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Kamov new concept leak

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7 hours ago, Collimatrix said:

Tell us more!

 

Quote

   At the forum Aviabasa several slides were published from the "defence" of the high-speed helicopter project from the Kamov Design Bureau, designed to achieve a maximum speed of 700 km / h.

/.../

Note civilian cargo-passenger modification.

39B6rFcSoLE.jpg

 

Spoiler

hrNzcgDs66U.jpg

 

Uw3C5dt0prE.jpg

 

kukAv-P59n8.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, Belesarius said:

What evidence do you have to back that statement up?

 

 

This technology is just too complicated for Russia. Even US new "future rotorcrafts" are relatively simple. BTW, such fake news are typical for Russian media.

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Kamov is a pretty decent helo company, with a solid history with coaxial rotors.  Compound rotor isn't exactly a new idea. Not exactly bleeding edge tech here either. I think it's something that Kamov could pull off if they had the cash to build the tooling for it.

It's just concept/modelling work. Lots of might have beens that get cancelled for one reason or another.

 

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3 hours ago, VPZ said:

This technology is just too complicated for Russia. Even US new "future rotorcrafts" are relatively simple.

I thought that you had more serious arguments than "it is Russian". 

 

3 hours ago, VPZ said:

BTW, such fake news are typical for Russian media.

Umm.. first screenshots were not released by any media outlet. "Leaks" is a good word.

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23 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

I thought that you had more serious arguments than "it is Russian". 

 

 

Quite reasonable argument. 

 

23 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Umm.. first screenshots were not released by any media outlet. "Leaks" is a good word.

 

Leak? Really? Has someone already been jailed? :D

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49 minutes ago, VPZ said:

Quite reasonable argument. 

   "couse Russia" isn't a reasonable argument. Argument like "There are no company in Russia that produce avoinics good enough to make this whole system stable in flight" at least sound reasonable.

 

49 minutes ago, VPZ said:

Leak? Really? Has someone already been jailed? :D

   There is number of secret projects that were discovered through open state portal/site of purchases and it was open for years. I don't think that bad photo of a piece of PowerPoint slideshow and a guy staring at his mobile phone while facepalming is a level of deception of our media. They are way to bad to do something that real/casual looking.

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23 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

   "couse Russia" isn't a reasonable argument. Argument like "There are no company in Russia that produce avoinics good enough to make this whole system stable in flight" at least sound reasonable.

 

 

The thing is that if the world leader in aircraft - USA, isn't going to develop such vehicle, than Russia can't develop it too. Of course, you may believe in anything you want. I have already read such BS as articles about Russia developing 6th generation fighter (despite the fact, that it hasn't ended developing of 5th gen), so I can't believe anything I read.

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5 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

The thing is that if the world leader in aircraft - USA, isn't going to develop such vehicle, than Russia can't develop it too.

Um... US currently isn't developing rifles based on Dragunov's MA, does this mean that Russia can't do it? Moreover, we don't know if this helicopter is NIR or OKR type of work.

 

6 minutes ago, VPZ said:

I have already read such BS as articles about Russia developing 6th generation fighter (despite the fact, that it hasn't ended developing of 5th gen), so I can't believe anything I read.

   I quoted on this forum Yuri Borisov's words about that, they are not developing 6th gen planes. I don't know what kind of "medias" you watch/read, but in military field a lot of them are crap anyway, not only in Russia. 

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41 minutes ago, LoooSeR said:

Um... US currently isn't developing rifles based on Dragunov's MA, does this mean that Russia can't do it? Moreover, we don't know if this helicopter is NIR or OKR type of work.

 

   I quoted on this forum Yuri Borisov's words about that, they are not developing 6th gen planes. I don't know what kind of "medias" you watch/read, but in military field a lot of them are crap anyway, not only in Russia. 

 

As I said, you may believe in miracles.

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2 hours ago, VPZ said:

 

As I said, you may believe in miracles.

   I don't believe in miracles, i do believe that some work is done on this project (or similar) in Kamov with completely unknown potential result and unknown result/outcome that were intended/expected by those who work on it. Thats why i mentioned that we don't know if it is NIR or OKR, which are different type of R&D, with first being more like "let's see if it works at all", and OKR being "let's make a vehicle according to those requirements".

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Sorry to interrupt, but does the VPZ gentleman understands that Kamov was hired to design a helicopter for China that had "no analogue in the world Russian military" and that the computational design was BETTER (that's an understatement) than the Rooivalk the Chinese were trying to get from RSAF? 

If that helicopter could have been developed in conjunction, today there's a fat chance Rosvertol would be selling it like hot cakes. 

This is a cautionary tale when it comes to Kamov (and Russia) in matter of military development. 

 

Also the whole the US doesn't produce is, how can Russia do it, is absurd. 

The US took 16 years to conceptualize a decent short range AA asset which in return became the butt of all memes. It was until 1996 stuck with an ATGM that weighed as much as a Konkurs with a third of the range and .8 hit probability. 

We can align such examples for a long while to explain why your position is pure non-sense. 

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16 hours ago, XhaxhiEnver said:

It was until 1996 stuck with an ATGM that weighed as much as a Konkurs with a third of the range and .8 hit probability.

 

Do tell more, especially about the weight. (about the M47 Dragon right?)

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On 12/5/2018 at 5:20 PM, VPZ said:

The thing is that if the world leader in aircraft - USA, isn't going to develop such vehicle, than Russia can't develop it too. Of course, you may believe in anything you want. I have already read such BS as articles about Russia developing 6th generation fighter (despite the fact, that it hasn't ended developing of 5th gen), so I can't believe anything I read.

I'm not going to quote everything you said, but you're quite misinformed.

 

1. Jet engines on helicopters are a reality. Take a look at this one for example:

ch-53-1999416b3guys.jpg

 

This helicopter is Sikorsky's Absolute Chad 69, unofficially known as "CH-53". What are those things sticking from its sides?

 

2. Russia definitely CAN develop such things. The isolation during the cold war mostly hindered Russia's progress in computer technology. In some areas it was a decade behind, if not more. But in aviation? Nope. It could consistently put up a match to the west.

 

3. This is an iteration of the "compound helicopter" concept, except the rear engines are jet engines, and not a smaller rotor as you'd see for example on the S-97 (and its larger cousins SB>1 Defiant light/medium):

maxresdefault.jpg

 

4. It seems a lot of your arguments are based on the assumption that Russia is all about propaganda. Believe me, I see Russia's classic propaganda efforts every day. On TV mostly (yes, I still watch Russian TV). But in every lie there's a bit of truth. When it comes to military hardware, they're usually not outright lying, but telling half truths and greatly exaggerating it. 

So when they come out with some new piece of hardware, they may come with an announcement that it's some world beating stuff that "has no analogues anywhere" for the domestic audience, but they're not going to make a paper tiger. It's still going to be something that they build with the intent to match an opponent's hardware, and will rightfully believe in its capabilities, even if they exaggerate it on TV.

 

This greatly exaggerated hardware has proven itself over and over again to be capable in its own right. So it's important to both point out the propaganda, but at the same time acknowledging that propaganda is not the entire essence of it. It's a byproduct.

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2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

This helicopter is Sikorsky's Absolute Chad 69, unofficially known as "CH-53".

 

Attack helicopters are smaller, aren't they?

 

2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

The isolation during the cold war

 

LOL, actually USSR wasn't so isolated.

 

2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

But in aviation? Nope. It could consistently put up a match to the west.

 

Russia is definitely not the first in aviation. Civil aircraft sucks, and still there is no even semi-stealth aircraft.

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20 minutes ago, VPZ said:

 

Attack helicopters are smaller, aren't they?

 

How is the size of the aircraft relevant to the concept? Russia has built many different helicopters. Small and big alike.

 

20 minutes ago, VPZ said:

LOL, actually USSR wasn't so isolated.

 

Which if it was true, would actually defeat your argument. 

 

20 minutes ago, VPZ said:

Russia is definitely not the first in aviation. Civil aircraft sucks, and still there is no even semi-stealth aircraft.

 

I'm going to need an explanation on the "civil aircraft sucks" theory, and a further explanation on why the lack of in-service stealth aircraft is a factor in this debate.

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18 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Which if it was true, would actually defeat your argument. 

 

Of course it is true. For example, Soviet cars was copies of American and European. So, soviets could buy foreign technologies, if not from USA, than from Europe.

 

18 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

How is the size of the aircraft relevant to the concept?

 

IMO, this hypothetical helicopter is too small for having turbofan engines.

Anyway, you may believe and wait for release of this chopper from the cartoon.

 

18 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

I'm going to need an explanation on the "civil aircraft sucks" theory,

 

SSJ

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1 hour ago, VPZ said:

 

SSJ

   In which way?

 

1 hour ago, VPZ said:

 

IMO, this hypothetical helicopter is too small for having turbofan engines.

Anyway, you may believe and wait for release of this chopper from the cartoon.

 

It is a proposal with 3d model representing concept, not actual vehicle.

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