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13 minutes ago, Sovngard said:

 

The bottom right picture reveals some interesting details.

Oh, yes ! I used a high res scan of that image to get my lower boundaries for the front hull inserts among other things.

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3 hours ago, Laviduce said:

These images come from the book "Char Leclerc: De la guerre froide aux conflits de demain" by Marc Chassillan.

thank you

Q9PRxTVcTOw.jpg

 

about you schemes with special armour, turret right "cheek" seems to have some sort of weakspot in bottom part(protection of left and right asymmetrical by height? or maybe it's not that obvious on early turrets)  

 

2 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Oh, yes ! I used a high res scan of that image to get my lower boundaries for the front hull inserts among other things.

can you share this/those scan/scans ?

 

 

MCu1zj_Rg2I.jpg

 

such an arrangement of special armour is very doubtful due to uneven LOS imho, it can be spaced armor, but not special

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2 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Oh, yes ! I used a high res scan of that image to get my lower boundaries for the front hull inserts among other things.

 

So, you have to correct your 3D model.

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3 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

thank you

Q9PRxTVcTOw.jpg

 

about you schemes with special armour, turret right "cheek" seems to have some sort of weakspot in bottom part(protection of left and right asymmetrical by height? or maybe it's not that obvious on early turrets)  

 

can you share this/those scan/scans ?

 

 

MCu1zj_Rg2I.jpg

 

such an arrangement of special armour is very doubtful due to uneven LOS imho, it can be spaced armor, but not special

 

Here is the turret of the model from another angle:

 

Spoiler

turret_underside

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_turret_front_2

 

 

Spoiler

turret_underside 2

 

 

Spoiler

turret_front

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a2

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a3

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a1

 

 

The front turret is of the series 1 tanks. This changed in series 2 and again with series XXI. Darklabor made these a while ago to  illustrate the changes:

 

Spoiler

8386147533_4b35d4f4be_o.png.4ec6bccb1d84d8d5a87a42cd20fcc504

 

 

Spoiler

8387233180_15b0451f83_o.png.c97407f1be0b4ab2b18647cc481b66a3

 

 

The uneven line of sight thickness of the left  front hull side flap have also concerned me.  As you can see the right side flap has a more even distribution (mainly because of the fuel tanks). As you said these side "flaps" might just be spaced armor.

 

The swedish tank trials mockup did not include them, which could mean that they are not special armor.

 

Spoiler
Lec_1

 

 

As you have seen in a previous post my earlier rendition of this modules had a more regular LOS thickness because of me placing a tiny fuel tank in that location as well. But looking at the insert bays and what was pointed out in an earlier post i removed the (mini) fuel tank. It made little sense to have a 4L fuel tank in that location.' In the image below, the upper right center shows the straight line shadow of the side wall of the insert bay:

j1aTpdB_leclerc_hull_cavities

 

Here is the "high res" image of the hull:

 

hull_construction_Leclerc

 

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2 hours ago, Sovngard said:

 

So, you have to correct your 3D model.

 

I do not understand what i should correct. Could you please explain ?  From what i gathered from the  picture, among other things, was that the lower boundary of the special armor bays 1) seems to be level with the hull floor and 2) the lower edge of the front hull is more or less the lower boundary of the special armor bays.

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After feedback, it might be best to differentiate between different types of "special armor" regions. I am very certain the turret bustle special armor (orange) is not the same as the primary special armor (red) or the side front hull special/spaced (?) armor (green):

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a5

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a6

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a8

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_a7

 

 

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4 hours ago, Laviduce said:

 

I do not understand what i should correct. Could you please explain ?  From what i gathered from the  picture, among other things, was that the lower boundary of the special armor bays 1) seems to be level with the hull floor and 2) the lower edge of the front hull is more or less the lower boundary of the special armor bays.

 

  • There should be two pipes connected to the turret roof : one for the air inlet and one for the exhaust outlet (your S1 model features the S2 hot air exhaust pipe).
  • The attachment point at  the level of the gun elevation gear should be drastically improved.
  • The hull special armor cavity extends downward from the hull front welding line (which doesn't delimit the bottom of the special armor cavity, the suspension recesses are a small clue).
  • Regarding protection of the gun shield/mantlet/mount/square frame, there is not enough information available in the public domain to make any conclusion/accurate modelling.

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1 hour ago, Sovngard said:

 

  • There should be two pipes connected to the turret roof : one for the air inlet and one for the exhaust outlet (your S1 model features the S2 hot air exhaust pipe).
  • The attachment point at  the level of the gun elevation gear should be drastically improved.
  • The hull special armor cavity extends downward from the hull front welding line (which doesn't delimit the bottom of the special armor cavity, the suspension recesses are a small clue).
  • Regarding protection of the gun shield/mantlet/mount/square frame, there is not enough information available in the public domain to make any conclusion/accurate modelling.

 

1) I did not bother to go into details with the air handling/conditioning unit because it was not part of objective and I did not have enough information to go by.  If you have more detailed information so i can complete /correct the AHU I would be grateful if you could provide it to me.

2) I was not trying to go into details here given the lack of information. I wanted to give the approximate size and location of the mechanism. Could you please elaborate on what part seems to be off?

3) I still do not understand this part.

 

SA_FH_ll

 

4) The mantlet setup was derived using the following images:

  

mantlet_references

 

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18 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Here is the "high res" image of the hull:

i'm talking about other images :)

 

about hull front i think your model is correct(as swedish report showed), but side "flaps" imho looks very strange 

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8 hours ago, Wiedzmin said:

i'm talking about other images :)

 

about hull front i think your model is correct(as swedish report showed), but side "flaps" imho looks very strange 

You mean the other images on the page ?

 

I am not totally sure how to resolve these "flaps" any other way without making it worse.

 

Spoiler

Lec_special_armor_front hull_1

 

 

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Here are my conventional steel plate thickness estimates for the Leclerc S1:

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_1

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_3

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_12

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_5

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_4

 

 

Spoiler

 

Lec_conv_vul_6

 

 

Spoiler

 

Lec_conv_vul_7

 

 

Spoiler

Lec_conv_vul_9

 

 

I will discuss the heavy side skirts and the mantlet some more in the next update.

 

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21 hours ago, Laviduce said:

Here are my conventional steel plate thickness estimates for the Leclerc S1:

/.../

I will discuss the heavy side skirts and the mantlet some more in the next update.

   Estimates are based on pictures/visual guesses or some sort of hard data that is avaliable for mortals?

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1 hour ago, LoooSeR said:

   Estimates are based on pictures/visual guesses or some sort of hard data that is avaliable for mortals?

The entire project and all these estimates contained within are based on:

 

  • pictures.
  • video screen caps.
  • scaled blue prints of the exterior of the vehicle that include the dimensions of the vehicle.
  • the Tamiya model (which is based on measurements of a Leclerc Serie 2 vehicle).
  • visual guesses with plenty of interpolation and referencing.
  • basic geometric tricks via CAD using pictures,
  • what is known about French and Western MBT design. 
  • images of the CAD model by DarkLabor (in part).
  • documents dealing with ammunition size.
  • swedish tank trial presentation.
  • the general help and feedback of various other people (i.e.DarkLabor, Froggy, Unwinder66, etc.).
  • oh yeah, more interpolation and referencing.

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Here are the diagrams for the heavy side skirts and the mantlet:

 

Heavy Side Skirts:

 

Spoiler

Heavy_side_skirts

 

 

Mantlet:

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_7

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_5a

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_1

 

 

Spoiler

 

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_2

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_4a

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_5

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Lec_S_1_mantlet_xy

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_3a

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_3

 

 

Spoiler

Leclerc_Series_1_mantlet_6

 

 

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11 hours ago, Sovngard said:

Featuring the SEPAR kit (SystèmE de Protection EEI pour AMX 10RCR), the weight is around 22-23 t.

kek, Separ in Russian is a slang term for E.Ukrainian separatists.

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1 hour ago, chandieka said:

does anyone know why Leclerc gun mantlet don't have any composite armor?

As far as i know the Leclerc mantlet assembly is at least partially "multilayered". According to Froggy the block around the COAX is composite. The mantlet itself might also be composite/multilayered.

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2 hours ago, chandieka said:

does anyone know why Leclerc gun mantlet don't have any composite armor?

Yes.

The reson is simple - accuracy. Heavy gun mantled mask will couse some balnace problem - of course wy can weight good gun whit some countr-balance but whole solution weight a lot - like in Rh120. And this forced more powerfull stabilisation mehanism or a little bit slower in case micro -movment. In Leclerc ultra light gun mantled mask provide better gun ballance and ability to have very fast but very small in amplitude gun movments -so accuracy aspecially in move is better.

Second problem is gun vibration after shooting. Heavy gun mantled mask made some problem whit this - like in case L55 on Leo -wich is less accuracy then old L44... all is coused by vibration on ultra-long barrel after shooting. Agian - heavy gun mantled mask make some problem whit vibration reduction, light gun mantled mask + shorter gun in Leclerc = no sucht problem.

And third part of answer - Leclerc was highly redy for 140mm gun.

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3 hours ago, Soy Boy said:

Does anyone have any sources talking about the reliability of the Leclerc’s  V8X-1500 engine? I’ve read supposed claims without sources stating they had horrendous reliability in their early variants.

 

Not that I know of.

The poor initial reliability is basically cited in every book I came across so there must be truth to it.

 

Maybe you can try through reports for the parliament, the availability rate of various material can be published when asked by a parliamentary.

Here are the number for 2016-2017:

 

https://i.imgur.com/f3wbdbs.jpg

 

http://questions.assemblee-nationale.fr/q15/15-5567QE.htm

 

Problem is it's only the overall availability, not the reliability of one particular component.

Also note that both the Leclerc and it's recovery vehicles are listed on the same line (while the Leclerc use V8X the DNG/DCL use the EuroPowerpack MTU MT883).

 

Your best bet would be to go through the archives of the national assembly and the senate searching for older reports and inquiry (senate reports tend to be a bit more technical and detailed):


http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/

http://www.senat.fr/

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