security guard a raise. He was there a minute or so earlier than the cops and got shot in the leg for his efforts. Also, he had 200 rounds fired at him and the guy still had the nerves to communicate with police and assist in room clearing. While wounded...

 

The Sheriff seemed to quash the notion that there was a suicide note as pointed out by folks looking at the leaked photos. I suppose the note that people were seeing could have been an advertisement or some piece of random paper.

 

Also this dude had basically built a car bomb out of Tannerite which all he'd have needed to do was shoot it in order to do massive damage.

 

*Working from memory* But it seems he bought the preponderance of the weapons used in October of 2016, the month before the Trump vs. Hillary election. (Is this a motive???)

And the motherfucker intended to survive the attack. 

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Again, this case is definitely an outlier in terms of mass shootings.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulric]

@Toxn

 

Thinking about it, I can't believe that I have to explain the reason for the difference between the ownership rates of guns are cars. Are you familiar with either of the classes of machines?

[Sturgeon]

3 minutes ago, Ulric said:

@Toxn

 

Thinking about it, I can't believe that I have to explain the reason for the difference between the ownership rates of guns are cars. Are you familiar with either of the classes of machines?

 

Pretty sure he's just being obstinate, whether he knows it or not.

 

I love you to death, @Toxn, but when you get an idea in your head, you're like a bulldog. It's very difficult to get you to let go. Since you started out with a suspicion that cars are less lethal and more heavily regulated, it's going to be tough for you to shake that notion.

[Donward]

Following up, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo again seems to be extremely forthright in terms of divulging as much information as he possibly can, even indulging the press with some of his theories. This was opposed to the FBI who were as closed lipped as you would expect.

 

For my opinion, it behooves the authorities to be as open as possible - not harming any investigation or rules of evidence gathering of course in regards to future potential prosecution or apprehension of any associates of the shooter - but with the amount of conspiracy theories out there about multiple shooters and what not, the government agencies must do this.

 

And this shooting is rife with conspiracy theory possibilities (which never will go away sadly).

[Sturgeon]

Link to the video of the presser?

[Donward]

1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

Link to the video of the presser?

Trying to find it... So many 2nd hand sites that Google pulls up first...

[Donward]

 

 

 

[Sturgeon]

So apparently he had planned to survive and escape!?

[Donward]

5 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

So apparently he had planned to survive and escape!?

YEPPER!

 

For what purpose, I don't know. 

 

*Insert favorite conspiracy theory here*

 

 

This event is such an outlier of mass shootings, which are themselves an outlier event.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

5 hours ago, Sturgeon said:

Which devices? Bump fire stocks, or high cap mags?

 

The former, also those godawful crank things.....Both are a dumb idea IMHO.

[Collimatrix]

Four people detained in relation to the Marseilles stabbing attack.  ISIS did claim responsibility for that attack, and it's looking like they weren't lying.  The article also notes that five people were arrested in an unrelated bombing plot.

[Sturgeon]

SlideFire is the sacrificial lamb on this one, I see. NRA is asking ATF to review the legality of SlideFire stocks.

I am not in favor of feel-good ritual sacrifices every time something bad happens, but if it has to happen then I guess this is as good a lamb as any.