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US Politics Thread: Year 2 of 1000 of the TrumpenReich

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9 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

It's also funny lefties think throwing out bs  like 'walls don't work' is very convincing to your average American, who can come up with all kinds of places walls work.

 

 

I always think it's funny how many of the righties love to use the "your average american agrees with me" argument even when the data says that is clearly not the case.

 

69% of Americans Don’t Think Trump's Border Wall Is a Priority, Poll Says

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31 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I'm pretty sure the wall is Trump's issue.  

 

I'm pretty sure that bringing up a spending bill that would get passed is something Pelosi has decided not to do.

 

I also wonder if any federal worker who isn't getting a paycheck during the shutdown and voted for a Democrat in the House is realizing the significance of their choice.

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2 minutes ago, Ramlaen said:

 

I'm pretty sure that refusing to bring up a spending bill that would get passed is something Pelosi has decided not to do.

 

I also wonder if any federal worker who isn't getting a paycheck during the shutdown and voted for a Democrat in the House is realizing the significance of their choice.

 

Again, refer to exhibit A.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I always think it's funny how many of the righties love to use the "your average american agrees with me" argument even when the data says that is clearly not the case.

 

69% of Americans Don’t Think Trump's Border Wall Is a Priority, Poll Says

 

 Like always, you missed the point, or are you saying Democrats are not running around claiming walls are immoral while living behind them. 

 

See, the point was, it's silly to claim, walls don't work, or are stupid, or immoral, when you know damn well that's all bullshit, or should.  Rich Liberals like walls. 

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40 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 Like always, you missed the point, or are you saying Democrats are not running around claiming walls are immoral while living behind them. 

 

See, the point was, it's silly to claim, walls don't work, or are stupid, or immoral, when you know damn well that's all bullshit, or should.  Rich Liberals like walls. 

And armed security.

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7 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I always think it's funny how many of the righties love to use the "your average american agrees with me" argument even when the data says that is clearly not the case.

 

69% of Americans Don’t Think Trump's Border Wall Is a Priority, Poll Says

The studies is a bit small, roughly 1000+ people. No information on where the study was conducted. More heavy on democrats (33%) compared to republicans (27%), more heavy on woman than men (51%). 

Though, it is defiantly more accurate than simply guessing. I think a bigger study should be done, with at least 1 million, to narrow down the error margin. Though I assume the results would be the same or very similar. 

 

The study kind of confuses me, it actually says 52% of voters disapprove how trump is handling the immigration policy.  But 53% of voters approve how he is handling border security. Though most voters (49%) think that the wall is not a immediate priority for the congress. 49%. 

56% of voters believe that trump should comprise on the wall, to stop the gridlock. 

 

Note, that pretty much all these opinions can be flipped with the 4,2% error margin.  Except the wall comprise to avoid gridlock. 

 

Source:
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_Immigration_1812051721.pdf#page=3

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10 hours ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 Like always, you missed the point, or are you saying Democrats are not running around claiming walls are immoral while living behind them. 

 

See, the point was, it's silly to claim, walls don't work, or are stupid, or immoral, when you know damn well that's all bullshit, or should.  Rich Liberals like walls. 

 

There is no point to miss.  Yes, walls exist and people have them.  No one is arguing that walls, as a basic concept, are wrong or useless.  That's a straw man you just threw out there and a pretty dishonest way to argue. The issue at hand is whether or not it's worth spending billions of dollars on building a "big beautiful" wall on the Southern Boarder of the USA to solve the issue of illegal immigration.  Seeing as the majority of illegal immigrants enter the US legally and then overstay their visa, I don't see how the wall changes that at all.  We already have a significant amount of barriers on the Southern Boarder and drug cartels have tunnelled under them.  Anyhow, the majority of drugs enter the US through legal points of entry hidden in legal cargo.  Building the wall would require significant use of emminent domain to take private property, something I am generally not in favor of (a sentiment many conservatives share).  The wall is a poor solution to the problem of boarder security.  

 

Anyhow, Trump could have had $25 billion for his wall if he had given the Democrats what they wanted on DACA.  You know, he could have made a deal, something he claims to be good at.  And if he really wanted the wall or thought it was important, he would have taken that deal.  But like I said in an earlier post, what he really wants is the political fight over the wall so he can look tough in the eyes of his base.  The wall is just a political talking point for him.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Xoon said:

The studies is a bit small, roughly 1000+ people. No information on where the study was conducted. More heavy on democrats (33%) compared to republicans (27%), more heavy on woman than men (51%). 

Though, it is defiantly more accurate than simply guessing. I think a bigger study should be done, with at least 1 million, to narrow down the error margin. Though I assume the results would be the same or very similar. 

 

The study kind of confuses me, it actually says 52% of voters disapprove how trump is handling the immigration policy.  But 53% of voters approve how he is handling border security. Though most voters (49%) think that the wall is not a immediate priority for the congress. 49%. 

56% of voters believe that trump should comprise on the wall, to stop the gridlock. 

 

Note, that pretty much all these opinions can be flipped with the 4,2% error margin.  Except the wall comprise to avoid gridlock. 

 

Source:
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_Immigration_1812051721.pdf#page=3

 

Regardless, it shows that "the average American" is pretty split on the issue.  This contradicts Jeeps previous claim that "the Average American" wants the wall.  

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Imagine you own a piece of property.  Now, imagine your neighbor has some animals that like to wander into your yard.  Sometimes trash blows from your neighbors yard into your property.  You think to yourself, I should probably get a fence.  And along comes Don.  Don is a fence builder.  He wants to be the one to build your fence, and unlike the other fence contractors, he promises that he will get your neighbor to pay for it.  So you sign a contract with Don.  After two years of delay, no money has come from your neighbor and Don has not built anything.  He now comes to you and says that you have to pay for the fence, and if you don't, he will cut off your water and electricity.  That's pretty much how I see this situation.

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4 minutes ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Regardless, it shows that "the average American" is pretty split on the issue.  This contradicts Jeeps previous claim that "the Average American" wants the wall.  

 

lol Let me help you, since you're having so much trouble with this, the average American know when a politician says a "wall is immoral" after they voted for one in the past, they are full of shit. It's just as dumb when they say one won't work when everyone knows walls works.  Arguing against the obvious just makes people look stupid or dishonest.  Sure, you probably haven't watched the video montages of all the Democrats crying for a wall too, but they are out there, even Obama was pro wall at one point. 

 

I predict you will now claim a fence is different or some other bullshit politicians say. 

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2 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

lol Let me help you, since you're having so much trouble with this, the average American know when a politician says a "wall is immoral" after they voted for one in the past, they are full of shit. It's just as dumb when they say one won't work when everyone knows walls works.  Arguing against the obvious just makes people look stupid or dishonest.  Sure, you probably haven't watched the video montages of all the Democrats crying for a wall too, but they are out there, even Obama was pro wall at one point. 

 

I predict you will now claim a fence is different or some other bullshit politicians say. 

 

Wheels work.  Everyone knows this.  The Czar tank had wheels.  Therefore, the Czar tank worked and should have been built in large numbers.

 

That's the logical core of your argument.

 

300px-Tsar_tank.jpg

 

 

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Here's my idea for the US.  Make E-verify of SSNs mandatory.  E-verify, from my understanding, is available for SSNs, but not mandatory. Impose Multi-million dollar fines for any business caught using illegals as labor. Add biometric verification to the SSN card to improve it's security.

I think that would be a good start.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Belesarius said:

Here's my idea for the US.  Make E-verify of SSNs mandatory.  E-verify, from my understanding, is available for SSNs, but not mandatory. Impose Multi-million dollar fines for any business caught using illegals as labor. Add biometric verification to the SSN card to improve it's security.

I think that would be a good start.

 

 

 

 

A good idea and it's been proposed, but most Democrats politicians, and a large number of Republicans do not like it. The American People, both parties, for the most part, would be happy with such law.  Politicians being way out of step with the American people is what brought us, Trump. 

 

There is an actual security issue on the southern border, drugs, humans, and guns are run across it all the time. A wall isn't just about immigration. 

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11 minutes ago, Jeeps_Guns_Tanks said:

 

 

A good idea and it's been proposed, but most Democrats politicians, and a large number of Republicans do not like it. The American People, both parties, for the most part, would be happy with such law.  Politicians being way out of step with the American people is what brought us, Trump. 

 

There is an actual security issue on the southern border, drugs, humans, and guns are run across it all the time. A wall isn't just about immigration. 

 

Canada can say the same thing about the US. :P 

 

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15 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

I'm pretty sure the wall is Trump's issue.  

It's not the "issue" of any  single administration, it's been ongoing for decades.

There was a stink when Clinton put "deterrent walls" up in the areas of easy crossing, forcing illegals to do silly shit like "hike across the Barry Goldwater gunnery range".

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3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

Regardless, it shows that "the average American" is pretty split on the issue.  This contradicts Jeeps previous claim that "the Average American" wants the wall.  

I am not arguing against it, it was just a study seemed a bit poor in my eyes. 

 

I have a small insane theory about the wall. 

The wall is made by steel pillars. American steel. 

Trump has talked a lot about restoring the domestic steel industry, and for example introduced tariffs. 

 

Could the wall/fence be a mega project initiated to help grow the american steel industry? 

As a "Casus Belli", they would use the ongoing migrant crisis to justify the mega project. 

 

I find this idea intriguing, and it almost justifies the fence in my eyes, though I would like a proper study on the cost/benefits first before making a proper decision. 

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How about this? Let's stop spending billions of dollars on welfare for illegal aliens who haven't even paid into the system to begin with. We need to both disincentivize them from coming here, and giving them a good reason to leave. Make legal immigration and naturalization the path of least resistance. Also, end motor voter bullshit and introduce strong voter ID laws. But that will never happen.

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10 minutes ago, Ulric said:

How about this? Let's stop spending billions of dollars on welfare for illegal aliens who haven't even paid into the system to begin with. We need to both disincentivize them from coming here, and giving them a good reason to leave. Make legal immigration and naturalization the path of least resistance. Also, end motor voter bullshit and introduce strong voter ID laws. But that will never happen.

Do you not need a valid SSN to claim welfare?

 

Edit: gotta go after the companies that give them jobs then. That's gotta happen or nothing will be accomplished.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ulric said:

How about this? Let's stop spending billions of dollars on welfare for illegal aliens who haven't even paid into the system to begin with. We need to both disincentivize them from coming here, and giving them a good reason to leave. Make legal immigration and naturalization the path of least resistance. Also, end motor voter bullshit and introduce strong voter ID laws. But that will never happen.

Do a DNA test on all US born children and legal immigrants and store it in a national database. Also store their thumb print. So when you need to access health care, you scan your thumb, for the more expensive procedures and/or when you have ripped off all your fingers, do a DNA test. 

 

This would solve parental fraud, and give a surefire way to identify if a individual is accepted to health care or not. Else their own health insurance will cover it, or given the bill directly. 

It would also make police work much easier with a complete data base of all american citizen's DNA. 

 

To differentiate out refugee children from a adult, use the proven tooth analysis. To rank how much help a refugee needs, rank their country by how bad it is, which can be voted on electronically by US citizen, if they feel Yemeni refugees has it worse than Syrian refugees. 

 

For normal immigration, do a cost analysis on how much the country would earn from the said individual and shave off from  the top.  A immigrant would have to give up full education, work experience, family situation, criminal records and so fourth. If they give lacking or dubious information, rank them lower. 

 

A young experienced English civil engineer with no family and a clean record would obliviously be more cost efficient than a old Sudanese unemployed war criminal with 6 babies and a wife, plus grandparents and relatives. 

First of, a younger person, with a full education is a lot more cost effective than a old (50+) person because of health costs and work efficiency on average, experienced further increases this. Then the person in question being English means they do not require any language education, and very little cultural conversion. A Pole would need to learn English, and even if he does, he would need to learn the engineering lingu in the US.  A Englishman could also much easily adapt to the american values, than say a Sudanese or Norwegian. Having no family also means no factoring in the cost of having the family immigrate with the person at a later date. The criminal record is obvious, no one wants a war criminal. 

 

This would all be handled by algorithmic software with certain modifiers, then accepted by the immigration office. For example, say your country has a very high gender imbalance, like Sweden, then you would try to have more woman immigrate compared to men. Same if you need more mechanical engineers instead of electrical engineers, or simply more welders. 

 

This way, people would be have less negative opinions about the immigrants, since they were the best in their class. It would put many anti-immigrant movements at ease, since they know that the process is done to benefit them the most. 

 

But honestly though, I don't get why trump likes Norwegians over say, swedes or Englishmen. 

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3 hours ago, Belesarius said:

Do you not need a valid SSN to claim welfare?

 

Edit: gotta go after the companies that give them jobs then. That's gotta happen or nothing will be accomplished.

 

 

This will never happen. Said companies contribute far too much to politicians.  (Or are in part/wholly owned by them ).

 

There is far too much money to be made by perpetuating illegal immigration, to allow it to be solved.

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4 hours ago, Ulric said:

How about this? Let's stop spending billions of dollars on welfare for illegal aliens who haven't even paid into the system to begin with. We need to both disincentivize them from coming here, and giving them a good reason to leave. Make legal immigration and naturalization the path of least resistance. Also, end motor voter bullshit and introduce strong voter ID laws. But that will never happen.

 

The costs to the American tax payer caused by illegal immigration is actually pretty hard to measure.  That said, many of these immigrants pay taxes while being ineligable for most government assistance.  

 

Wiki has a pretty good rundown of the ecomonic impact.

 

Professor of Law Francine Lipman writes that the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false".[43] Lipman asserts that "illegal immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services" and "contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs."

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3 hours ago, Walter_Sobchak said:

 

The costs to the American tax payer caused by illegal immigration is actually pretty hard to measure.  That said, many of these immigrants pay taxes while being ineligable for most government assistance.  

 

Wiki has a pretty good rundown of the ecomonic impact.

 

Professor of Law Francine Lipman writes that the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false".[43] Lipman asserts that "illegal immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services" and "contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs."

 

Well, fuck it, open borders and universal healthcare then! Why the fuck not! Who needs nation states anymore these days anyways. 

 

Why is it so goddamn hard to ask people to follow the fucking law? Because everytime someone suggests that we actually obey the rules that we have set out, some fucking retard pops out of the woodwork talking out of their ass with shit like "achtusualliey, it's a good thing that we have a shit load of people in our country illegally, they are net contributors!" Nice job referencing Wikipedia, and collage professors are always correct and never have a liberal bias. But I'm just a racist bigot, you know, I'll go drag my knuckles off back to the boonies where I belong.

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