Jump to content
Sturgeon's House

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Yeah a storage box has been changed, you deduce the armor protection is completely changed...
What a tremendous change... ... ...

 

Never said that much ;)

 

3 hours ago, Alzoc said:

Well they reworked the armor packages a bit and so far it's really nothing more than a Leclerc turret on a Leopard 2 hull.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 307
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

*Damian on suicide watch*

https://ir.rheinmetall.com/download/companies/rheinmetall/Presentations/191120_CMD_2019_Unterluess_CEO_online.pdf

Meanwhile at Eurosatory 2018 :   The Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT), a private venture project intended for the export market.  

7 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Yeah a storage box has been changed, you deduce the armor protection is completely changed...
What a tremendous change... ... ...

The turret ring is raised to provide space for the driver head or deep for the turret basket. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Storage boxes are not part of the armor package. They contribute to the protection against CE, but they are no armor.

 

Technically yes you are right. I have no way of knowing if they changed the actual armor under it.

 

14 minutes ago, Serge said:

What !!! Diffusion Restreinte 

 

DR is pretty much a joke anyway.

I used to work with some DR documents and there isn't really much important stuff in it.

It's basically just here to tell you that it should only be shared on a need to know basis.

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000022685385&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000022683846&dateTexte=20111202

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

Technically yes you are right. I have no way of knowing if they changed to actual armor under it.

E-MBT is just two parts of two MBTs duck taped together to please investors.
The REAL work is within the tank to make it work as one.
Armor is out of the windows as long as there is no confirmed customer.
If there are no customers, this vehicle may become a test bed for futur development for MGCS.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

5 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

DR is pretty much a joke anyway.

I used to work with some DR documents and there isn't really much important stuff in it.

It's basically just here to tell you that it should only be shared on a need to know basis.

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexteArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000022685385&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000022683846&dateTexte=20111202

It was a joke. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Serge said:

It was a joke. 

 

I know.

 

But members outside France don't necessarily know that.

AFAIK we are pretty much the only country to use such a low level of protection that the document doesn't even count as classified^^

French love for paperwork and administrative rules at its best xD

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Alzoc said:

AFAIK we are pretty much the only country to use such a low level of protection that the document doesn't even count as classified^^

French love for paperwork and administrative rules at its best xD

France, mother off all government. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting what a certain russian? troll has to say:

 

Someone asked if this hybrid would be an answer to the Armata:

 

- Wiedzmin: в плане идиотских решений более чем, совместить продукцию страны которая танки не умела делать никогда, с продукцией страны которая вообще не понимает что такое танки это сильно да.

- отрохов: Может Вы тут нам старым и глупым для понимания всё-же расскажите что такое есть танки?

- Wiedzmin: что угодно произведенное не немцами и французами например

 

And I always thought otvaga is rather moderate, sad...

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, DarkLabor said:

Not missing.
Just, look at the turret bustle sides and rear. 

 

Unless the gunner's sight was moved forward (which is not easy to do given that it's channel has to be cut within the steel structure of the tank), the armor thickness in front of the gunner's sight is a lot lower, because it is missing the latest version of the armor block.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SH_MM said:

 

Unless the gunner's sight was moved forward (which is not easy to do given that it's channel has to be cut within the steel structure of the tank), the armor thickness in front of the gunner's sight is a lot lower, because it is missing the latest version of the armor block.

You're looking too far.
Just look at what has already been produced in terms of tanks.

[Edit] Apparently you have a really hard time to see that the storage boxes have been changed to "hide the crime"
35151582_10156348594893187_5376278669146
35026564_10156348594988187_3078983237557

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's amusing with the EMBT is that the exact same concept had already been proposed during the design phase of the Leclerc.

Take a Leo 2 hull, slap a P48 2 man turret on it and call it a day.

 

Cooperation failed this time, because (according to the French version of the story) the German wanted to build the hull (their Leo 2 normal), use a Rhm gun and build half of the turret leaving only the electronics for the French.

Needless to say French officials were not too happy about the proposal^^

 

Germany did tried to sweeten the deal by proposing to name the tank Napoléon.

Appealing to French pride is always a good plan (Damn they know us too well^^)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DrunkenMaster said:

Interesting what a certain russian? troll has to say:

 

Someone asked if this hybrid would be an answer to the Armata:

 

- Wiedzmin: в плане идиотских решений более чем, совместить продукцию страны которая танки не умела делать никогда, с продукцией страны которая вообще не понимает что такое танки это сильно да.

- отрохов: Может Вы тут нам старым и глупым для понимания всё-же расскажите что такое есть танки?

- Wiedzmin: что угодно произведенное не немцами и французами например

 

And I always thought otvaga is rather moderate, sad...

He is not troll, he is just very harsh (including our, Russian armor development). Otvaga forum is not a place where members are selected by someone, so different opinions are presented. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, you call it harsh, I call it fucking stupid! Disregarding tanks just because of nationality kills your credibility like nothing else, so he is just a fucking troll in my regard.

 

52 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Otvaga forum is not a place where members are selected by someone, so different opinions are presented. 

 

edit: I get what you mean, you maybe think I meant "moderated forum", but I wrote moderate forum, as in "tempered".

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, DrunkenMaster said:

Ok, you call it harsh, I call it fucking stupid! Disregarding tanks just because of nationality kills your credibility like nothing else, so he is just a fucking troll in my regard.

 

you can call whatever you want :)

 

and about so called "credibility", when someone thinks that some tank are 100% better than others, and doesn't  think that all tanks are equally shitty, well, that's where your "credibility died"

 

how many claims about superb Leo2 armour was made before Turkish Leo2 get in Syria, and swedish report ? and where all this "credible sources and claims" now ?:) 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • By SH_MM
      Found a few higher resolution photographs from the recent North Korean military parade. We didn't have a topic for BEST KOREAN armored fighting vehicles, so here it is.
       
      New main battle tank, Abrams-Armata clone based on Ch'ŏnma turret design (welded, box-shaped turret) and Sŏn'gun hull design (i.e. centerline driver's position). The bolts of the armor on the hull front is finally visible given the increased resolution. It might not be ERA given the lack of lines inbetween. Maybe is a NERA module akin to the MEXAS hull add-on armor for the Leopard 2A5?
       
      Other details include an APS with four radar panels (the side-mounted radar panels look a lot different - and a lot more real - than the ones mounted at the turret corners) and twelve countermeasures in four banks (two banks à three launchers each at the turret front, two banks à three launchers on the left and right side of the turret). Thermal imagers for gunner and commander, meteorological mast, two laser warning receivers, 115 mm smoothbore gun without thermal sleeve but with muzze reference system, 30 mm grenade launcher on the turret, six smoke grenade dischargers (three at each turret rear corner)
       


       
      IMO the layout of the roof-mounted ERA is really odd. Either the armor array covering the left turret cheek is significantly thinner than the armor on the right turret cheek or the roof-mounted ERA overlaps with the armor.
       


      The first ERA/armor element of the skirt is connected by hinges and can probably swivel to allow better access to the track. There is a cut-out in the slat armor for the engine exhaust. Also note the actual turret ring - very small diameter compared to the outer dimensions of the turret.
       
      Stryker MGS copy with D-30 field gun clone and mid engine:

      Note there are four crew hatches. Driver (on the left front of the vehicle), commander (on the right front of the vehicle, seat is placed a bit further back), gunner (left side of the gun's overhead mount, next to the gunner's sight) and unknown crew member (right side of gun's overhead mount with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher mounted at the hatch). The vehicle also has a thermal imager and laser rangefinder (gunner's sight is identical to the new tank), but no independent optic for the commander. It also has the same meteorological mast and laser warner receivers as the new MBT.
       
      What is the purpose of the fourth crew member? He cannot realistically load the gun...
       
      The vehicle has a small trim vane for swimming, the side armor is made of very thin spaced steel that is bend on multiple spots, so it clearly is not ceramic armor as fitted to the actual Stryker.

       
      The tank destroyer variant of the same Stryker MGS copy fitted with a Bulsae-3 ATGM launcher.
       

      Note that there is again a third hatch with 30 mm automatic grenade launcher behind the commander's position. Laser warning receivers and trime vane are again stand-out features. The sighting complex for the Bulsae-3 ATGMs is different with a large circular optic (fitted with cover) probably being a thermal imager and two smaller lenses visible on the very right (as seen from the vehicle's point of view) probably containing a day sight and parts of the guidance system.
       

      Non line-of-sight ATGM carrier based on the 6x6 local variant of the BTR, again fitted with laser warning receivers and a trim vane. There are only two hatches and two windows, but there is a three men crew inside.
       
       
      There are a lot more photos here, but most of them are infantry of missile system (MLRS' and ICBMs).
    • By Walter_Sobchak
      I realized that we don't actually have a thread about the British Chieftain tank.  
       
      I posted a bunch of Chieftain related stuff on my site today for anyone who is interested.  The items include:
       
      Magazine Articles
       
      1970 article from ARMOR
      1970 article from IDR  - Chieftain-Main Battle tank for the 1970s
      1976 article from IDR - The Combat-Improved Chieftain – First Impressions
      1976 article from IDR - Improved Chieftain for Iran
       
      Government reports
       
      WO 194-495 Assessment of Weapon System in Chieftain
      WO 341-108 Automotive Branch Report on Chieftain Modifications
      DEFE 15-1183 – L11 Brochure 
      WO 194-463 – Demonstration of Chieftain Gun 
       
      WO 194-1323 – Feasibility study on Burlington Chieftain
    • By Walter_Sobchak
      Bundeswehr Weasel and British Light tank Mark IV
       

    • By Belesarius
      http://www.janes.com/article/52476/german-army-receives-first-production-standard-puma-aifv
       
      30mm with airburst capability, and supposedly better mine protection than a Leo 2.
       

×
×
  • Create New...