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United States Gun Control Megathread

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15 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

You do not get a citizen, by sending them to an armed camp to learn.

 

Schools are already miserable prisons... Which is perhaps why some of their more psychotic wards tend to want to perforate the place when they get the chance.

 

I know, I know, I'm not supposed to blame the deaths of children on how obviously miserable and dystopian our school system is. It's a faux pas in this country.

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3 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

I understand the objection, but they are not going to let students arm themselves, and they already do this stuff in poor neighborhoods, and no one seems to care.    Is this our white privilege showing?

 

 

(Joking)

Haha, there were more Chippewa in my school than anything else.   Then "chippewa+whatever" (Usually French) like myself, then a few Finns.

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Just now, Sturgeon said:

 

Schools are already miserable prisons... Which is perhaps why some of their more psychotic wards tend to want to perforate the place when they get the chance.

 

I know, I know, I'm not supposed to blame the deaths of children on how obviously miserable and dystopian our school system is. It's a faux pas in this country.

Not sure I disagree with you at all. Your school system is fucked. When religion is taught as science, not mythology and you can't fire incompetents you obviously have problems.  There are a bunch of things that are fucked up about various US school systems. And you don't have the political ability/will to fix it, from what I can see.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

Schools are already miserable prisons... Which is perhaps why some of their more psychotic wards tend to want to perforate the place when they get the chance.

 

I know, I know, I'm not supposed to blame the deaths of children on how obviously miserable and dystopian our school system is. It's a faux pas in this country.

Hence my hesitance to sour things.

Adding armed security and fences is not going to make things better, it just increases the pressure in the school, and forces the resultant blow-offs to occur at the gates or outside the school.

 

Stop, and fix the problem.  Except that is something this, "our" government cannot functionally do . Actually "FIX" problems. 

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1 minute ago, Meplat said:

Stop, and fix the problem.  Except that is something this, "our" government cannot functionally do . Actually "FIX" problems. 

 

But Meplat, that would involve throwing out the Prussian school model, cutting off a bunch of parasites, and actually making kids WANT to go to school! Simply inconceivable!

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3 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Not sure I disagree with you at all. Your school system is fucked. When religion is taught as science, not mythology and you can't fire incompetents you obviously have problems.  There are a bunch of things that are fucked up about various US school systems. And you don't have the political ability/will to fix it, from what I can see.

 

Bud, it was fucked by the 1930's.  It's just now gotten so bad that it's beyond repair. 

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1 minute ago, Belesarius said:

I don't know and have said that previously.  I don't know how to reconcile the Constitutional right to own a firearm regardless of competence to use it, and community safety.  Y'all have made your choices as a country. There are costs to those choices. Can you live with them?

 

 

You say that as if having a right to the tools to defend ourselves is a bad thing. It also stinks of ignorance of the fact that the VAST majority of gun owners, even the stupid ones, never break any law with their firearms. This country has a minor gun problem and a very big social problem that's driving broken people to commit mass killings.  Taking away the right for people to defend themselves will just make them easier victims for the next lefty nutjob.  You ever think about why schools get shot up, maybe because they are guaranteed to be gun free because of the gun free zone bullshit?

 

It gets pretty fucking tiresome a large number of people, some who should know better, jump to blaming a right instead of addressing the real problem. And the real problem has nothing to do with guns. It's like people forget all the mass killings done with bombs and trucks. 

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Just now, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

Y'all have made your choices as a country. There are costs to those choices. Can you live with them?

 

We've also made the choices not to outlaw cars, or schools, or to geld boys when they come of age, even though all of these things would demonstrably reduce violence and promote peace.

Living with them currently, we'll let you know how it goes.

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2 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

 

But Meplat, that would involve throwing out the Prussian school model, cutting off a bunch of parasites, and actually making kids WANT to go to school! Simply inconceivable!

ACH! Silly me,  If we encourage the development of logical and practical thought processes, how will we ensure a base of malleable slav-err "employees" and voters who know their place!? 

I agree, I shall report to the local dispensary for a refill of "goodthought" pills !

(haha)

 

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4 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Not sure I disagree with you at all. Your school system is fucked. When religion is taught as science, not mythology and you can't fire incompetents you obviously have problems.  There are a bunch of things that are fucked up about various US school systems. And you don't have the political ability/will to fix it, from what I can see.

 

 

 

 

You buy into some really silly anti right-wing propaganda. 

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1 minute ago, Sturgeon said:

 

We've also made the choices not to outlaw cars, or schools, or to geld boys when they come of age, even though all of these things would demonstrably reduce violence and promote peace.

Living with them currently, we'll let you know how it goes.

 

 

I think Belle said that...

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And I mean, like, for real. There's some cognitive dissonance to the "ban assault rifles" thing, you know? Like we're supposed to forget temporarily that the AWB was enacted in '94, and Columbine happened in '99.

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2 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

And I mean, let's not forget that for all the violence and terror that alcohol and drugs blow in with them under their wings, we've tried making those illegal and it just made the problem worse.

 

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" applies very well here. 

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2 minutes ago, Sturgeon said:

And I mean, like, for real. There's some cognitive dissonance to the "ban assault rifles" thing, you know? Like we're supposed to forget temporarily that the AWB was enacted in '94, and Columbine happened in '99.

Outside of the "Let's ban an inanimate object " reasoning. 

 

If banning an inanimate object fixed things, shops like "Home Depot" or "Harbor Freight" would demand to see a contractors license before you could buy a box of nails. 

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I think most of y'all know I'm not for banning ownership of much of anything. If you don't have that figured out, then let me reiterate that point. I don't want to ban anything.  I might want to impose some qualifications and mandatory minimum training on those who want to own stupidly dangerous devices... Kinda like licensing requirements for driving a car, or demonstrable competence in knowing what fucking ammo your gun uses before you blow your dumb ass and anyone standing next to you up.  And maybe require liability insurance if you want to play with dangerous toys.  I'm all for repealing the NFA, legalizing (but regulating) full auto weapons, and BTW, suppressor use should be if not just encouraged, but pretty darned close to mandatory as safety equipment.  But yeah...

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

I think most of y'all know I'm not against banning ownership of much of anything. If you don't have that figured out, then let me reiterate that point. I don't want to ban anything.  I might want to impose some qualifications and mandatory minimum training on those who want to own stupidly dangerous devices... Kinda like licensing requirements for driving a car, or demonstrable competence in knowing what fucking ammo your gun uses before you blow your dumb ass and anyone standing next to you up.  And maybe require liability insurance if you want to play with dangerous toys.  I'm all for repealing the NFA, legalizing (but regulating) full auto weapons, and BTW, suppressor use should be if not just encouraged, but pretty darned close to mandatory as safety equipment.  But yeah...

 

 

 

The problem is, the instant you try to regulate and legislate anything, you open up the potential for corruption, incompetence and crime.

The history of "Vehicle Safety Inspections" in the U.S. is a good one, as well as how well some states (mis)handle their license plate/driver's license application/renewal procedures.

 

Id also add in the number of "licensed contractors" in the U.S. who'd I'd not trust to drive a nail without splitting the stud or bending the nail.  (or licensed mechanics I've worked with)

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17 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Not sure I disagree with you at all. Your school system is fucked. When religion is taught as science, not mythology and you can't fire incompetents you obviously have problems.  There are a bunch of things that are fucked up about various US school systems. And you don't have the political ability/will to fix it, from what I can see.

 

What's really ironic is that the same people that make huge fusses about how bad our schools are, how religion is taught over science, about how abstinence only education is stupid, are the ones who put our schools in this god awful situation in the first place. 

 

Seriously. The swing-back from some conservative areas regarding evolution and sex ed are mainly just desperate grasping at whatever power they still have, because the school boards are run by worthless leftest bureaucratic fucktwits.

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Just now, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

What's really ironic is that the same people that make huge fusses about how bad our schools are, how religion is taught over science, about how abstinence only education is stupid, are the ones who put our schools in this god awful situation in the first place. 

 

Seriously. The swing-back from some conservative areas regarding evolution and sex ed are mainly just desperate grasping at whatever power they still have, because the school boards are run by worthless LEFTIST bureaucratic fucktwits.

You didn't need the leftist bit of bullshit. Because a lot of the right wing bureaucratic fuckwits are just as worthless.

Bureaucrats cause expense.  Kind of their nature.

 

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3 minutes ago, Meplat said:

The problem is, the instant you try to regulate and legislate anything, you open up the potential for corruption, incompetence and crime.

The history of "Vehicle Safety Inspections" in the U.S. is a good one, as well as how well some states (mis)handle their license plate/driver's license application/renewal procedures.

 

Id also add in the number of "licensed contractors" in the U.S. who'd I'd not trust to drive a nail without splitting the stud or bending the nail. 

So other than banning stuff, what is the solution?

 

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Just now, Belesarius said:

 

Bureaucrats cause expense.  Kind of their nature.

 

Not their nature, their raison d'etre.

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Just now, Belesarius said:

You didn't need the leftist bit of bullshit. Because a lot of the right wing bureaucratic fuckwits are just as worthless.

Bureaucrats cause expense.  Kind of their nature.

 

No, I actually did need it in there because that's who controls the state level board of education in nearly every single state. 

 

I know this because of the educators in my family, the counselors, and the tutoring and work I've done for schools.

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1 minute ago, Belesarius said:

You didn't need the leftist bit of bullshit. Because a lot of the right wing bureaucratic fuckwits are just as worthless.

 

You didn't mean it this way, but what anybody listening is going to hear is "Hahahah, oh you don't like what we did? Who cares. You have bad actors, too. Now, while you're busy feeling bad our ne'erdowells will continue to fuck your shit up."

 

You do know that 95% of bureaucrats in the US are registered Democrats, right?
 

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3 minutes ago, Oedipus Wreckx-n-Effect said:

What's really ironic is that the same people that make huge fusses about how bad our schools are, how religion is taught over science, about how abstinence only education is stupid, are the ones who put our schools in this god awful situation in the first place. 

 

Seriously. The swing-back from some conservative areas regarding evolution and sex ed are mainly just desperate grasping at whatever power they still have, because the school boards are run by worthless leftest bureaucratic fucktwits.

 

Who has also thrown away science by pushing the no biological differences between males and females bullshit, but MUH CHriStians are ignorant. But you're anti LGBTWHATTHEFUCKEVER if you point it out. 

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