Serge Posted February 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Wiedzmin said: Busy tank commander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Ready Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 7:33 PM, Laviduce said: I used this image to get the lower boundary of the center hull cavities. For the the cavity thickness I used a prototype Leclerc diagram as a reference and two images of the Leclerc front hull under contruction. Using the two images I got a rough ballpark range of around 590-690 mm using CAD and photomatching techniques. With the prototype diagram i got a thickness of about 620 mm. It seemed like a plausible number so I went with it. I can provide some more detailed explanation including the sources if someone wants to know. I was very careful in my evaluation. I will use this model to create a vulnerability map: @Laviduce very good work so far, when can we expect your vulnerability map? What program did you use for creating this model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoooSeR Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Lord_James, Laviduce and Serge 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Gun Ready said: @Laviduce very good work so far, when can we expect your vulnerability map? What program did you use for creating this model? It will take me a while to get to the point. I still want to add the major components such as the ammunition drum, autoloader, fuel tanks, etc. to the model. I am currently stuck on the fuel system, which is giving me problems. I used Sketchup to model the tank. I plan to create horizontal crosssectional 2D slices of the hull and turret at 10 mm intervals that i will colorcode and then save as a image file. I will use Matlab and its image processing abilities to process the 2D slice images, stack them and generate a 3D matrix that then can be visiualized in many different ways (e.g. heat map,etc.). The color coding is necessary to denote different zones (e.g. composite array, structural steel, ballistic steel, fuel cell, air gaps,etc.) I want to to do this for 7 different frontal aspect. (+30,+20,+10,0,-10,-20,-30 degrees). Given the that the hull and turret are about 2000 mm in height and the slice spacing of 10 mm , i would have to generate 200 slices per aspect, totalling 1400 individual slices that would have to be exported, colorcoded and imported into matlab to be processed. Currently i am not sure on how to speed up the process without having to figure out how to create many slices at once using a Ruby script in Sketchup. I do not program regularly and when i do it is usually Matlab/C++ based and not Ruby based. So i can either go brute force on the 1400 slices or increase the slice spacing in order to decrease the number of slices to be processed. Anyway this is what i have so far dealing with the fuel tanks on the Leclerc: The mystery tank is supposed to be a reservoir needed for the turret traverse mechanism. Yet the book Le System Leclerc states that there is a fuel tank in the (upper hull) in the back section. The mystery tank: the book article: Translation: With a total capacity of 970 1, Group 1 includes a structural tank positioned in front of and above the undercarriage ammunition barrel, one structural tank behind the driver, three plastic tanks at the rear of the frame and another plastic tank at the top of the frame rear of the chassis. Group 2, on the other hand, has 285 liters distributed between one structural tank on the Left Front and one on the front right. There are a couple of issues with this translation: 1) There is no mention of a fuel tank next to the ammunition drum and it does not say that the top of the ammuntion drum is partially covered. These images hint at a fuel tank next to the ammuntion drum and also that the ammuntion drum is only partially covered on the top: 2) The fuel tank that is supposed to be at the back can not be identified on any of the images. I thought it was the mystery tank but i was told that that was not the case. Here the two plastic fuel tanks can be seen as well as the structural fuel cell behind the driver. I am not sure what the structure behind the ammuntion drum is. the early Leclercs had a fuel capacity of 1255 liters. This jumped to 1300 liters with the later Leclercs. Currently i am stuck around 1100-1200 liters in my model. I am looking for this other fuel tank and appreciate any constructive input criticism so I can cover the other 100 liters. Feedback, suggestions or corrections would be greatly appreciated. Serge, Lord_James and Collimatrix 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_James Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 I do hope you’re being paid for this all this work @Laviduce, cause that just sounds like a headache. Or, if you’re not, I hope you like what you’re doing, cause that’s pretty awesome. Either way, keep up the good work! This is really interesting, and might shed some light on an underrated MBT. Have you done something like this before, with another tank or something, or are you figuring out the process as you go? Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 maybe this will help (tanks with same color usually used for same liquids) Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Wiedzmin said: maybe this will help (tanks with same color uses for same liquids) Thank you very much Wiedzmin. According to one source this black object near the turret ring is supposed to be some kind of hydraulic reservoir for the turret traverse and elevation mechanism. I am not totally convinced of that. I thought that this black object is another fuel tank. As the book says there is supposed to be another fuel tank at the (upper) back of the hull. I am missing about 100 liters in my model and this object is the approximate size that would satisfy the requirement. I need a second or third opinion. The other plastic fuel cells are next to eachother on the hull floor. If you look closely in the opening for the turret connector you will see the fuel lines for those two black plastic fuel tanks. Also, the object that the one guys has his hand on might be part of the fire suppression system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Laviduce said: Thank you very much Wiedzmin. According to one source this black object near the turret ring is supposed to be some kind of hydraulic reservoir for the turret traverse and elevation mechanism. I am not totally convinced of that. I thought that this black object is another fuel tank. As the book says there is supposed to be another fuel tank at the (upper) back of the hull. I am missing about 100 liters in my model and this object is the approximate size that would satisfy the requirement. I need a second or third opinion. The other plastic fuel cells are next to eachother on the hull floor. If you look closely in the opening for the turret connector you will see the fuel lines for those two black plastic fuel tanks. Also, the object that the one guys has his hand on might be part of the fire suppression system. Centrale a carburant - fuel pump ? and orange cell under ammo rack and you can see it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, Wiedzmin said: Centrale a carburant - fuel pump ? and orange cell under ammo rack and you can see it here Like this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_James Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Laviduce said: Thank you very much Wiedzmin. According to one source this black object near the turret ring is supposed to be some kind of hydraulic reservoir for the turret traverse and elevation mechanism. I am not totally convinced of that. I thought that this black object is another fuel tank. As the book says there is supposed to be another fuel tank at the (upper) back of the hull. I am missing about 100 liters in my model and this object is the approximate size that would satisfy the requirement. I need a second or third opinion. Does it specifically say the back hull or the back of the turret ring? If it’s the back hull, the fuel tank might be in the rear sponsons or next to the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 This is what it says: "With a total capacity of 970 1, Group 1 includes a structural tank positioned in front of and above the undercarriage ammunition barrel, one structural tank behind the driver, three plastic tanks at the rear of the frame and another plastic tank at the top of the frame rear of the chassis. Group 2, on the other hand, has 285 liters distributed between one structural tank on the Left Front and one on the front right." Which means to me : - A fuel tank behind the driver -> This checks out. - Three plastic fuel tanks at the hull bottom -> This checks out. - A fuel tank in front of and above the ammuntion drum -> this at least partially checks out: - A fuel tank at the upper rear portion of the hull (or crew compartment)-> I cant find it anywhere. - 1 sponson fuel tank on the left and right -> this checks out mor or less. I also thought that it might be burried behind the turret ring or be next to the engine but no source or image has corroborated this in any way. I had more luck finding suggestive evidence that there might a fuel tank next to the ammuntion drum. The rear sponsons are taken up by the batteries, NBC system , exhaust /muffler and some kind of ventilation system right next to the NBC system. This ventilation system might just be part of the NBC system or it might just be used to suck massive amounts of air into the engine compartment. The drawings are pretty poor and it is hard to identify and place certain components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 48 minutes ago, Laviduce said: Like this ? take a closer look at photos Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Wiedzmin said: take a closer look at photos Yes like this, three plastic fuel cells ! Fuel cell number 4 is the one structural fuel cell behind the driver: I will add the third plastic fuel cell behind the ammunition drum to the model. By the way , from where did you get the last picture? Do you happen to have more of those that you could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Laviduce said: Yes like this, three plastic fuel cells ! Fuel cell number 4 is the one structural fuel cell behind the driver: I will add the third plastic fuel cell behind the ammunition drum to the model. By the way , from where did you get the last picture? Do you happen to have more of those that you could share? http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=300&p=7 btw maybe this will be intersting(cuts in side armour and fuel cell shape) Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laviduce Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Wiedzmin said: http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=300&p=7 btw maybe this will be intersting(cuts in side armour and fuel cell shape) Thank you Wiedzmin ! The images and the link are very helpful. Sadly some of the images are no longer available or no longer available in their full size. Either way, the ones that are available are definitely very useful to me. I will incorporate the revelations into my model. I am still not sure where this mystery fuel tank is supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan_Ghost_Bear Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 Is there any good info on the Turkish Leclerc project? I've only been able to find an image of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPZ Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Clan_Ghost_Bear said: Is there any good info on the Turkish Leclerc project? I've only been able to find an image of it. They already have Leo 2, why should they buy Leclerc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzoc Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, VPZ said: They already have Leo 2, why should they buy Leclerc? AFAIK it was Nexter's proposal when Turkey was looking for a base to produce the Altay. In the end the K2 won that competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 7 hours ago, VPZ said: They already have Leo 2, why should they buy Leclerc? They already have M60, why did they bought Leopard 2 ? Talks between Turkey and GIAT Industries started in 1998. A Leclerc MBT followed 8 months of tests in 2000 in winter and summer conditions. The TNMBT programme was launched in 2004. The French proposal was made in 2005. Everything was stopped in 2007 because of heavy diplomatic problems between France and Turkey. So, the K2 was chosen in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valryon Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Serge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 For those who say « tracks = wheels ». The nightmare of the French Army. I’m laughing at wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramlaen Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 I don't think anyone knowledgable on the subject of wheels vs. tracks tries to fit a square peg in a round hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Moyes Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 @Laviduce I stumbled upon these. Don't know if they're any help: EDIT: Found the website - http://sirpat.idix.fr/3d/LECLERC/desktop.html Laviduce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPZ Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 On 3/3/2019 at 11:13 AM, Serge said: They already have M60, why did they bought Leopard 2 ? Talks between Turkey and GIAT Industries started in 1998. A Leclerc MBT followed 8 months of tests in 2000 in winter and summer conditions. The TNMBT programme was launched in 2004. The French proposal was made in 2005. Everything was stopped in 2007 because of heavy diplomatic problems between France and Turkey. So, the K2 was chosen in place. OK, it's an old cancelled project, not Leclerc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzoc Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, VPZ said: OK, it's an old cancelled project, not Leclerc. In a way yes. It is what the Altay would have looked like if it had been based on the Leclerc instead of the K2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.