Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) and Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT)

[Alzoc]

2 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Yeah a storage box has been changed, you deduce the armor protection is completely changed...
What a tremendous change... ... ...

 

Never said that much

 

3 hours ago, Alzoc said:

Well they reworked the armor packages a bit and so far it's really nothing more than a Leclerc turret on a Leopard 2 hull.

 

[Serge]

I hope so. 

[DarkLabor]

Just now, Alzoc said:

 

Never said that as much

 

 

Storage boxes are not part of the armor package. They contribute to the protection against CE, but they are no armor.

[Serge]

7 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Yeah a storage box has been changed, you deduce the armor protection is completely changed...
What a tremendous change... ... ...

The turret ring is raised to provide space for the driver head or deep for the turret basket. 

[DarkLabor]

Just now, Serge said:

The turret ring is raised to provide space for the driver head or deep for the turret basket. 

Kof! Turret bustle! Kof! Kof!

[Alzoc]

10 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Storage boxes are not part of the armor package. They contribute to the protection against CE, but they are no armor.

 

Technically yes you are right. I have no way of knowing if they changed the actual armor under it.

 

14 minutes ago, Serge said:

What !!! Diffusion Restreinte 

 

DR is pretty much a joke anyway.

I used to work with some DR documents and there isn't really much important stuff in it.

It's basically just here to tell you that it should only be shared on a need to know basis.

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000022685385&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000022683846&dateTexte=20111202

[Serge]

2 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Kof! Turret bustle! Kof! Kof!

This one too. Ha ! Ha !

[DarkLabor]

2 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

Technically yes you are right. I have no way of knowing if they changed to actual armor under it.

E-MBT is just two parts of two MBTs duck taped together to please investors.
The REAL work is within the tank to make it work as one.
Armor is out of the windows as long as there is no confirmed customer.
If there are no customers, this vehicle may become a test bed for futur development for MGCS.

[Serge]

 

5 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

DR is pretty much a joke anyway.

I used to work with some DR documents and there isn't really much important stuff in it.

It's basically just here to tell you that it should only be shared on a need to know basis.

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000022685385&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000022683846&dateTexte=20111202

It was a joke. 

[Alzoc]

5 minutes ago, Serge said:

It was a joke. 

 

I know.

 

But members outside France don't necessarily know that.

AFAIK we are pretty much the only country to use such a low level of protection that the document doesn't even count as classified^^

French love for paperwork and administrative rules at its best xD

[VPZ]

5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

For real? Even the 2A7?

Auto trackers have been the hottest thing since the 90's.

I don't know. May be it has.

[Serge]

55 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

AFAIK we are pretty much the only country to use such a low level of protection that the document doesn't even count as classified^^

French love for paperwork and administrative rules at its best xD

France, mother off all government. 

[Alzoc]

 

I've got an amazing selection of more than 75 of them.

[SH_MM]

 

It's missing the additional armor block under the gunner's sighter, probably due to the location of the driver's hatch... not clever.

 

[skylancer-3441]

10 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

https://bilder.t-online.de/b/83/91/55/08/id_83915508/920/c_raw/tid_da/index.jpg

removing /920 from this link provides opportunity to see and download larger image (1920x1280 pix) https://bilder.t-online.de/b/83/91/55/08/id_83915508/c_raw/tid_da/index.jpg

[DarkLabor]

13 minutes ago, SH_MM said:

 

It's missing the additional armor block under the gunner's sighter, probably due to the location of the driver's hatch... not clever.

 

Not missing.
Just, look at the turret bustle sides and rear.

[DrunkenMaster]

Interesting what a certain russian? troll has to say:

 

Someone asked if this hybrid would be an answer to the Armata:

 

- Wiedzmin: в плане идиотских решений более чем, совместить продукцию страны которая танки не умела делать никогда, с продукцией страны которая вообще не понимает что такое танки это сильно да.

- отрохов: Может Вы тут нам старым и глупым для понимания всё-же расскажите что такое есть танки?

- Wiedzmin: что угодно произведенное не немцами и французами например

 

And I always thought otvaga is rather moderate, sad...

[SH_MM]

54 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Not missing.
Just, look at the turret bustle sides and rear. 

 

Unless the gunner's sight was moved forward (which is not easy to do given that it's channel has to be cut within the steel structure of the tank), the armor thickness in front of the gunner's sight is a lot lower, because it is missing the latest version of the armor block.

[DarkLabor]

1 hour ago, SH_MM said:

 

Unless the gunner's sight was moved forward (which is not easy to do given that it's channel has to be cut within the steel structure of the tank), the armor thickness in front of the gunner's sight is a lot lower, because it is missing the latest version of the armor block.

You're looking too far.
Just look at what has already been produced in terms of tanks.

[Edit] Apparently you have a really hard time to see that the storage boxes have been changed to "hide the crime"

[Alzoc]

What's amusing with the EMBT is that the exact same concept had already been proposed during the design phase of the Leclerc.

Take a Leo 2 hull, slap a P48 2 man turret on it and call it a day.

 

Cooperation failed this time, because (according to the French version of the story) the German wanted to build the hull (their Leo 2 normal), use a Rhm gun and build half of the turret leaving only the electronics for the French.

Needless to say French officials were not too happy about the proposal^^

 

Germany did tried to sweeten the deal by proposing to name the tank Napoléon.

Appealing to French pride is always a good plan (Damn they know us too well^^)

[Ramlaen]

[LoooSeR]

1 hour ago, DrunkenMaster said:

Interesting what a certain russian? troll has to say:

 

Someone asked if this hybrid would be an answer to the Armata:

 

- Wiedzmin: в плане идиотских решений более чем, совместить продукцию страны которая танки не умела делать никогда, с продукцией страны которая вообще не понимает что такое танки это сильно да.

- отрохов: Может Вы тут нам старым и глупым для понимания всё-же расскажите что такое есть танки?

- Wiedzmin: что угодно произведенное не немцами и французами например

 

And I always thought otvaga is rather moderate, sad...

He is not troll, he is just very harsh (including our, Russian armor development). Otvaga forum is not a place where members are selected by someone, so different opinions are presented. 

[DrunkenMaster]

Ok, you call it harsh, I call it fucking stupid! Disregarding tanks just because of nationality kills your credibility like nothing else, so he is just a fucking troll in my regard.

 

52 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Otvaga forum is not a place where members are selected by someone, so different opinions are presented. 

 

edit: I get what you mean, you maybe think I meant "moderated forum", but I wrote moderate forum, as in "tempered".

[Wiedzmin]

28 minutes ago, DrunkenMaster said:

Ok, you call it harsh, I call it fucking stupid! Disregarding tanks just because of nationality kills your credibility like nothing else, so he is just a fucking troll in my regard.

 

you can call whatever you want

 

and about so called "credibility", when someone thinks that some tank are 100% better than others, and doesn't  think that all tanks are equally shitty, well, that's where your "credibility died"

 

how many claims about superb Leo2 armour was made before Turkish Leo2 get in Syria, and swedish report ? and where all this "credible sources and claims" now ?:) 

 

 

[SH_MM]

I don't think anybody ever claimed a Leopard 2's hull side or bustle armor would survive an ATGM.