VPZ Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 32 minutes ago, DIADES said: yes there are. They are drivers cameras that have the FoV a driver needs. There are no cameras on the turret, no flank cameras anywhere. So, not Iron Vision which uses stitched together camera images to mimic seeing through the hull and turret. The video tries to show the turret moving with the operators head movements. But he can't see anything cos - no situational awareness cameras. So, PR puffery. Yes, this vehicle lacks of side and rear cameras, it really doesn't have see through armor. DIADES 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reta Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 He is using the helmet to control the turret\weapon station. The all point of this system is to integrate the traditional FCS sensors into a HMD. I don't understand why this frustrates you guys so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 5:51 PM, skylancer-3441 said: Hide contents in this piccy, my untrained eye can see 2 set of IRON VISION sensors 2 set of IRON fist's radar 1x ELBIT commander sight and a fore hull mounted Hanwha camera still to come are the EOS RWS sensor packages. why place iron vision sensor there unless intent is to use them? edit and the birds eye photo add 2 more sets of IRON VISION sensor and IRON fist's radar, so 4 of each, thats 360 coverage. + driver''s reversing camera Reta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 27, 2020 Report Share Posted August 27, 2020 interesting radar for iron fist, seems a recent development https://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/israeli-ministry-of-defense-selects-elbit-systems-iron-fist-light-decoupled-active-protection-system-for-the-eitan-afv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 20 hours ago, Kal said: my untrained eye Yes, Iron Fist IR and RADAR sensors are there. Each RADAR sensor has a dedicated IR sensor. IR is on all the time and if it sees a muzzle flash or rocket exhaust, it turns the RADAR on to detect and track a possible incoming threat. The RADARs are off by default as they use a lot of power and give the host vehicle a RADAR cross section you could see from the moon. Iron Fist has no sensors of use at all for human vision. These sensors are outside the visible spectrum. There are also a pair of LASER warning receivers. There is no Iron Vision camera array on this turret. If you look around the web you will see that Iron Vision fitted demonstrators have a multi-camera array. This turret does not. Yes, the gunners sight is present and that is the only feed available on this turret. Utterly pointless to use a headset with it. The sight points where the gun is pointing and vice versa. Useless for situational awareness (no peripheral vision) and a headset is useless for aiming the weapon. The gun is a gun, not a missile which you can point in roughly the right direction. Don't get me wrong - I am a fan of Iron Vision and the whole concept of fused data streams, images, targeting systems etc. But, my point is that this specific vehicle/turret does not have have the claimed capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 20 hours ago, Reta said: this frustrates you Just hate PR - love the idea, but this ain't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, DIADES said: Iron Fist While on the topic - latest reports in Defence Technology Review talk of 18 month delay for L400 Phase 2 integration due to lack of system maturity. https://defencetechnologyreview.partica.online/defence-technology-review/dtr-sep-2020/flipbook/36/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 it has 4 of these, I don't know if they are real or just place holders, but it sure looks looks like iron vision to me. On EOS's T2000 pdf they indicate the laser warning and IronVision sensors are co-located. https://www.eos-aus.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Turret-Launch-Brochure-WEB.pdf DIADES 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, DIADES said: While on the topic - latest reports in Defence Technology Review talk of 18 month delay for L400 Phase 2 integration due to lack of system maturity. https://defencetechnologyreview.partica.online/defence-technology-review/dtr-sep-2020/flipbook/36/ I'm not surprised, amongst other things, Elbit in Victoria, Rheinmetall is in Qld and the borders are locked down hard between states due to Covid19 (and Victoria is basically 95%+ of Australia's wave 2 infections) EOS in Canberra had their own problems https://themarketherald.com.au/electro-optic-systems-asxeos-future-plans-drastically-altered-by-covid-19-2020-04-30/ '' One week before formal deliveries could commence, the delivery chain was broken in multiple places due to a national lockdown and the impact of COVID-19. A total of five essential EOS technical staff from Australia had to leave the country within 24 hours or be stranded due to airport closures and quarantine. All accessible airports were closed to normal commercial passengers and freight. The EOS production facility, located in a secure industrial zone, was locked down by military police, along with all other defence plants. Approximately 50 per cent of EOS local staff were forced into quarantine. The military test facility required for live firing was closed and the designated delivery points within military bases were cut off by military base closures LoooSeR and DIADES 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Kal said: Elbit in Victoria I think the problems are deeper and are more to do with basis system maturity in Israel. I hear (unsubstantiated) rumors of increasing system mass, power demand and shock loads on the turret plus decreasing threat defeat capabilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Kal said: laser warning and IronVision sensors are co-located. hmmm. Indeed. Still that will only see forward while Iron Vision is 360 degree. Plus the lens (if that is what they are) look too small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, DIADES said: hmmm. Indeed. Still that will only see forward while Iron Vision is 360 degree. Plus the lens (if that is what they are) look too small? yeah but there are 4 of them, you can count them in the video. and presumably, they can use that frontal hanwha camera, its really looks like its intended for full 180 coverage so when the vehicle pokes its nose around a corner, they can see sideways before the turret is exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 Iron Vision sensor blocks per side also it looks like a different generation of iron fist RADAR, this time with the IR etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, Kal said: T2000 pdf Nah - looks like that is PR too. The Elbit LWS looks like that with no Iron Vision. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjj0qbxxb3rAhWYwzgGHUfPDZUQFjACegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Felbitsystems.com%2Fmedia%2FLWS_5_Web.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3XAt7o4HHJzNalXLLo-vUa SH_MM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kal said: ooks like a d Your pics don;t come across? Just a random string of characters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kal said: re 4 of them, you can count them in the video. LOL, I tried. I can only see the front two. All I see on the back are the Iron Fist RADARs and IR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, DIADES said: Your pics don;t come across? Just a random string of characters thanks, its working on my system, but I can't tell about others, those pictures are links to the the screenshots that skylancer posted after that video. Can you see those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Kal said: Can you see those? Interesting - no. Just text strings. I am using in Firefox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Kal said: it has 4 of these, I don't know if they are real or just place holders, but it sure looks looks like iron vision to me. Those are laser warners from Elbit. https://elbitsystems.com/media/LWS_5_Web.pdf DIADES 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, Kal said: Can you see those? Now I can, right click, View Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH_MM Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 hours ago, DIADES said: Iron Fist has no sensors of use at all for human vision. These sensors are outside the visible spectrum. There are also a pair of LASER warning receivers. This is not correct. Iron Fist uses cameras for wake-up detection and apparently they have been integrated into the Iron Vision system. See the graphic visible at #01:30 of the following marketing video: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, SH_MM said: marketing v Yep, load of marketing.... Iron Fist integrated with Iron Vision is vaporware. Per my earlier post - 18 month delay on basic Iron Fist integration. These systems have been substantially oversold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Australian DOD will get a good chance to test Iron vision/fist out, i don't know how much the results will be made public. The T2000 turret is derived from Elbit, so the family DNA is high, but its still is an EOS product, and until there is an EOS RWS on it, the turret is incomplete. (Which is to say, we can see what they are selling, but we can't see if it matches delivery.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIADES Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kal said: results will be made public Zero. CoA runs competitive closed tender evaluation. That process will not be complete until late 2022 when the winner is announced. Even after that, nothing from the trials will be public. Once deliveries start in 2025, we may get to see info on what is being delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Even so, some of the mine blast video/photos for boxer vs AMV 35 were made public. So never know what will come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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